NBC vs. IceNetwork vs. Universal Sport

[waxel]

momjudi, I often get blocked from icenetwork but in my case it is usually an AOL issue so I just log onto Explorer.

ITA--- I have DISH as well --- so no Universal for me either.

 

[Tonichelle]

like I said on another thread... Dish is interested in adding Universal Sports if the interest is there... go to DishNetwork.com and tell them you want it and you want it NOW!

 

[Ladskater]

I rather enjoyed the cbc website coverage of the Worlds. Some did not like it, but I did.

For those who share a gripe about FS tv coverage, here is somewhere to vent:

http://www.bootandblade.com/news/2006/03/29/cbc-figure-skating-commentary

 

[Blades of Passion]

The thing is, fantasy sports are huge these days, and the people involved in that keep track of so many obscure details and statistics - why should figuring out CoP be harder for those interested in skating?

The difference is that most people who enjoy watching skating are not the same people who are very interested in fantasy sports.

Although I like the exacting way in which CoP scores the technical side of the sport (ideally that is; still needs much more tuning), there need to be some adjustments made which add more drama to the scoring of competitions and help audiences to understand what's going on better.

Anonymous judging should go away, so should random selection of scores.

The total score from each judge for the overall technical and presentation marks should be displayed along with a ranking from that judge for the given mark. A ranking for placement of the skater by that judge with both marks combined should be displayed as well.

I think it would go a long way for audiences to be able to say "okay this judge placed xxxx skater 1st, this judge placed them 2nd, etc". Being able to see the rankings for both technical and presentation from every judge, along with the final overall ranking, preserves that build up of excitement which we had under the 6.0 system.

 

[R.D.]

Hey Champs. Was the ladies' short program shown in HD over there? Did you record it?

I'd be interested in a couple more programs that NBC did not show (we were shown Ando, YuNa and Nagasu).

 

[Mathman]

I think it would go a long way for audiences to be able to say "okay this judge placed xxxx skater 1st, this judge placed them 2nd, etc". Being able to see the rankings for both technical and presentation from every judge, along with the final overall ranking, preserves that build up of excitement which we had under the 6.0 system.

I agree completely. Its that, yeah, OK, whatever, of the NJS that sucks the life out of skating competitions now, IMO.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I agree with showing the names of the judges and their final ordinals but I believe that most judges enjoy the anonymous system. It could be embarrassing for them if the audience let out a big boo. They have to contend with their peers and do not want to contend with the public. So any kind of vote on this would lose, and the public be damned.

 

[Buttercup]

The total score from each judge for the overall technical and presentation marks should be displayed along with a ranking from that judge for the given mark. A ranking for placement of the skater by that judge with both marks combined should be displayed as well.

I think it would go a long way for audiences to be able to say "okay this judge placed xxxx skater 1st, this judge placed them 2nd, etc". Being able to see the rankings for both technical and presentation from every judge, along with the final overall ranking, preserves that build up of excitement which we had under the 6.0 system.

I totally agree. I never thought 6.0 was that great but I would like to know ehich judge did what. I don't buy the ISU's line that anonymous judging is less susceptible to trouble.

BTW, I see you're up to 100 posts - but why no avatar?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I totally agree. I never thought 6.0 was that great but I would like to know ehich judge did what. I don't buy the ISU's line that anonymous judging is less susceptible to troube

And they could do just that without any added expense!

 

[enlight78]

I think it would go a long way for audiences to be able to say "okay this judge placed xxxx skater 1st, this judge placed them 2nd, etc". Being able to see the rankings for both technical and presentation from every judge, along with the final overall ranking, preserves that build up of excitement which we had under the 6.0 system.

I actually think this would confuse and hurt more than help. Theoretically the judge don't place anybody in any position. What the skaters do on ice is what the skateers get.The ranking only matter in the end and tagging judges with places gives false representation. The system doesn't compare skaters against each other anymore but against a standard. That is why Evan and Johnny were able to tie.During the 6.0 era I only cared about competitions that Michelle particpated in. I felt know exitement because the placements had no impotant meaning other than judges oppinion. The difference between first nd second could have been nothing or everything. The system didn't care so I didn't care.

 

[Blades of Passion]

BTW, I see you're up to 100 posts - but why no avatar?

I haven't thought about one yet.

Oh, I missed this:

I actually think this would confuse and hurt more than help. Theoretically the judge don't place anybody in any position. What the skaters do on ice is what the skateers get.The ranking only matter in the end and tagging judges with places gives false representation. The system doesn't compare skaters against each other anymore but against a standard.

But what does the nature of the comparison matter? The fact is that, in the end, each judge did place a skater a certain way based on the marks given. That judge may not have absolute control over their opinion, because tech elements are given base values they are forced to abide by, but their scores do result in a ranking nonetheless.

Although, if they really worked at it, judges could almost always place skaters however they wish on the overall tech grade too. A calculator and forceful use of GoE marks allows for such a thing. Which is also why judges should NOT be anonymous. There is SO much room to move skaters around between the GoE and PCS marks. We should be able to see exactly how they are grading everything if we are to ever correct situations where a judge absolutely steps beyond reason with their marks.

I do understand what you mean by saying it could cause confusion. If 6 judges place a skater in 1st, and 3 judges place them in 2nd, it's possible that the skater could actually end up in 2nd. The 6 judges who gave out 1st place might have only marked the skater slightly higher in comparison to the competitor below, whereas the 3 judges who had this skater in 2nd marked them MUCH lower in comparison to their top pick. So that part is debatable.

But definitely no anonymous judging and random selection of scores.

 

[chrissy51]

Is Scott Biased

I used to like Scott, but if he's going to show a bias as he did when commentating Skate America I think it's time for a change. As a lot of people said Paul Wylie was much better at being honest with the viewers. I for one did not like the arm movements of Evan. I did however enjoy Johnny's program.

 

[Linny]

Ironic

What I find ironic is that Scott and Sandra screamed "cheat" at the Olys when Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze were originally placed over Sale and Pelletier - but many would argue at that time that B&S's program had the better pit of the stomach visceral feeling.

Now, Scott and Sandra are voting for Evan's program because it has the better pit of the stomach visceral feeling.

Go figure.

Linny

 

[Mathman]

I do understand what you mean by saying it could cause confusion. If 6 judges place a skater in 1st, and 3 judges place them in 2nd, it's possible that the skater could actually end up in 2nd. The 6 judges who gave out 1st place might have only marked the skater slightly higher in comparison to the competitor below, whereas the 3 judges who had this skater in 2nd marked them.

If this happened a lot it would not cause confusion. It would cause people to reconsider their support for the NJS.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I guess if they are confused by math, since the actual score from the judges would be displayed as well.

People just need to be aware of this idea:

6.0 used the electoral college system.

CoP uses the system where it's the total vote that counts.

With the former, Oksana Baiul's marks get her 1st place at the 1994 Olympics. With the latter, adding up the ordinals, Kerrigan would have been 1st place.

Perhaps the rankings really wouldn't help. Maybe information simply needs to be passed on to people so they understand general values; such as (using arbitrary values here) 50 is an amazing score, 45 is a great score, 40 is a good score, 35 is an average score, etc.

Above all, it's most important to remove the anonymous judging and random score selection.

 

[Mathman]

People just need to be aware of this idea:

6.0 used the electoral college system.

CoP uses the system where it's the total vote that counts.

That's a good analogy. Under 6.0 judging the basic electoral unit is the individual judge (~ the state). Under the IJS the basic electoral unit is the CoP point.

I think the elctoral college method is a more natural system for figure skating (not so sure about national elections in the U.S.)

 

[R.D.]

I see it this way: no matter WHAT the scoring system used, people will find a way to trash it to prop up their favorite skaters...or, if their faves are getting the benefit of the doubt, claim it's the best thing since sliced bread.

It doesn't really matter. The only danger is that this current system is getting too complicated for the average TV viewer, and even audience member, to understand. When a scoring system is hard for the public to understand, that's just asking for disaster. It may not happen immediately, but just wait.

 

[champs]

Hey Champs. Was the ladies' short program shown in HD over there? Did you record it?

I'd be interested in a couple more programs that NBC did not show (we were shown Ando, YuNa and Nagasu).

I did record ladies coverage in HD. Very unfortunately though, over here in Japan they only showed Flatt and the 2nd group (Nagsu, Meissner, Ando, Nakano, and Kim). I really wanted to watch Poykio, Karademir, Liu, Dytrt, and Leung as well... wow, that make up all the ladies and I also definitely wanted to watch Marchei had she not withdrawn. In the ladies free they showed Poykio and Dytrt in addition to the six shown in the short. The Japanese broadcaster (TV Asahi) is, as always, so busy showing fluff and pushing the "Kim v.s. Asada/Ando" agenda, that showing these three skaters occupies probably more than half of their ladies coverage in every GPS. They show Mao's fluff even when she's not in the competition, and praises Yuna even when she's not in the competition either.

By the way they managed to show Kim's and Ando's SP 6 times for each and Kozuka's FS 4 times, all in their entirety. They surely know how to piss me off.

In South Korea I believe (but someone can correct me if I'm wrong) all the ladies were shown in HD by SBS, and in Russia NTV apparently aired all skaters and indeed in HD (saw several 1280x720 clips down-converted from 1080i posted in fsvids) Probably CBC of canada also aired most skaters in HD, I guess.

 

[R.D.]

cool. :agree:

I wanted Meissner's short program in better quality. Unfortunately that *might* mean I have to wait until US Nats to get that chance, assuming that she gets shown in the first place....and I don't have deja vu and my equipment fails on me AGAIN

 

[Tonichelle]

I'm sure they'll show Kimmie... she's Scotty's personal fave.