Let the V&M, B&A and D&S (squared) comparisons begin!

[chuckm]

Anyone know what the ISU does to protect the computer? While I think that corrupt judging is as likely under CoP as it was under the old system (actually, do the protection of anonymity, I think it more likely), but a surer way of fixing results is hacking the computer. If so, B/A and V/M can tie for gold in 2010.

LOL!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Additonally, not every Uzbek has a Russian ethnic heritage. And I'd think someone who didn't would be extremely insulted by your assumption.

I don't know of any Muslim judges from Uzbekistan or some other Siberian states that have judges.

America within in itself is very ethnic but it does not have ethnic American judges in other countries.

Joe

 

[oxade21]

I don't know of any Muslim judges from Uzbekistan or some other Siberian states that have judges.

America within in itself is very ethnic but it does not have ethnic American judges in other countries.

Joe

This is just so offensive??? What does religion has to do with this?

 

[chuckm]

So, according to you those same judges are judging Singles/Pairs/Dance and you for some reason only single out Dance event. I wonder if Absaliamova can assure a win for Arina Martenova too? BTW, Absaliamova is not Russian.

But she judges like a Russian. She was one of two judges (the other was Russian) who gave Irina Slutskaya a 6.0 at Worlds 2002 in the SP. I could see Irina getting a 6.0 in the FS, which was fantastic. But the SP was nothing special.

Anyway, ARM and Absaliamova isn't on any other panel except the Ice Dance, so she can't help Martinova. I don't think ANYONE can help Martinova.

Kireeva (AZE) isn't on any other panel, either. But Rohkin (UZB) is on Pairs as well as Ice Dance.

 

[oxade21]

But she judges like a Russian. She was one of two judges (the other was Russian) who gave Irina Slutskaya a 6.0 at Worlds 2002 in the SP. I could see Irina getting a 6.0 in the FS, which was fantastic. But the SP was nothing special.

Anyway, ARM and Absaliamova isn't on any other panel except the Ice Dance, so she can't help Martinova. I don't think ANYONE can help Martinova.

Kireeva (AZE) isn't on any other panel, either. But Rohkin (UZB) is on Pairs as well as Ice Dance.

Well, I am kind of getting tired of this discussion as it is pointless.
I am not going to stop you from exercising in all those theories you have. But I have to say that in such subjective sport like FS there will always be someone who is not happy and tries to look for other explanations. The fandom is good but I do not like it when it takes too sharp nationalistic sentiment like in your case.
In the last three worlds Dostatni headed Dance Technical teams, but I never heard any Russian fans to complain about injustice towards D/S or K/N.
The fact is that North American Dance is just emerging (BTW, thanks to all the Russian coaches who helped it achieve what it did, unfortunately nobody mentions that) and I think it is too early to look for conspiracy theories in this discipline. Besides as I already mentioned Dance is subjective and even more so than any other dicipline, and EVERY Federation is guilty in advancing thier own interests not just Russia. Let's just erase all Russians from the panel, in close call like we usually have in Dance, it is each judges personal tastes that count and I am not sure how are you going to assure that nobody influences the decision. In such situation, you are bound to have something going on behind the curtains, it is just too easy to pass.
What I like about COP is that in contrast to old system, there are other factors that count besides the composition of judging panel, the selection of judges are unpredictible and if even the scenario with 4 Russian judges on the panel occurs one will not count as the highest and lowest scores do not count,and I doubt that 3 judges will make that big of difference unless the whole panel more or less agrees with the result. There is always downgrading by Techs and that makes whole thing even more unpredictable. So I would say it is anyone's game. And only in case of close call there might be a problem. But isn't it always a problem.
Good luck with your watchdog role in fair judging!!!
I am done.

 

[chuckm]

So you're saying it's OK if there are 4 Russian judges on the panel?

Now if it were 4 Canadian judges, or 4 US judges or 4 French judges, would you be as nonchalant about it? I think not. I think you'd be screaming how unfair it was.

The caller can determine the Level of each element, but has no control over the GOE or the PCS. I would not expect a team like DomShabs, B/A or DelShoes to have a major mistake at Worlds. That rarely happens. So the most damage a caller can do is downgrade an element.

The judges can easily make up for that by giving the element a +3 GOE and boosting the PCS scores by 0.25 on each element. There was a lot of boosting of DomShabs at CoC when the judges saw the caller had disallowed the final element.

The caller in Singles and Pairs has a lot more power than the Dance caller, because there are a lot more elements (especially in Singles) and the probability that big mistakes are going to be made by the top level skaters is much, much greater than in ice dance.

 

[oxade21]

So you're saying it's OK if there are 4 Russian judges on the panel?

Now if it were 4 Canadian judges, or 4 US judges or 4 French judges, would you be as nonchalant about it? I think not. I think you'd be screaming how unfair it was.

The caller can determine the Level of each element, but has no control over the GOE or the PCS. I would not expect a team like DomShabs, B/A or DelShoes to have a major mistake at Worlds. That rarely happens. So the most damage a caller can do is downgrade an element.

The judges can easily make up for that by giving the element a +3 GOE and boosting the PCS scores by 0.25 on each element. There was a lot of boosting of DomShabs at CoC when the judges saw the caller had disallowed the final element.

The caller in Singles and Pairs has a lot more power than the Dance caller, because there are a lot more elements (especially in Singles) and the probability that big mistakes are going to be made by the top level skaters is much, much greater than in ice dance.

Well, for the last time there are no Russian judges. There are in your sick mind. But not on the paper.
And you are on ignore list.

 

[slutskayafan21]

So you're saying it's OK if there are 4 Russian judges on the panel?

That is what happens when a large country like the Soviet Union splits up. They get to spread the wealth. It isnt fair but it is one of the inevitable repurcussions of a breakup of a large country. If the States had a breakup they would have a similar benefit perhaps, or even Canada which isnt big population-wise but is area wise. There just isnt much you can do about the situation.

 

[kasiaavery]

Perhaps the title of this thread should be changed.

 

[risto1803]

So you're saying it's OK if there are 4 Russian judges on the panel?

Poor you. I am really sorry for you.

 

[all that]

I don't know of any Muslim judges from Uzbekistan or some other Siberian states that have judges.

America within in itself is very ethnic but it does not have ethnic American judges in other countries.

Joe

??? You've got my point backwards. Here's what you said originally:

As an example: An Uzbekistan judge is ethnically Russian, and he will favor a competitor from Uzbekistan, but if there is no Uzbekistani in the competition, he will draw from his ethnic past.

So I asked you why you thought an American judge who is ethnically Italian wouldn't favor an Italian skater if no American skater is present.

And I also don't see why you're bringing religion into this.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

??? You've got my point backwards. Here's what you said originally:



So I asked you why you thought an American judge who is ethnically Italian wouldn't favor an Italian skater if no American skater is present.

And I also don't see why you're bringing religion into this.

Let's cool this. You have your ethnic Russians in the different countries and you are happy with that. I'm not unhappy with that. I just like to point that out.

I doubt an Italo-American judge would score Carolina higher than Caroline.but you may be correct. Americans are very individualistic.

As to religion, I was just questioning the native Uzbecs who are ethnically different from the USSR implants.

Joe

 

[ManyCairns]

Judges' Nationalities

Thanks for doing an incredible amount of legwork in researching all that, Chuckm!

Your points were backed up by empirical evidence, not just assertions that there are/are not judging biases. Nice job!