OD Results

[lmarie086]

entire post

Thank you for your report! And welcome to the forums!

 

[dancemaster]

Hi! this is my first post here, and I wanted to tell you a bit of the JGP in Madrid, I was a volunteer there.

In my opinion the russian victory was well deserved, they made good programs, and the Free Dance was just amazing :agree:

Shibutanis had a good competition too, but in the Free Dance Alex had a little mistake.

I didn't see bad judging in this GP, the results were quite fair.


:

Thanks and welcome

 

[dorispulaski]

Any reports you care to give would be very much appreciated. Do you have any notes about the OD-what kind of dances teams were doing?

 

[sigrid]

I can write a bit of every part of the event, but I can't remember every program... 21 ice dancing pairs (CD+OD+FD) + 36 ladies (SP+LP) + 31 men (LP) you'll be lucky if I can remember a single music
The OD was about the 20's... Charleston above all

But I'll try my best Tomorrow, now it's late

And thanks for the welcome

 

[icedancexpert]

I was also at the JGP in Madrid. I am an ice dance enthusiast and this is my first post on this board too!!!

First of all, it was a great competition and all of the volunteers were very friendly and helpful. Madrid is a beautiful city (I was able to stay downtown with a friend) and I hope the ISU decides to use the event again.

I watched the dance events in their entirety and here are just some of my opinions/comments.

First of all, it is my belief that the Shibutanis should have won the CD segment. Their dance was executed without mistakes while Riazanova and Guerreiro had some slight bobbles. Also, R/G did not skate with the beat of the music at all yet they had the highest Timing score of the event! They were completely off time in certain segments of the dance and I couldn't believe when I saw the protocols.
It seems certain judges on the panel (6 of the 10 judges seemed to be from eastern block countries) really downgraded the Shibutanis in their component mark (see protocol on ISU; Judges 1, 2, and 7). I would suspect this to be because of R/G's lower point total (silver medal) in Merano. R/G are the only Russian team who seems capable of being in the top tier of juniors this year.

And although this may be just a personal preference, I believed that the Shibutanis OD was better than R/G's as well. One of their lifts was phenomenal and their performance quality was unmatched. They got a fantastic audience response. Again, Judges 1, and 2 appeared to severely lower their components (as well as those of Tibbetts/Brubaker, the other American team, and the two Canadian teams, P/C, St.O/B). I also thoroughly enjoyed R/G's OD (Louie Armstrong/Swing) but I found his arms distracting.

In the FD, both teams skated well, with the exception of a slight bobble on a twizzle in their circular step sequence (by Alex) but by no means, anything major. If you look at the Components scores on the protocols, I believe that judges 6 and 10 were right on (scores in the 7s) while 1, 2, and 3 were off the mark (scores in the 5s).

Their skating is so smooth and elegant and their coach (Marina Zoueva) pleased. In fact, they remind me very much of Virtue and Moir. Maia and Alex have that same spark and energy in their skating which cannot be taught. <Maybe they will compete for Canada?!?!> haha

I was also pleasantly surprised with the performances of Paul/Cheperdak and St. Onge/Brown. Both teams held their own in a strong event and P/C were able to pull up in the FD after an unfortunate fall on a spin in their OD. If they had not made that mistake, I believe they could have challenged for the bronze!!! (GO CANADA!!!) This team has a bright future!!!

 

[dancemaster]

Why not say, 'we will never know' if it was the coach or not? Opinions are opinions.

yes but some have more then opinion

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

yes but some have more then opinion

That's like a quote that George Orwell would use in Animal Farm.

 

[dorispulaski]

icedanceexpert, Thank you so much for the OD report-there are almost no videos of OD's so far this year, and they and the CD's are my favorite parts of ice dance competitions--I am wishing more & more that I had gone to Lake Placid IDC. Given that lack, a good report is a lovely thing indeed.

The Shibutanis last year's OD was phenomenal, too. (it's still viewable on icenetwork as part of their US Nationals coverage).

BTW, it would be feasible for the Shibutanis to sit out a year at some point and skate for Japan (not Canada) in order to get to international senior competition more quickly. I believe they have Japanese citizenship, although they live and have lived in the US.

As to your comment on timing, Madrid would not be the first time that I have heard of it peculiarly graded. And that is strange, because it is a more objective criterion than the other PCS components. Given that it has its very own PCS component, somebody should grade it properly, rather than give another almost identical mark. It has seemed to me that European federations do not think it is as important as Canadian and US federations. This became most clear to me when viewing a side by side comparison of Bourne and Kraatz and Grishuk and Platov. G&P deliberately on altered the timing to get a prettier legline at one step of the dance. (Obviously, if they and their coach thought timing was of first importance, they would never have done this)

 

[dancemaster]

, R/G did not skate with the beat of the music at all yet they had the highest Timing score of the event! They were completely off time in certain segments of the dance and I couldn't believe when I saw the protocols.
I

I find this comment hard to believe
Had this been true the USA and maybe the Canadian judge would have put them out to hang.
And that was not the case.
maybe your understanding of timing is different to those who Judge or teach :agree:

 

[dancemaster]

It seems certain judges on the panel (6 of the 10 judges seemed to be from eastern block countries)

Do you really think that plays a part?
i am a great believer that most old eastern block countries would more likely work against the Russian then for them
If you had a bitter divorce. I don't thing you would be to eager to help your X
And you are living the Bulgarian judge out of this discussion because it went your way.?

 

[dancemaster]

That's like a quote that George Orwell would use in Animal Farm.

sorry never watched the show

 

[dorispulaski]

Certainly, the experts on the panel disagreed quite a bit on R&G's CD performance and PCS vs. the Shibutanis.

http://www.isufs.org/results/jgpesp2008/jgpesp08_JuniorIceDance_CD_Scores.pdf

Judge 10 gave R&G -1 GOE on 4 of the 6 sequences and graded their PCS as follows: (1,-1,-1,1,-1,-1)
SS 5.25
Timing 4.75
Performance 5.25
Interpretation 5.25

The most extreme judge in the pro R&G direction was Judge 7 graded the step GOE as ( 2, 1, 1, 2 ,1, 1)
SS 6.25
Timing 6.00
Performance 6.25
Interpretation 6.00

The same Judge 10 graded the Shibutanis (1 0 1 1 1 1) on GOE
SS 5.50
Timing 5.50
Performance 5.50
Interpretation 5.50

The same Judge 7 graded the Shibutanis (1 0 0 1 0 0)
SS 4.75
Timing 4.75
Performance 5.00
Interpretation 5.00

Obviously these judges were using two different criterions when they graded R&G and the Shibutanis.

Judge 3 was also thought R&G had timing of 5.50 and gave the Shibutani a timing score of 4.00. Judge 6 OTOH loved the Shibutanis giving them timing of 6.00 and R&G timing of 5.25.

I didn't see the event, but I can tell you that this makes no sense to me since either the couples had good timing or not so good. It's not open to that much interpretation.

I think someone should look into the judging at this event. BTW, having not seen the event, I can't tell you which set of judges is out to lunch on the CD, the pro R&G or the pro Shibutanis, but they surely aren't both right. And negative GOE is clearly defined. I'm taking it that Judge 10 had as jaundiced a view of R&G's timing as icedanceexpert, because it got into the GOE as well.

 

[dancemaster]

there is nothing real wrong with this set of marks.
the one out of norm is Bulgarian no 10 judge
a please explain may have came her way
she did change her mind by the OD
but had nothing to loose by the FD
i could tell a full story about this Bulgarian Lady and her connection S/S coach
the USA..Canadians.Russians will always support they teams

 

[dancemaster]

Here is a view from the other side of the world (not sure aim allowed to do this) just use a Google translation and you will get the meaning

Je ne sais pas, je n'avais pas vu son libre l'année dernière. Mais samedi soir, il a été absolument fabuleux... :clin d'oeil:

Quant à la danse libre, victoire méritée Riazanova / Gueirrero. Beaucoup de classe, très rapide. Programme sur James Bond et Mission Impossible. Portés impressionnants, bonne technique, nettement au dessus du lot. Certains passages rappelant Isabelle et Olivier de temps en temps. :roll: Et la demoiselle est magnifique, très classe avec sa robe rouge et ses "bottes" noires.
Les Shibutani, autant j'ai adoré la danse originale, autant j'ai trouvé le libre relativement ennuyeux. Ils impressionnent par la technique, c'est joli (ma mère et ma meilleure amie, qui ne connaissaient pas la danse sur glace, ont adoré) mais rien de nouveau, très décevant après leur danse originale...
Les Ukrainiens, assez lents sur les éléments techniques, mais pas de fautes majeures. Musique du genre BO de film.
Paul / Cheperdak, programme sur la Sarabande de Haendel, avec des portés originaux d'après mes souvenirs, et une qualité de glisse contrastant avec le groupe précédant.
Telegina / Andoniev, très roses (les costumes), programme avec beaucoup de longueurs mais bien exécuté.
Chute de Tibbets / Brubaker sur un porté. La pauvre faisait mal au coeur, elle était en pleurs à la fin de la compétition !
Aela et Benjamin nous ont fait un programme original autour du Japon, avec une gestuelle très villardienne (ça se dit ?!?). Des erreurs techniques, notamment sur les twizzles pourtant magnifiquement bien partis, mais ils ne sont pas ridicules pour autant, pour leur premier Grand Prix ! Moi j'ai bien aimé, mais il faut encore travailler le programme.

 

[chuckm]

Here is how judges 1 2 (UKR) and 3 (POL) placed the teams, using the PCS scores:

CD
Judge 1 (RUS):
1-Riazanova/Guerreiro (RUS)
2-Vykhodtseva/Sumski (UKR)
3-Telegina/Adoniev (RUS)
4-Tibbetts/Brubaker (USA)
5-Shibutani/Shibutani (USA)
6-Paul/Cheperdak (CAN)
10-StOnge/Brown (CAN)

Judge 2 (UKR):
1-R/G (RUS)
2-V/K (UKR)
3-S/S (USA)
4-S/B (CAN)
5-T/B (USA)
6-T/A (RUS)
7-P/C (CAN)

Judge 7 (POL)
1-T/B (USA)
2-R/G (RUS)
3-T/A (RUS)
4-V/K (UKR)
5-P/C (CAN)
6-S/S (USA)
9-S/B (CAN)

The Italian judge placed the Shibutanis 7th in the CD and the Hungarian judge placed them 4th.

Just for comparison, the placements of the entire PANEL based on PCS were:
R/G (RUS)
S/S (USA)
T/B (USA)
V/S (UKR)
P/C (CAN)
T/A (RUS)
S/B (CAN)

The actual scores for R/G by the 3 judges above (especially judges 1 and 2) were much, much higher than the scores for the other teams, in all phases of the competition.

In the OD, 7 judges (including 1, 2 and 7) had R/G first, while 6 had S/S first (there were 2 ties). Judges 1 and 2 had S/S third, behind V/S, and T/B fifth.

 

[dancemaster]

Here is how judges 1 2 (UKR) and 3 (POL) placed the teams, using the PCS scores:

QUOTE]
just to keep it fair why don't you show what the USA Canadian Bulgarian judges did
really look close the Russian judge was more fair then the USA and Canadian
don't kid yourself

 

[dancemaster]

hope I can get my hands on a video of this event
plus there is a great person on this forum great with this figures maybe he will come forward

 

[sigrid]

Well obviously you understand about Ice dancing much more than me (it's my less favourite category) I trust in your CD and OD impressions because I don't see the edges, timing and other mistakes yet :banging: but in the FD the russian pair really deserved the victory.

It's not only my opinion, most of the people there were agree and applauded a lot when they won the event.

Shibutanis are very young, and a silver is a great result right now :agree:

I really hope someone recorded a bit, because for me was totally impossible recording while I was opening the rink's doors to the skaters

icedanceexpert I'm glad you've enjoyed here. The volunteers did our best, and we want to improve the next year if the GP comes back. At least Peter Grütter told me that he enjoyed here and he wanted to come back

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's not only my opinion, most of the people there were agree and applauded a lot when they won the event.

Shibutanis are very young, and a silver is a great result right now :agree:

The roar of the crowd got to you, it does to me also. However, that should not be a reason in the scoring.

The poor Shibitani's have been accused of their size, and their age is not appropriate. Is this correct?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

sorry never watched the show

Animal Farm is a classic book and referred to by many Political Scientists when a totalitarian regime takes hold.

Your quote: yes but some have more then opinion

In Animal Farm quote: All animls are equal but some are more equal than others.