Mens' LP

[museksk8r]

1000 posts on the men's thread! The men are running even with the ladies, helped by the boards crashing on Saturday.

life684, Yannick's disappointing performance was a real shame and will likely cost him his Olympic ticket. If he cannot become consistent FFSG will not risk sending him to major events. Which is really too bad, he's so talented.

I'm afraid you may be right, Buttercup. Ponsero's performance at Worlds did him no favors at all. It's a real shame too because I everything about his skating except his notorious inconsistency. I think Yannick now has to surprise everyone in the world by skating cleanly in all of his GP events and hope that he can somehow advance to the Grand Prix Final as the only Frenchman other than Joubert. Then, I think he has to hope that he can either win or place 2nd to Brian at French Nationals and then have a clean SP and another outstanding LP at 2010 Europeans as he did this year. I don't think the French federation is going to do him any favors again unless he showcases a totally remarkable turnaround and gives them complete trust that he can consistently get the job done under pressure. I'll be hoping that Yannick can achieve this level of trust and stability.

 

[viv]

1000 posts on the men's thread! The men are running even with the ladies, helped by the boards crashing on Saturday.

life684, Yannick's disappointing performance was a real shame and will likely cost him his Olympic ticket. If he cannot become consistent FFSG will not risk sending him to major events. Which is really too bad, he's so talented.

I am afraid you're right. Though I would prefer Ponsero over Preaubert in general, I think Preaubert will continue to improve his presentation next year. (He was already much better in that regard this year.) If Ponsero cannot make his skating more consistent, the French Federation will very likely send Preaubert.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The Men's contest was so-so. It didn't get interesting until Rhapsody in Blue came along because the large Amercian audience did not expect the clean skater to hold on till the end.

Did you guys see the backstage with TT and Brian and then TT and Evan?

 

[Eevun]

it's the offseason, let the fan wars really begin...

not everyone is going to like Chan's skating. I personally put him in the same boat as Johnny Weir - ... they skate to into themselves for me and it's hard to get into the program.

Johnny and Patrick that it's "okay I'm skating, and you can sit and watch if you want to, but this is just really for me".

Never thought of it that way, but you're right. And they're very different too, even if they have that same style, Johnny even more into that "inside himself". I can't stand watching Patrick.

I don't know how to explain it. But if you watch Patrick Chan and Johnny Weir, they used their hands very well. If those were too hard to imitate, watch Brian Joubert. Joubert used his hands more lately and I think his hands are much better than before.

And if you want to see a bad example, look at Vaughn Chipeur... But the poor lad tries so hard. Who was thinking (or not thinking) when they made the choreography for him? He's clearly not a classic skater and should do more programs à la Brian. That last music selection of his LP was great though.

 

[life684]

Andrei Lutai had tried highest technical content in the long program of 75.34 and for relatively mistake free routine he didn't add point, he scored 75.14. Looking at the score sheet it seems judges where put to sleep inward skating style of lutai. He and Kozuka could how to charm the judges from Alena Leonova.

 

[museksk8r]

Andrei Lutai had tried highest technical content in the long program of 75.34 and for relatively mistake free routine he didn't add point, he scored 75.14. Looking at the score sheet it seems judges where put to sleep inward skating style of lutai. He and Kozuka could how to charm the judges from Alena Leonova.

I'm so proud of Lutai for doing all of his technical content, but the judges didn't give him high PCS scores because he skated in the 2nd of 4 LP groups. No one who skates that early in the competition gets high PCS marks. I would like to see Andrei and Taka liven up more, a la Alena.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I've always liked Lutai, and this was the first comp in which he got it all together. He should have gotten better scores imo.

 

[viv]

I've always liked Lutai, and this was the first comp in which he got it all together. He should have gotten better scores imo.

I like him too. A new costume designer wouldn't hurt him, though.

 

[Medusa]

I like him too. A new costume designer wouldn't hurt him, though.

^^Well, the man is so pretty, he would do just fine without a costume.

Lutai came in 9th and 11th at his Grand Prixs - the average is 10, he managed to do just that at Worlds. So I guess it was to be expected

 

[viv]

^^Well, the man is so pretty, he would do just fine without a costume....

:agree:

 

[life684]

^^Well, the man is so pretty, he would do just fine without a costume.

Lutai came in 9th and 11th at his Grand Prixs - the average is 10, he managed to do just that at Worlds. So I guess it was to be expected

He is such a inward skater and has a sad face(sort of cute), hope u get my point.

 

[Medusa]

He is such a inward skater and has a sad face(sort of cute), hope u get my point.

I definitely agree, I don't know if his self-confidence is simply down after all those botched competitions (the last good one before Worlds and Euros 2009 was Euros 2007, I think he came in 5th). He didn't have any success at all for 2 years and looks insecure (often even surprised when he lands the jumps) and a bit afraid.

I just hope that his success will help him now, he could actually be a contender.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I've never thought of Boitano as an overly artistic/lyrical skater. I enjoy his powerhouse style. And I didn't think his Napoleon program was any more artistic than what Evan's been doing... *shrugs*

Well, from my perspective, the Napoleon program was incredibly complicated with the immense number of musical changes it had and Boitano was able to draw out the emotion/meaning from each and every part while also transitioning between them perfectly.

I don't think Evan is nearly that versatile. He mainly operates on one level - being competitive. When he skates, he is simply trying to execute the elements and excite the audience. I rarely ever sense him delving into the music and trying to interpret it and put his own complexities as a human being into the performance.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There are 3 kinds of performers:

The Lyrical, whose soul is based in the music: Kwan, Abt, Weir, to name a few.

The Bravura, whose soul is based for the audience: Cohen, Plushenko, Stoiko

But I am speaking of their forte. They can do justice to each others if they have that gift, and is called upon to do so. Browning is the best example of a multi-styled skater.

The third kind of performer, either has no discernable style or is developing one.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I believe that's too simplistic of a classification, though. It's possible to be Bravura and still interpret the music and draw out deep emotions.

 

[Kinga]

Finally I found some time to add my 2 cents. The discussion already went into other things, but what a heck.

Where two people fight (Joubert and Chan), the third one (Lysacek) always wins . I find it ironic that Joubert pointed out that Lysacek is his biggest rival (because he had a quad), and then, he won without a quad. I cannot help but think that Joubert woke up a beast in Evan .

I do not like Evan's skating too much, but he deserved to win. Basically I agree with this poster:

Lysacek simply isn't an artist and that goes for both his musicality and his skating skills. He isn't one of the best jumpers out there either. Basically was just in the right place at the right time. But good for him, I guess.

It is true that Evan's arm where a not flailing as much this time, but I still found his second step sequence much over the top. Actually, I liked his SP more (but this costume, OMG, no!).

If Chan hadn't double that loop, I would give him gold. Verner, even with doubling two triples was still better than Joubert IMO, and, also taking into account that his SP was scored too low, he should have been third. These two double jumps did not disturb the flow of the program as much as Brian's faceplant on the final 2A. Also Brian looked quite tenative and less energetic than usual. And being powerful is his main power, which he lost in the LP. Therefore it should have been reflected in PCS.
Normally, when a skater skates not up to his level, people (and judges) pick on it right away (Kozuka, Chan's SP). Somehow it is not like this with Brian's PCS. Altogether much has been said about his PCS, I also have to add that his PCS is very inflated. Ok, the guy has a charisma. But charisma does not equal PCS. Get over it people! Also, it is not like he is the only one out there having charisma. Verner has it, Contesti has it, Lysacek has it, even Denis Ten has it. People find Joubert entertaining. It is their preference. I find Contesti much more entertaining. He is entertaining in a way that no one is annoyed. How come Joubert annoy so many people? I never could answer that question, I guess it is something we cannot define. Some people are just liked by absolutely everyone by default (for example my boyfriend), some other don't, others are often considered annoying.
Ok, back on topic: I agree with you Mafke (damn, I doubt I have ever disagreed with you ):

That's not artistry, that's charisma (which joubert does have in spades). He can fill the arena with his personality (especially when he hits the big tricks)

But in terms of most of the traditional metrics of 'artistry': matching his elements (and inbetweens) to the music in interesting ways, attention to detail in terms of body position and posture, being able to create interesting programs full of interesting technique ..... No, I've never detected anything like artistry from him at all. (Not that Lysacek is much, if any, better).

Few words about Denis Ten. It is not so easy to be 15 and skate to Rachmaninov. But he is so musical and mature!! Amazing! And with a strong personality already.

He's saving it for Vancouver. Actually, to me, if Patrick doesn't win in Vancouver (I know, I'm in the minority), I want Tomas to win. He completely won me over this year. I wouldn't mind a tie for gold. With Nobu getting the bronze.

Are you me??

No one wins by default ever. Unless every single person is perfect and the best skater wins you cannot win by default. Part of skating is hitting when it matters. Evan hit when it mattered.

ITA! And it is even not that Buttle won because Joubert made mistakes, otherwise Joubert is head and shoulders above Buttle. No way. Buttle outskated Brian simply beause he was better in every single aspect of the skating. Even with the second quad, Joubert wouldn't make it in 2008.

Are we facing a real danger of having a quad-less Olympic Champion next year?

Again, as many other posters I do not see it as a danger. First, I think many youngsters will get a quad next year (Kozuka, Chan, Ten). Many will master it (Abbott). And even if an olympic champion is quadless, I dont care. I loved mens competition this year. Some had a quad, some did not, but it was still exciting.

Funny, I was pretty sure that ladies thread will become a discussion about URed tripels being punished too much and mens thread about quad being an essence of figures skating. I was right

Few final details:

I was watching mens LP on Eurosport. At some point of their broadcast, they had sound quite much delayed against the picture. You can imagine that it was very annoying, but actually it helped me to spot one thing: good and bad step sequences (not that normally I cannot estimate them, but...). Examples: Voronov - even with delayed sound, his moves did not create the impression that they do not go with the music.
Ponsero - with delayed music you could really see that something was not right. It became obvious that his step sequence was actually DESIGNED for the music, and sound delay really proved it. Voronov's step sequence, even if was meant to go with the music it did not. With sound delay it just looked - arm here, turn there, whatever. It would match anything. Maybe this should be the best way to estimate properly step sequences

And quads - those from Ponsero and Oda were beauties!! to die for. Even if few quads are performed cleanly, one can still appreciate some more than others. In that perspective, Joubert's quad looks almost laboured (gee, and it happened again, I am picking on Joubert ).
Ok, enough

 

[screech]

I'm not one to just jump to Joubert's defence about PCS, but I do have to say that the guy does have more than charisma going for him. He has great speed which is part of Skating Skills. His stroking is not exactly great but he gets from one place to another with excellent speed. He also performs the heck out of his pelvic thrusts which improves the performance/execution aspect of PCS. But to me, those 2 are the only high PCS he should have.

I still hate how judges clump all the PCS together, almost picking a number (ex. 7.50) and hovering around there for all PCS. I wish that on a good skating day judges would do something like this for Joubert:
SS: 7.90
P/E: 7.75
Tr: 5.50
Ch: 6.25
Int: 6.50

And for someone like Chan:
SS: 7.90
P/E: 7.0
Tr: 8.50
Ch: 8.0
Int: 8.0

I realize I'm clumping Chan's closer together, but there's still a discernible difference where he excels, but also he does excel at all the PCS.

Just my opinion. I'm hoping that Chan's PCS comments will result in something like this: PCS being judged as separate components, not one group of components where the average-ish mark holds.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I definitely agree, I don't know if his self-confidence is simply down after all those botched competitions (the last good one before Worlds and Euros 2009 was Euros 2007, I think he came in 5th). He didn't have any success at all for 2 years and looks insecure (often even surprised when he lands the jumps) and a bit afraid.

I just hope that his success will help him now, he could actually be a contender.

I believe Russia gets only one male for the Olys. If Plush does not skate, I would expect Lutai to get that position. I am not a Voronov admirer. In fact I wouldn't mind Borodulin to be considered.

 

[Medusa]

I believe Russia gets only one male for the Olys. If Plush does not skate, I would expect Lutai to get that position. I am not a Voronov admirer. In fact I wouldn't mind Borodulin to be considered.

No, they have two spots. Mostly because of Andrej.

Voronov needs a major overhaul, starting with that horrific posture (Urmanov had this fantastic posture, how can his student have one that's worse than Ando's?).

Lutai and Plushenko would make a great Olympic team (though lots of work for Mishin). Borudulin doesn't have a Lutz or a consistent Triple Axel, presentation-wise he is much better though than Voronov.

 

[formersk8ter]

Love your Kozuka pic, Medusa!