Mao's new SP!!

[miki88]

1 or 2? I would love to see her skate to no.1 one day. It would certainly be a challenge for anyone, but I think she could manage it.

I prefer no. 2. Both are fabulous though.

agreed, this is also what I observe from the new version. But just from this show, I still much prefer her old version, choreography as well as performance wise. Because, that MAO is the music. Sometimes, you really dont need the added nuance or tried so hard to feel the music. If you are born to do it...In the old version, I see freedom, totally at easy with her skating, soft, quiet and confident, She became the music.
In terms of real nuance/feeling/emotion/maturity, I really like Mao's jupiter ex.

Hmm. I don't feel she is forcing her emotions in the new version. I feel the added feeling is a result of her experiences in recent years and she is feeling the music in a different way. Btw, I also love Jupiter. It is one of her best programs.

 

[aftertherain]

It almost looks like a cheap Yu-na Kim version only with a better layback.

And here goes the inevitable mention.

 

[yyyskate]

... It almost looks like a cheap Yu-na Kim version only with a better layback. ....

you speak my mind:thumbsup:

 

[yuki]

you speak my mind:thumbsup:

Are you people actually serious? What does this program have to do with Yu-na Kim? I'm genuinely curious, btw.

 

[yyyskate]

Are you people actually serious? What does this program have to do with Yu-na Kim? I'm genuinely curious, btw.

just to name a few, the ending pose is very similar to Yuna's les Mis, and the second dress back design is very similar to Yuna's Gershwin. Some of the arm moves are very Yuna, and Mao does not usually do.... just my opinion, do no wanna entice fan war here.

 

[aftertherain]

Are you people actually serious? What does this program have to do with Yu-na Kim? I'm genuinely curious, btw.

She is the standard by which all others are measured, apparently. Even if she hasn't done a Chopin program ... ever.

just to name a few, the ending pose is very similar to Yuna's les Mis, and the second dress back design is very similar to Yuna's Gershwin. Some of the arm moves are very Yuna, and Mao does not usually do.... just my opinion, do no wanna entice fan war here.

The front of Mao's dress is like one of Yukari Nakano's dresses, and Yukari Nakano attempted 3As just like Mao did. Why is no one comparing Mao and Yukari then?

Or it can look like a more simplistic version of one of Meryl Davis's dresses. And Meryl Davis can do a pretty good spiral, just like Mao can. Why no comparisons here?

 

[babyalligator]

back to Mao please people! Yuna is a lovely skater, but having programs share a small number of similar elements is not unusual. There are only so many different ways that one can design a dress. Also, the comparison to the Les Mis program is a far stretch if anything.

 

[chloepoco]

just to name a few, the ending pose is very similar to Yuna's les Mis, and the second dress back design is very similar to Yuna's Gershwin. Some of the arm moves are very Yuna, and Mao does not usually do.... just my opinion, do no wanna entice fan war here.

Surely, you jest?

 

[yuki]

just to name a few, the ending pose is very similar to Yuna's les Mis, and the second dress back design is very similar to Yuna's Gershwin. Some of the arm moves are very Yuna, and Mao does not usually do.... just my opinion, do no wanna entice fan war here.

Yu-na vs Mao

Those ending poses are similar only if you think Yu-na has a monopoly on raising one hand at the end of a program.

 

[babyalligator]

Yu-na vs Mao

Those ending poses are similar only if you think Yu-na has a monopoly on raising one hand at the end of a program.

:thumbsup:

 

[OS]

THIS. And as I read the comments of the nay sayers, they sure have expectations for Mao in a competitive program. I do wonder do you have the same expectations for your favorite skater. Some people here are asking for something that no one has done in a competition. But then I realized for some people Mao could be 100% perfect and they would still find something to complain about.

If you are referring to me as one of the permanent naysayers, I would happily to say this is simply not true. I am perfectly capable to not liking programs even they are from my favorite skaters (Last year was Hanyu and Daisuke, this year unfortunately Hanyu is still stuck on the list for unoriginality) I'd like to think I am generous at handing out praises where I see merit (like her Jupiter exhibition, I was among the firsts on the forum to shower her with praises despite my initial cynicism because I consider the music to be quintessentially British.) I know people have blamed her last Olympic programs for her failure at Olympics, but artistically and musically, she really did a great job that made great personal stride to overcome her own culture and her comfort zone to have won the silver. It is a huge milestone for Japanese ladies skating, high degrees of difficulty both artistically and technically. I'd easily rate her OSM SP superior to this years SP from what little I have seen choreographically.

It is with that in mind, I have been looking forward to her work every season. I do get disappointing when basic things like 'what is music interpretation' get ignored completely just focus getting through the required element as as much as possible, only to be seen visibly relaxed once that is out of the way so can enjoy the footstep sequences (which she is great at) with a big smile as 'herself' every single time. It seems Tat has simply given up on Mao these past few years if I can be honest. There was reasons Tat like to use heavy Russian classical epics (Her Scheherazade lite / sex and the city version is probably as lite as she will go) to push Mao beyond herself. I have a vision that Tat is the sort of bigger than life character (total legend) who is just egotistical enough to impart her swan songs by ensure Grreeat Rrrussian arts lives on in ladies figure skating like what she has done with the mens, and Mao is her protege capable to deliver that vision. What ultimate grand artistic personal achievement would it be if she is able to transform one of the most quietly innocent beautiful skaters from an Asian culture to one of the most passionate emotive celebration of 'Greeaaat Russian' culture. You don't go to Tat and expect mineral water + artificial sweetener/flavor du jour (aka Lori Nichol). You goto Tat to get the full on Vodka premium straight up nazdorovie.

In anycase, I really don't think I am asking a lot. I would just like a choreography that is in sync the music, certainly more than 10% of the time. A performer that can interpret the music or make reference to the source at least once in a while (other than the beginning and the ending). It would be nice to see something different and original but I am not holding my breath (I am realistic to the fact we are in the age of COP) These are such a basic expectation surely.

The thing with art and music is it is never about which one you like more personally, but looking at all its merits (not pre-built) and weakness objectively even it is not to your preference. One interesting question worth asking is if Mao were to compete against herself with this SP against her last Olympics SP, which one do you like better, which one would have won and why. Or how about compare this version to the one 7 years ago. Which is better and would have won and why?

 

[Mathman]

Under CoP scoring, Interpretation of the musics counts for about ten per cent of the total score (Choreography and P&E another ten per cent each). I don't think we can justly blame skaters who push this aspect of their performance into the background.

Some of the greatest performances of all time in this sport could have been skated to any music, like Kim's Les Miz and all of Michelle Kwan's programs after 2002. Setting aside the singular example of John Curry's 1976 Olympic LP, it is hard to think of any performance by anyone that reached even to the knees of the music they were trying to interpret. Indeed, when skaters choose the great masterworks of classical music I often find myself wishing the skater would get off the ice so I can enjoy the music without distraction. (I confess that I sometimes feel the same way at the ballet. )

 

[Mathman]

Yu-na vs Mao

Those ending poses are similar only if you think Yu-na has a monopoly on raising one hand at the end of a program.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: The ending poses are nothing alike. (Mao's is better. But Yuna just blew the roof off the place, so she could had ended with her thumb up her nose and it would still have been a performance for the ages. )

 

[miki88]

The thing with art and music is it is never about which one you like more personally, but looking at all its merits (not pre-built) and weakness objectively even it is not to your preference. One interesting question worth asking is if Mao were to compete against herself with this SP against her last Olympics SP, which one do you like better, which one would have won and why. Or how about compare this version to the one 7 years ago. Which is better and would have won and why?

Compared to her last Olympics SP, this one is miles better. The cut to Masquerade SP was monotonous. Yes, it was more dramatic music but it was dull. The choreography of the revised nocturne isn't as strong as the original one, but it still has lovely moments in it that I can't recall from Masquerade. The only part I really liked about her Masquerade program was the spiral sequence. Even the step sequence, normally a highlight in her programs, was not that memorable. As for performance, I never felt Mao liked this music, unlike say Nocturne or Liebestraume, so it was a bit surprising she chose to skate to it twice. For "Bells", I felt she got more into it towards the latter half of the season when the darkness and despair within the piece began to mirror her own difficulties at the time.

As to which would have won, the favor still leans toward the current one since the judges weren't too crazy about her programs in the previous Olympic season. In my opinion, the collaboration between TAT and Mao works best when there is a compromise between the skater's style and the choreographer's vision. One can see it in the superb exhibitions that she has choreographed for Mao where TAT is clearly pushing Mao artistically but also retaining all of her strengths. Not to put all the blame on TAT because it was a collaboration and Mao chose to skate to programs like "Bells" and "Masquerade" and to some reports, persisted even when TAT recommended that they chose another piece when things weren't going so well. But now she is older and probably knows what suits her best and for her final Olympics, it seems natural to go with the style that works best for her.

 

[aftertherain]

Yu-na vs Mao

Those ending poses are similar only if you think Yu-na has a monopoly on raising one hand at the end of a program.

vs Carolina Kostner.

They now all have something in common. :sarcasm:

Everyone knows that Akiko Suzuki is the Queen of Raising One Hand at the End of a Program.

1. Hungarian Rhapsody
2. Libertango
3. Bellydance
4. Hymne a l'amour

And Mirai Nagasu, Daisuke Takahashi, Joannie Rochette, and Michelle Kwan can do it too!

Oh, and Mao has done it before--with a fan in her hand.

(Sorry, overkill?)

 

[yyyskate]

Of course not. Everyone knows that Akiko Suzuki is the Queen of Raising One Hand at the End of a Program.

1. Hungarian Rhapsody
2. Libertango
3. Bellydance
4. Hymne a l'amour

And Mirai Nagasu, Daisuke Takahashi, Joannie Rochette, and Michelle Kwan can do it too!

Oh, and Mao has done it before--with a fan in her hand.

(Sorry, overkill?)

sorry I didnot state it clear, the similarity is NOT directly ending pose vs ending pose, what I meant is Mao's new nocturne ending pose is very similar to Yuna's les Mis pose at 3:30s in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOw2oY4NZYI les Mis clip, those kinda arm moves are the moves I THINK very yuna, yet MAO usually does not do.
Thank you for posting all these links, I enjoyed watching them. somehow very funny to watch them all at once
mathman, I do NOT agree with you that Yuna's Les Mis can be skated to any music. to me it is one of HER best program in terms of interpretation.
OK, that's enough about Yuna, let's get back to Mao

 

[aftertherain]

sorry I didnot state it clear, the similarity is NOT directly ending pose vs ending pose, what I meant is Mao's new nocturne ending pose is very similar to Yuna's les Mis pose at 3:30s in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOw2oY4NZYI

Hmm. I think Mao has done quite a few movements in other programs that resemble or are similar to those "arm moves" that you claim might be uniquely Yuna's, IMO.

Anyway, the only similarity is that they both raise one of their arms out of a turn/spin. But like others have pointed out, it is not uncommon that there are little things that are similar across all skating programs.

To be honest, it looks to me like Yuna is going to play hide-and-seek and then forlornly saying, "Oh, please don't go! Wait! I don't want to be "it" anymore!" in a pretty dress while Mao looks like she trying to emulate the mural on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in another pretty dress.

 

[CarneAsada]

Hmm. I think Mao has done quite a few movements in other programs that resemble or are similar to those "arm moves" that you claim might be uniquely Yuna's, IMO.

Anyway, the only similarity is that they both raise one of their arms out of a turn/spin. But like others have pointed out, it is not uncommon that there are little things that are similar across all skating programs.

To be honest, it looks to me like Yuna is going to play hide-and-seek and then forlornly saying, "Oh, please don't go! Wait! I don't want to be "it" anymore!" in a pretty dress while Mao looks like she trying to emulate the mural on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in another pretty dress.

It's not that Yu-na has a monopoly on those moves. For me (don't know about yyyskate), it's more that in the past Mao has had expressive choreography that used her entire body and her wonderful lines to their fullest advantage, and those moments were timed perfectly. Blades of Passion said it best on page 2. Her 2006-07 Nocturne had the same music and despite the music cut not having any part that immediately makes you think "wow a spiral would definitely go here" and Mao's footwork back then not being as strong and ostentatiously difficult as it became later, it was completely memorable with the unique, well-timed choreography. Her SPs in 2007-08 and 2008-09 had the same qualities. Just look at the falling leaf into twizzle in 2008 or the spread eagle into 2A from her Clair de Lune. Is there anything like it in the new Nocturne? I don't see any. Just a lot more arm-waving, which is why I brought up Yu-na, whose main form of expression since 2008 seems to be a magnificent arsenal of arm movements combined with her choice of a beatific smile, fiery, seductive sidelong glances, or a sort of pained expression (usually combined with some stomach clutching).

That said, it's new, the music might be wrong, and there's time to make changes.

 

[TheCzar]

Hmm. I think Mao has done quite a few movements in other programs that resemble or are similar to those "arm moves" that you claim might be uniquely Yuna's, IMO.

Anyway, the only similarity is that they both raise one of their arms out of a turn/spin. But like others have pointed out, it is not uncommon that there are little things that are similar across all skating programs.

To be honest, it looks to me like Yuna is going to play hide-and-seek and then forlornly saying, "Oh, please don't go! Wait! I don't want to be "it" anymore!" in a pretty dress while Mao looks like she trying to emulate the mural on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in another pretty dress.

http://i.imgur.com/vTTncx6.gif
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5183/5669932604_1b7f826e3b_m.jpg
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/img_dir/2013/01/07/2013010700472_0.jpg

Not to mention THIS pained expression which has become YuNa's go to the last couple of seasons. NOW, I am not taking the piss out of Yu Na's seemingly one-dimensional 'expressive' look, but c'mon you guys! It's freakin' arm choreography! The only reason why people now seem to see a resemblance is because David Wilson's choreography HAS THE SAME ARM PATTERNS IN EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM and it has been imprinted on our minds. Isn't it unfortunate that we have come to expect a 'signature' arm movement from Yuna? Its because she does the same thing in every program. I don't hate it as much as the pained-stabbing thing she does but seriously, people have started NITPICKING here.

 

[TheCzar]

I totally just wrote about that! BTW, its still early? Asada might add or change some moves, we wont know until later in the season. Remember she tweaked some of her choreography in her 2007 FP by the time Worlds came, and the same with Liebestraume. There's just far too much assumption going in at this point in time.