Mao or Stephane?

[anything_for_skating]

The issue is...

Give me some men
Who are stout-hearted men

and who don't get their butts whipped by a 15-year-old girl.

Is this a sport or a beauty contest?

Jump results:

Mao Asada: 52.4
Daisuke Takahashi: 50.1
Jeff Buttle: 47.1
Stephane Lambiel: 46.4
Emanuel Sandhu: 41.7
Takeshi Honda: 38.6
Alexei Yagudin: 22.3

As for the issue of different judging panels, these are the statistics just for jumps. A triple flip is a triple flip, worth 5.5 points in every competition, men or women.

Now with respect to the beauty contest (where judges' preferences might play more of a role), Lambiel, Takahashi, Buttle, Sandhu and Yagudin all got higher PCSs than Mao.

Your mama's rich, and your daddy's good lookin'.

I know it's just a cheesefest, but come on guys -- bring it!

MM

Plusenko missing

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Time to Have One Gold Medalist?

The only sport I know of where Men and Women compete equally is Equestrian. I think Golf allows a lady to compete with the men on occasion and there is that infamous Tennis Match back in the 70s(?). Of course there are Mixed Doubles as there are in figure skating but not singles.

Should we eliminate the gender standings for single competitions and have one winner?.

Joe

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Plusenko missing

Plushenko did not skate. Or maybe I'm missing the point.

 

[attyfan]

Well,

give me some girls
who are stout-hearted girls
and some men who don't whine when they win!
...
.

Go Mao!!!

 

[Skye]

To respond to your post, I would say, first, I don't know how fragile Mao's self-esteem is. Mao did not skate well at junior worlds (in the free skate she singled her triple Axel attempt and also singled her Lutz), but Yu-Na Kim is no slouch herself.

IMHO the surprise of junior worlds was not that Kim came in ahead of Asada, but rather that Christine Zukowski put up such a fine showing to win the bronze.

Mentioning Mao's self-esteem I was regarding the whole Japanese media's uproar over "Mao's defeat" at the Junior Worlds (only to be heated up by Kimmie Meissner's World Championships results) -- but Mao herself might not have been influenced by it at all, as you have suggested. And I am quite sure that though Zukowski pulled off a good fight, unfortunately almost none but the US were taking big interest of her results, due to the huge gap of scores.

Thanks for your warm welcome.

 

[mars]

I think the men are able to score extra 25% because technical requirement is more difficult than womens. The men are require to do a triple axel, while women are only require to do a double axel. In addition to that they have to do a longer program at 4.5 minutes.

 

[gkelly]

Men are not required to do triple axels. The requirement in the senior men's short program is a solo double or triple axel, and in the long program any axel-type jump.

For ladies, double axel is required in the short, and any axel-type jump in the long.

Some men don't have triple axels (but they are not likely to win international medals) and do doubles instead. Some occasionally double them by accident or to play it safe if the triple is not working well that day (including Lambiel on occasion). There's no penalty for doing so, except for the lower base score for the easier jump.

Some ladies (including Asada) do have triple axels.

On *average* the difference in jump content at the highest levels is as described, but there are exceptions, and there are gradations down to the lower senior levels.

The difference in the length of the program and the number of jump passes allowed is true.

 

[Spun Silver]

Thanks for the explanations!!

 

[Tonichelle]

No, I have never put down Lambiel. What possible reason would I have for doing such a thing?

didn't you say you held stock in NBC? I seem to recall that coming into another Lambiel thread because NBC didn't want him to medal and wanted Evan Lysacek to.

I really don't get anything this thread is trying to do, but then again anything dealing with math I don't get lol

 

[gio]

It will be equal when more ladies will do the triple axel and the quad toe, and I don't think this is going to happen soon! At this moment only Mao, Kimmie and Nakano have the 3axel and no girl has the quad.
At their time Midori Ito and Tonya Harding with their jumps could have competed with men.

 

[hockeyfan228]

At their time Midori Ito and Tonya Harding with their jumps could have competed with men.

I agree, because of the power of their jumps as well as their overall technique.

 

[gkelly]

Well, if men and women are going to compete against each other on an even playing field, they'll have to make laybacks and spiral sequences required elements for all.

 

[Mathman]

Well, at least they don't require the competitors to wear skirts any more.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Who were the first figure skaters in the Sport of figure skating? MEN!

Joe

 

[Mathman]

In her book Culture on Ice post-feminist author Ellen Kestnbaum offers this view.

School figures represent the "manly" side of the sport, while free skating is "feminine."

Why? Well, free skating is in the tradition of the submissive lady seeking the favor of the dominant audience by displaying her body.

Figures, on the other hand -- that's macho, because you are "imposing your will on nature" by carving your initials (or whatever) into the ice. :yes:

 

[gio]

In her book Culture on Ice post-feminist author Ellen Kestnbaum offers this view.

School figures represent the "manly" side of the sport, while free skating is "feminine."

Why? Well, free skating is in the tradition of the submissive lady seeking the favor of the dominant audience by displaying her body.

Figures, on the other hand -- that's macho, because you are "imposing your will on nature" by carving your initials (or whatever) into the ice. :yes:

Interesting, but I see figures more of a neutral side of the sport.

This is me but, I don't know why, I always see the lutz and the axel as manly jumps and the loop as an elegant, feminine jump. :scratch:

 

[SeaniBu]

Well, at least they don't require the competitors to wear skirts any more.

Does anyone know why this was a "requirement" in the first place. Pretty silly requirement IMO.

Was this lifted from the SP at the Olys only and where / what was it first lifted - what event?

BTW, this thread topic is awesome, I would now be interested in seeing a Boys vs Girls comp. And not like that totally unfair match up they had for Ice Wars. Just a real comp here in the future would be great to see. No quads and think it could be a little more even. This probably isn't realistic, but as talent keeps coming along like this, it is not all that inconceivable.

 

[Ladskater]

I don't get your point. Mao is a female skater and Stephane is a male skater - never the two shall meet - unless it is in an ice show.

Mao will be up against the female jumpers like Kimmi Meizner the now reining ladies world champion and Stephane - the men's reigning world champion will be up against Pleshenko and the rest of the pack.

Go figure!!!!!

 

[hockeyfan228]

Well, if men and women are going to compete against each other on an even playing field, they'll have to make laybacks and spiral sequences required elements for all.

World Champion: Jamal Othman
Silver Medallist: Shawn Sawyer
Bronze Medallist: Rohene Ward

 

[antmanb]

It will be equal when more ladies will do the triple axel and the quad toe, and I don't think this is going to happen soon! At this moment only Mao, Kimmie and Nakano have the 3axel and no girl has the quad.
At their time Midori Ito and Tonya Harding with their jumps could have competed with men.

But when was the last time Nakano or Kimmie attempted and/or landed the triple axel? I don't think kimmie's tried the triple axel all season.

Ando might come back with her quad salchow, and Mao might start landing the quad loop.

Ant