New Kwan Article

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Here is a good 2 page KWan article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29947-2004Dec27.html

Lots of good quotes.

 

[Kuchana]

Great article. Thanks for the link

I like the following quotes:

The new system makes things at once complicated and very, very simple: All any skater must do is connect the dots technically while, as Kwan put it, "keeping the integrity of your own skating."

Kwan said she has focused unusual attention on spins and transitions, the weakest parts, she determined, of her old programs when measured against the new system. The work has been different, occasionally exhausting, routinely stressful and somewhat awkward, but it has also been straightforward and, in many ways, deliciously challenging.

"I've improved a lot," Kwan said. "I have a different perspective in skating under the new judging system. It's interesting; I'm working on things I wouldn't have been if they didn't change the rules. It's mathematical now. It's all taking your body and putting it into the numbers."

Kwan said she sought advice from several judges, including Lakernik, who visited her home rink in August. He said he offered Kwan a few suggestions without proposing wholesale changes. Lakernik said if there were any questions about whether Kwan was willing to change, she answered it for him at those sessions.

"She is definitely trying to do what the new system demands," Lakernik said by phone from Moscow. "New kinds of spins, steps and so on. . . . This demands work. As far as I had seen, she was doing that."

Lakernik said he expected Kwan to adapt gracefully to the new system. What remained uncertain, he said, was whether she could adeptly handle the new wave of competition.

I can't say I'm not nervous about how Michelle's going to fare under the new system for the first time ever at Worlds but now I feel better about it after reading this. Michelle knows what's best for her and she'll do whatever is best her way to ensure that.

 

[Fossi]

I'm conflicted. Weren't there several posters stating as fact taht Michelle wasn't going to adapt to CoP and that she went on record to say so? This article makes it sound as if Michelle is/has taken some steps to adapt. I wonder if she really will?

 

[BronzeisGolden]

Michelle sounds like she knows exactly what she needs to do. And, refreshingly, it seems she is working on the things that she needs to work on: namely, the spins and transitions. I'm not sure exactly how she will be initially judged under COP either, but I have complete confidence that she will be able to attune herself to this new system. She has overcome so many obstacles and has bounced back from so many setbacks.....this should be no barrier! I think it will be good for her (even if it is a little uncomfortable at first). She always needs something to push her, and the challenges presented by this new judging system should do just that.

 

[Mathman]

I'm conflicted. Weren't there several posters stating as fact that Michelle wasn't going to adapt to CoP and that she went on record to say so?This article makes it sound as if Michelle is/has taken some steps to adapt. I wonder if she really will?

In Blades on Ice Michelle said, in an interview at the Campells competition in October:

"We've (Michelle and Aruturian) also been working on the new (judging) system. (Aexander) Lakernik (the chairman of the ISU's Technical Committee) came to lake Arrowhead for a week to look at my spins and footwork and discuss what levels they would be. This is like a foreign language to me.

"It's really hard. It's tough because I've skated so many years under the 6.0 system. The old system made me and I don't want to change myself. In the layback spin, you now have to do changes of position and hold your leg, to get a higher level. I'm not used to that. I have been trying it, but I had to stop a few days ago because of the pain in my back."

Similar remarks were quoted in International Figure Skating.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

(Aexander) Lakernik (the chairman of the ISU's Technical Committee) came to lake Arrowhead for a week to look at my spins and footwork and discuss what levels they would be.

I had forgotten this bit from 'Blades'. When reading the Washington Post article I got the feeling the Lakernik was out to get her, but towards the end he is happy that she is working on the CoP details. And so am I. Question: Why would this high ISU official come to Arrowhead to see Kwan?

I understand her point of view, that for so many years it was the 6.0 system and her successes with that. The change puts her in a position to work harder, but is it too late? As she said, she is not 13 anymore and her body has changed.

One other point, Lakernik hinted that by not doing the GPs it was not the way to go but did he also mean that she will be punished for it? Just curious.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

A high-ranking ISU official would come to Lake Arrowhead for the scenery. Also, they want Kwan to do well enough at Worlds to get on TV to help the ratings. If the ISU thinks that the absence of Kwan from the GP series was bad, what do they would happen if she looked at the CoP and said "to h*** with this, I'm going pro".

 

[Skate Sandee]

Joe - is your question

1) Why would ANY high ranking ISU official come to watch Kwan practice and offer feedback?

OR

2) Why would LATERNIK come to watch Kwan practice and offer feedback?

It's not uncommon for skaters to seek out judges feedback when constructing a program. Since RA is Ukranian, and the USFSA hasn't switched over to COP yet, he may have suggested going outside of USA to get feedback. Maybe he knows Laternik and felt comfortable asking him.

If your question was #2, are you thinking that maybe a Russian ISU official would be less inclined to offer real feedback to further the prospects of ladies from Russia? Not that such a question is out of line. But the Russian Federation have been open about their dismay in seeing the COP rammed through without further testing, so I don't think they have an agenda per se.

 

[Spirit]

Thanks for the article link.

This line struck me as amusing:

She had her worst finish in nine years, claiming the bronze medal after having won five golds and three silvers in her previous eight championships.

We should all have such "worst years." What a streak! (And no, I don't mean that guy who ran onto the ice before she skated in Germany.)

 

[Mathman]

What a streak! (And no, I don't mean that guy who ran onto the ice before she skated in Germany.)

About Michelle and the new judging system, I think this quote from Lakernik says it all:

"Last year, Michelle was third in worlds," he said. "To come back to first place, she must skate better than last year. The challenge is not so much for her whether it's the new system or the old system, the challenge is she must really present an interesting program, a program of a very high standard."

Mathman

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joe - is your question

1) Why would ANY high ranking ISU official come to watch Kwan practice and offer feedback?

OR

2) Why would LATERNIK come to watch Kwan practice and offer feedback?

It's not uncommon for skaters to seek out judges feedback when constructing a program. Since RA is Ukranian, and the USFSA hasn't switched over to COP yet, he may have suggested going outside of USA to get feedback. Maybe he knows Laternik and felt comfortable asking him.

If your question was #2, are you thinking that maybe a Russian ISU official would be less inclined to offer real feedback to further the prospects of ladies from Russia? Not that such a question is out of line. But the Russian Federation have been open about their dismay in seeing the COP rammed through without further testing, so I don't think they have an agenda per se.

The question really was your 1. It's just that MK would have pay a round trip ticket from Moscow/LA/Moscow. BTW, I think RA is Armenian but definitely he was around when it was just USSR. So he may well know Laternik and given the costs of the trip, he agreed to go to Arrowhead.

Your 2. I do not think Laternik would be less inclinded to offer real feedback. I think anyone who knows more than others enjoys helping others.

Both Slutskaya and Plushenko have shown the Russian Federation not to be dismayed, but I agree it does need further testing and will probably for years to come.
_________________________________________________________

Attnfan - Kwan to qualify for TV ratings and more money to go around. I can't really buy that but it is amusing to think about.
_________________________________________________________

Mathman - Apparently, he wants to nitpick MK. So be it. She could kind of up the anti in all this. Or is he really saying, don't expect her on the podium?

Joe

 

[attyfan]

Interesting that Lakernik blamed the program for Kwan's third place finish; most people blame such things as a fall in the QR and/or the time deduction.

 

[Kuchana]

Interesting that Lakernik blamed the program for Kwan's third place finish; most people blame such things as a fall in the QR and/or the time deduction.

I find that interesting as well. Did he not take into account just how close Michelle came to beating Shizuka in the long?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Interesting that Lakernik blamed the program for Kwan's third place finish; most people blame such things as a fall in the QR and/or the time deduction.

That's what I was driving at. She had a fall in the QR (some skaters have occasional falls) and the went over time in SP (big deal). None of that has to do with her normal skate. She did place 2nd in the LP with a bunch of 6.0s to the Triple combo jumps of the World Champion. That I agree with, a little more work on MK's part for the CoP and less sarcasm.

Joe

 

[Kuchana]

I had forgotten this bit from 'Blades'. When reading the Washington Post article I got the feeling the Lakernik was out to get her, but towards the end he is happy that she is working on the CoP details. And so am I. Question: Why would this high ISU official come to Arrowhead to see Kwan?

One other point, Lakernik hinted that by not doing the GPs it was not the way to go but did he also mean that she will be punished for it? Just curious.

Joe

Why would Lakernik come to see her? He could have just as well have ignored her request for any suggestions (even if she's Michelle Kwan). If he was hinting that she'd be punished for it, then why would he come to see her in the first place?

 

[Doggygirl]

Doesn't Surprise me....

Why would Lakernik come to see her? He could have just as well have ignored her request for any suggestions (even if she's Michelle Kwan). If he was hinting that she'd be punished for it, then why would he come to see her in the first place?

By not skating the GP series, Michelle is not getting the benefit of "feedback from international judges" that her competition is automatically getting by competing in front of international judges. So, for less than the cost of a Vera Wang dress (I'm kidding/guessing about that), I can see logic behind hiring / paying travel for some international judges' consultation and feedback outside of the competition rinks.

Of course I don't know if that was the deal, I'm just saying it would make sense to me if that's what she's been doing. And I'm sure she can afford it.

Also, I don't really see a conflict in her prior statements about 6.0 v. COP and this current article. My own interpretation (and I could be wrong) is that on one hand she was honest enough to say "I'm not crazy about changing my game" but on the other hand, she acknowledges the need to change the game whether she's crazy about it or not. That's the sort of thing that makes Michelle such a formidable competitor - adapting to change whether you're crazy about it or not. And I'm sure embracing the need for change at some stage in her mind.

I cannot WAIT for nats and worlds!!

DG

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There's lots of speculation here. I think I will go along with:

Laternik and Arutunian are close friends. Arutunian would love to be a coach of a World Champ as his own. The request was made with full travel expenses for Laternik. His views on Michelle were that she was skating in the 6.0 era, and recommended certain improvements to meet the challenge of the CoP and the youngsters coming on strong.

It may be that she didn't believe this and had to hear it from someone powerful enough to make it sink in. I think this was good for MK. She needed to know the 6.0 system was over!!!

On another note, I think it was a bit crass to make such statements about her last Worlds. JMO.

Joe

 

[lavender]

On another note, I think it was a bit crass to make such statements about her last Worlds. JMO.

I agree since Michelle did very well beating Sasha's long program and almost beating Arakawa with 5 triples to 7 with 3/3 combinations.

 

[Mathman]

I don't think this is any big deal. Judges and ISU officials travel around. Coaches and skaters talk to them and ask their advice. Even under the familiar 6.0 system skaters would solicit private feedback from the judges about what they needed to do to earn higher placements.

I don't think Lakernik is picking on Michelle. The article also says:

"Kwan said she sought advice from several judges, including Lakernik, who visited her home rink in August. He said he offered Kwan a few suggestions without proposing wholesale changes. Lakernik said if there were any questions about whether Kwan was willing to change, she answered it for him at those sessions.

"'She is definitely trying to do what the new system demands,' Lakernik said by phone from Moscow. 'New kinds of spins, steps and so on. . . . This demands work. As far as I had seen, she was doing that.'

"Lakernik said he expected Kwan to adapt gracefully to the new system. What remained uncertain, he said, was whether she could adeptly handle the new wave of competition."

Fair enough, IMHO.

Mathman

 

[wvgal57]

The thing is, Michelle is not the only skater affected by the new judging system. Everyone is and they all seem to be adapting, has anyone retired or quit because of COP? It's not like the new system is asking these skaters to do things they have never, ever done before. It simply assigns values to the things they have always done in competition and different levels for these things. COP can be as challenging as the skater wants to make it with different levels and elements. I just don't see the fuss about Michelle and her skating under COP. I don't think she should be worried or fretting. The things she is now working on seem to be the things she lacked in before and really needed to address in her skating in order to improve. COP has just forced her to deal with any weak areas of her skating, just like it has for everyone else. She'll skate and be judged, just like everyone who has done the GP events this year and last. COP has been here now for two GP series.