Ladies SP

[ks777]

In terms of basics, I think Caroline is mediocre to average, especially considering the level she's skating at. In this competition alone, Rochette, Kostner, Vähämaa and Takeda are just some of the skaters who have better skating skills that Caroline (not to say Caroline doesn't have her strengths, because she does). I think her lack of speed and ice coverage was also particularly noticeable because she skated after Joannie, who was very fast and had great ice coverage. Even though Caroline's spiral positions were fabulous and better than Joanie's, Rochette had a much ice coverage and speed during them.

I don't know if Takeda has better skating skills than Zhang.

 

[hrmsk8ngnutt]

Just watched Caro's program. I wonder if she hadn't finished her spiral sequence when she fell as it looked like she was about to take another spiral position. Also, that fall must have hurt. On the double axel, she didn't even complete the roataion - I think she came out forward. Can't wait for the protocol to come out to see how everything was scored.

Regarding Caroline's program: Good for her for tacking the double toe after the triple loop.

Fumie looked good. Alissa also looked good despite her errors.

Too bad Cynthia fell on the flip, but at least she tried it after popping the lutz.

Except for the turn-out on the combo, Joannie performed her program very well and she seems comfortable with it. I am somewhat disappointed with it because on the initial view I am not crazy about the version of Summertime used. I also think the costume is a bit too ornate for the music. I would prefer a simple, flowy white dress. But that's just MOHO.

 

[Spun Silver]

So far I think Fumie was beautiful and her music, costume and program all went together perfectly. She hit the music, which I appreciate.

Caroline looks different - taller, longer-waisted. Maybe that's throwing her off? She was not exciting but her closing spin was exquisite.

Alyssa: gorgeous apart from the fall. She is just ... alluring. Perfect program for her and she didn't overdo the bird bit.

Joannie's program wasn't all as fabulous as that first jump, but she skated well. I was hoping for choreography more attuned to Gershwin; the screechy arrangement didn't help. (I'm not a Grappelli fan.)The footwork was my favorite part. And she's beautiful!

PS: I see I have some company in my reaction to the music!

 

[feraina]

She's still coming to a stop? (Caroline's 2A)

Well, she slowed down a lot on her take-off left outside edge. But I think her 2A is actually better than last year's National's & JW, and also a little better than GW in the summer, in the sense that she had more speed on the right backward outside edge, before stepping into the 2A.

But really I think mostly she looked very nervous and lacking in confidence/energy. She didn't skate with any conviction or joy.

 

[feraina]

Feraina was right again about Caroline's step sequence. Fantastick.

You remembered what I said after Golden West? Actually, it was better at GW. There, she had more speed and spark throughout the sequence and she hit the little ballet hops near the beginning more precisely, and the final third starting with the low sit-spin was breath-taking and really built in excitement. Everyone was clapping by the end of that sequence at GW. So I think she definitely has it in her to do a "wow" footwork sequence.

I hope this was just a nervy first performance of the season for her, and now she will get all of that anxiety out of her system and skate to her full potential with freedom and joy!

 

[Medusa]

So far I think Fumie was beautiful and her music, costume and program all went together perfectly. She hit the music, which I appreciate.

I also think that the program has huge potential. She seemed very concentrated on the elements, but that will hopefully disappear later. But I liked how she moved to the music, I also liked the footwork (did Morosov choreograph that program? it seemed very unflaily), the music is quite powerful. This could be a great program for her (lucky Japanese... Asada, Ando, Suzuki, Nakano, Suguri...).

I am no fan of Kostner but I feel for her. The Triple Toe at the end of the combo was downgraded (German Eurosport guys told us so), the Lutz obviously double footed, I don't know about the Axel-attempt, but it didn't look fully rotated to me. When I saw the deductions I thought at first that she fell again on Lutz and Flip - but she had some freak mistakes / accidents in that program.

Zhang and Czisny are two very pretty and bendy US-American princesses who fulfil this image completely and without any originality. Both were slow, Czisny has great spiral positions, but the spiral was actually wobbly. The Eurosport guys were criticising Zhang for the exact same things some people on the board criticise her for: mule-kick (which was quite prominent again), strange 2A. I enjoyed Zhang's very creative footwork though, someone put a lot of thought into that and she executed it quite well.

But I loved to see the Canadian Lady out there, skating to her full potential. Good musicality, great speed, ok-jumps, nice edging...

 

[shine]

Joannie's program wasn't all as fabulous as that first jump, but she skated well. I was hoping for choreography more attuned to Gershwin; the screechy arrangement didn't help. (I'm not a Grappelli fan.)The footwork was my favorite part. And she's beautifu

Really? But I'm already loving it after a few viewings

 

[AdamFan]

Caroline is mentioned as having weak skating skills. Besides being slow and not necessarily getting the same ice coverage as other skaters (usually related to being slower), which of her skills are noticeably weak? She seems to have very good edge control. I actually find her to be slightly too stiff out there (especially with her core and upper body) which may contribute to her lack of speed.

 

[gold12345]

As bad as I feel for CaroK, how is it even possible that she gets the highest PCS of the day with not a single clean jump and falls all over the place?

Well, I'm sure the judges did not want to dip her too far in the standings. The PCS had to be high to make up for her low TES.

In my opinion, she's awkward and always scores too high, but oh well.

 

[feraina]

I haven't seen the detailed protocols, but I'm thinking that it's possible Caroline got a level 1 on her spiral sequence because she might not have held the first part of her COE for 3 seconds, otherwise that was a good spiral sequence if not her very best -- CoP is kinda stupid in that if that first spiral (I think the one that's not hand-held?) is not held for 3 seconds, it's automatically level 1 (whereas for other spirals I think you only lose one level). That might explain why Caroline scored so low even though all her jumps were ratified (I think).

Oh, icenetwork already has an article up, it has the following to say about Caroline:

The 15-year-old didn't make any other significant errors but was unhappy that she earned lower difficulty levels than planned on the combination spin and her footwork.

So she did get low levels on some of the non-jump elements. Well, she didn't spin as fast as usual, which might've meant that not all her positions were counted.

There is no mention of Carolina Kostner's injury, so if she does/did have one, she must've not made much of it in the press conference.

 

[Mathman]

On CBC, Tracey Wilson and Kurt Browning roundly criticized Caroline Zhang as looking like she didn't belong out there skating with the big girls. Kurt said her jump technique absolutely must be fixed, even if that means basically taking two years off to redo it from scratch, like Joannie Rochette did.

About the PCSs, I noticed that every skater except Kostner got lower scores in transitions than in anything else. I guess something has to be sacrificed, and transitions seems to be the first to go.

Joannie was great. She got 7+ in performance/execution, choreography and interpretation. I agree.

Fumie was competent.

Otherwise...seriously, what is happening to our sport?

I wonder what would happen if a skater came along and did only jumps that she can actually do. Would she win every event, being the last girl standing?

 

[Andalusia]

Caroline is mentioned as having weak skating skills. Besides being slow and not necessarily getting the same ice coverage as other skaters (usually related to being slower), which of her skills are noticeably weak? She seems to have very good edge control. I actually find her to be slightly too stiff out there (especially with her core and upper body) which may contribute to her lack of speed.

It's probably just me, but I don't notice the extraordinary slowness everyone else talks about. Sure, she is slower than most others, but I don't exactly find that she's walking out there on the ice. What I don't get about Caroline is that she can be faster - just look up some of her exhibitions to get a whiff of that. She's just not bringing the speed in competition. Her spiral is capable of being sure and almost Kwan-like in its edge control, much unlike how it was performed in her SC SP.

It's a shame about her issues - this program has the potential to be a masterpiece if she could skate it with conviction and speed.

 

[fiercemao]

Joannie's program is blah... Not as good as her past programs.

Caroline Zhang's spins were getting slow, very strange.

 

[emma]

I unfortunately don't get CBC - but for those that watched, what did you think of the comments by Kurt that Mathman mentioned - the ones about Zhang looking like she didn't belong...I'm really curious, I saw the YouTube and wondered if she were a) nervous, b) sick (Iike with a cold or flu), but didn't get the impression that she was so awful as to 'not belong' (especially compared to what I read of the rest of the comp).

I like Rochette. I'm glad she skated well, and although the Youtube wasn't so clear, I liked the dress (as I could see it); the music, a little grating on the nerves, but I think this is a good program for her.

Haven't seen Suguri yet.

 

[ChrisH]

Wow, the judges were brutal to Nana Takeda on PCS. 19.28 vs. 28.04 for Joannie.

Well, she slowed down a lot on her take-off left outside edge. But I think her 2A is actually better than last year's National's & JW, and also a little better than GW in the summer, in the sense that she had more speed on the right backward outside edge, before stepping into the 2A.

ITA with that after seeing her 2A on YouTube. What's more important and very good news to me is that Caroline appeared better rotated on all of her jumps. She had room to spare. Of course I'd like it if she jumped a little higher too. With regards to her fall on the 3F, I think that she wasn't leaning forward enough. Her air position at World Juniors was leaning slightly forwards. Well, we'll have a better idea after the LP.

You remembered what I said after Golden West? Actually, it was better at GW. There, she had more speed and spark throughout the sequence and she hit the little ballet hops near the beginning more precisely, and the final third starting with the low sit-spin was breath-taking and really built in excitement. Everyone was clapping by the end of that sequence at GW. So I think she definitely has it in her to do a "wow" footwork sequence.

So fantaaastiiic.

The move where she did this (currently picture 4 of 7) was pretty good too. :agree:


I think Caroline did hold her spiral positions long enough. She just didn't have enough speed and so didn't cover the entire ice surface like usual.

After seeing Caroline's very good footwork sequence, I don't mind her lack of speed elsewhere that much. She obviously can skate faster. I might agree with Groshkova about Caroline being too stiff with her core and upper body preventing her having enough speed. I'd like to see her lean into her accelerations more.

 

[chuckm]

That was a good score for Joannie, but I don't think she should expect to get as good a score the next time for that particular performance. The judges seemed to ignore the LONG pause after the 3F and then the step out before the 2T. Only on home ice could that skate get 60+ points.

 

[ChrisH]

I unfortunately don't get CBC - but for those that watched, what did you think of the comments by Kurt that Mathman mentioned - the ones about Zhang looking like she didn't belong...

I didn't watch CBC either, but I think that they're very odd comments considering how the other ladies skated. It's not like Caroline was following Yu-Na and Mao's best SPs. Too much homerism. Joannie was good, but not that good. And did they eat their words after Carolina skated?


BTW, the ladies SPs are now up for on demand viewing at the icenetwork.

 

[flying camel]

I think the nerves just got to Caroline. I hope she comes back in the long. She is our best bet to medal. Poor Alissa! She is just not a skater who enjoys the spotlight. I think that is why she skated so well in those competitions that don't get a lot of press. I don't have much hope for Bebe either. Will any American lady skate a clean SP & LP in the GP??? I'm worried!

 

[LKR722]

On CBC, Tracey Wilson and Kurt Browning roundly criticized Caroline Zhang as looking like she didn't belong out there skating with the big girls. Kurt said her jump technique absolutely must be fixed, even if that means basically taking two years off to redo it from scratch, like Joannie Rochette did.

I agree with Kurt. I feel like Caroline will always have trouble with consistency on the flip and lutz if she does not correct that high leg kick. I watched the SP on the ice network and her leg was kicked so high her body looked parallel to the ice(almost like a backward spiral position). I fear for her hips the way she is taking off on the loop jump and she needs to work on her axel technique too. She needs alot more power in her stroking to gain speed. I actually think the lack of speed/power in her skating is what will hold her back the most if it not improved significantly. I don't mean to be tearing her down because I love her spins, spirals, and neat footwork(I loved her straight line FW in the short today). I think she has displayed great artistry on the ice in the past. She already has so many terrific qualities and is still young with time to work on her jumping technique.

 

[flying camel]

Well maybe she just went back to her old way of skating since she seemed nervous. Because the last interview I read of her she talked about how she worked on her techique over the summer and her speed. I know she can't fix all her problems in one season but there should have been some improvement that we can see.