OGM - Who's within reach of it?

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Hi Joezitz, I dont think the OLY one will be a teenager this time because the sport is in such decline and a teenager will not peek interest. The ISU is aware that the teeny boppers will run with medal and so goes any chance of renewed interest. I for one want a Lady to win the Ladies OGM. I really want Michelle to win and hope she does however if the Gold goes to any skater who really doesnt deserve it we can kiss skating goodbye. The causal fan will not accept sloppy flawed programs over a clean skate no matter what the COP is. They see what is a great program and want that to be a winner . Im not impressed with COP and think it will do skating in without a lot of changes and I dont think Speedy will let up till he hits rock bottom as the saying goes. The judging is no different and the inflated marks determine the winner. I will watch next season and then I dont think we will see skating except OLYS. The boards are humming with no longer interested posts and no more going to the comps. Wish it wasnt so but OH it is. Thanks for replying

Interesting discourse, Cianni!

However, it is very hard for anyone and that includes judges to not go for a teenager who's trying to spread her wings and win the Olys. Carolina is such a candidate for winning the gold and it leaves the judges guilt free from picking one mature skater over the other.

ITA with your view of the CoP. It's great on paper but it is open to the same problems there were in the 6.0 system. One big tweek for the CoP would be to have two sets of judges - one doing the Tech the other doing the PCS. This would be a big improvement, but the best way to rid the competition of any thought of collusion or favoritism is to announce the names of the judges who are being assigned to the competition. No judge wants to be the subject of a controversy. They will behave the best they can.

I think Speedy is quite aware of the low viewership of figure skating due to the unresolved SLC debacle. Unfortunately, his method to prevent another debacle is to deprive the media from again pointing the finger at the guilty parties. By hiding the names of the judges, no one can point the finger that there might be some sort of 'fix'.

Like ESPN, we have to accept Speedy. He is very popular with certain Federations to keep things quiet.

Yes, figure skating is at a cross roads. This Olys will determine its existence. I don't think Speedy has any influence on its outcome. I presume the Federations will be politicking for their teams. I don't believe there will be any collusion because if there is it will be the end of figure skating until a new organization is esablished sometime down the road. However, if there is hanky panky, and the media gets wind of it, the sport will just self destruct.

There's more to this Olympics than Carolina!!

Joe

 

[cianni]

Joe

Hi Joesitz, I agree to some of what you pointed out however the media will be super vigilent and they will be looking at the points each skater gets and for what the skater did. Im not sure hanky panky as such will be the focus as much as how the skaters are marked overall. The flawed sloppy skating will not fly with the public nor the media. The OLYS is the first time the world gets to see and to show off Speedys brainstorm way to appear to change what isnt changed at all. Worlds didnt leave a good impression.The media such as Herch is aware of the way COP works and will not let anything slide by. My point was that the judges know they will be crucified if the skater who skates a great clean program is passed over for a lesser flawed program and its obvious. I think fans tend to undertimate the average Joe and his intelligence forgetting that group of people support the sport the most. Most people and I say most dont like cheating and the cheaters esp. when its blatant in your face. I feel like the judges give us the finger and say now do something about it. My concern is a scandel like we have not seen before if the inflated marks set a skater apart in a way that no other skater can catch up and its obvious they didnt deserve the marks such as Irina in the SP at Worlds that was over the top and real obvious. Let me also state her LP was great. I will enjoy next season as if its my last and it may well be.

 

[jenaj]

I hear Michelle is doing something like four triples and a 3-2-2 combination in her COI exhibition. I don't think she can be counted out.

 

[show 42]

Very thoughtful post, Sarah............we miss you..........stick around and keep posting.......... 42

 

[flowjo35]

Jenaj

It has also been reported that when she was skating to Bolero in the first week or so of the tour she was doing at least five triples (some in combo) and a 2 axel. Since she changed to her new exhibition she has been doing something like 2 flips, lutz, 2 axels (some jumps in combo) and just recently the 3lutz,2toe,2loop. So it looks like she is keeping her jumps intact. I hope she brings it next season. People should never count her out. Being the underdog is a good position to be in

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Cianni

We are pretty much on the same wave lengths regarding the possible judging outcomes.

The Amercians don't mind losing if it justifiable but they will not sit back if there is even a hint of collusion. I'm not talking about those fans who have full faith in all judges. I'm not even talking about figure skating journalists. I'm talking about casual fans who will be extremely influenced by the News Media.

If the main news media gets a hold of any Le Gougnes or toe tapping, it will be plastered all over the front pages (not just the sports page). It will be more casual fans falling by the wayside. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

Let the Games begin and let the best man, woman, team win. :thumbsup:

 

[Lucy25]

I hear Michelle is doing something like four triples and a 3-2-2 combination in her COI exhibition. I don't think she can be counted out.

A report from a poster who watched the skaters warm up in Chicago reports that Michelle attempted several 3lz/3t combinations, landing one and tacking on a 2 loop at the end! Sounds like she is very serious about keeping (and upping!) her tech content for next season. If she doesn't have to spend lots of time at summer's end trying to get her jumps back, she will have lots of time to work on choreography and spins.

 

[Fossi]

For those of you that thinks Sasha has shown great improvements with Nick's I say what?! :scratch:
Granted, she got the silver, but I think a case could've been made for Cohen in 3rd, and Carolina in 2nd. Sasha had the worst showing this year at Worlds than she has had in a long time. She made mistakes in all 3 portions of the competition, thus solidifying her reputation of being unable to skate clean when it counts.
Her coach has taught her to 2 foot her jumps, rather than splat, but she needs much improvement. I just don't see the improvements with Nicks everyone is talking about!
Nobody wants a champion that wins with 2 footed jumps and a sloppy, unclean program. I can't believe CoP rewards for that.

 

[K-Mo]

I still can't count Michelle out! So she had a lackluster showing at worlds, but she always comes back with a vengeance when people start thinking she's out of it! She loves to compete, and even if she doesn't win, I am sure that she will certainly rise to the challenge.

I still say Sasha is way too inconsistent, so I'm not going to hold my breath!

The exciting thing for the both the ladies and the men is that this is going to be a wide-open competition! There are so many talented skaters with different styles. There will be so much to watch, which is good for the sport. I think it will make the Olmpics more exciting to watch!

 

[Lucy25]

I am not necessarily speaking of Sasha here, but I can't wait to see what will happen if the gold is won with a flawed performance over a clean one. The viewing audience will not understand COP.

For those of you that thinks Sasha has shown great improvements with Nick's I say what?! :scratch:
Granted, she got the silver, but I think a case could've been made for Cohen in 3rd, and Carolina in 2nd. Sasha had the worst showing this year at Worlds than she has had in a long time. She made mistakes in all 3 portions of the competition, thus solidifying her reputation of being unable to skate clean when it counts.
Her coach has taught her to 2 foot her jumps, rather than splat, but she needs much improvement. I just don't see the improvements with Nicks everyone is talking about!
Nobody wants a champion that wins with 2 footed jumps and a sloppy, unclean program. I can't believe CoP rewards for that.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

A report from a poster who watched the skaters warm up in Chicago reports that Michelle attempted several 3lz/3t combinations, landing one and tacking on a 2 loop at the end! Sounds like she is very serious about keeping (and upping!) her tech content for next season. If she doesn't have to spend lots of time at summer's end trying to get her jumps back, she will have lots of time to work on choreography and spins.

Lucy - Haven't we been hearing this sort of thing since 2000? I want to see it in competition. I don't think Michelle is one for taking risks in competitions.

Kmo - MK had a very beautiful LP in Worlds but it wasn't all that competitive. It was just a beautiful skate.

Fossi - I disagree. Sasha's LP in Moscow was, for me, the best I've seen her skate since Cleveland Nats. It was not her wow extensions that I liked, it was her relaxed stick with it despite a few flubs. She was actually enjoying skating from beginning to end,and not thinking about gold. Loved it. (Dortmund Worlds quali was good but it was more gold oriented than enjoying skating.)

Joe

 

[Lucy25]

Lucy - Haven't we been hearing this sort of thing since 2000? I want to see it in competition. I don't think Michelle is one for taking risks in competitions.
Joe

That she warmed up a 3/3/2 before a COI performance? I don't think so. In fact, I have never heard of her attempting a 3/3/2 before. 3/3's in regular practices, yes. I think the difference now is that it is supposedly the off season and she seems to be doing the opposite of what she usually does (take it easy until the fall). I am in agreement, though - I, too, want to see her attempt it in competition.

 

[Eeyora]

To me it seems like there will be more medal contenders than any other year.

 

[mzheng]

That she warmed up a 3/3/2 before a COI performance? I don't think so. In fact, I have never heard of her attempting a 3/3/2 before. 3/3's in regular practices, yes. I think the difference now is that it is supposedly the off season and she seems to be doing the opposite of what she usually does (take it easy until the fall). I am in agreement, though - I, too, want to see her attempt it in competition.

She'll bust out next season from all accounts, barring injury. It surprised me too that she tried 3/3 and 3/3/2 in COI practice. Since the COI ends up earlier this year, I would've thought she had plenty of time to get the 3/3s uptodate even after the COI. With her enhenced core strength, it was pretty fast last season she got them down earlier in the season (before Campbell, within weeks). The problem was put into the program while her Bolero had always been in 'developing' stage....and when finally in program they have to be over 80% clean in runthrough....Hope this coming season she got her program and spins down earlier. So that she can train her musle memory.

 

[chuckm]

What will kill a teenager's shot at the OGM are the outrageously high PCS scores given to skaters like Irina and Sasha. Irina's PCS scores were over the top even for a very sloppy SP. Kostner skated a clean SP but was placed behind others because of her low PCS scores.

The judges have probably already zeroed in on the range of PCS scores for each of the top skaters, and I don't think you're going to see big numbers for skaters like Kostner, Phaneuf and Meissner. When a skater goes into a competition with a 1-2 point PCS deficit, it's going to be pretty hard to win, even with a terrific FS.

Skaters like Slutskaya with her multiple Biellmanns will rack up the TES, even with mistakes, and have the nice point cushion in the PCS as well.

Skaters will be looking to impress judges during the Grand Prix so that their 'perceived' PCS goes up a notch or two. But at this point, it well may be that Irina has already won the OGM, as long as she is able to skate.

 

[shine]

I agree. Slutskaya's PCS are the biggest puzzle to me this season. I just don't understand.

 

[cianni]

Ogm

We musnt forget Irina was cheated at the last OLYS according to Irina and the Russian press. There are still articles repeating this from the Russian press and Irina is continuing to state that she was cheated out of Gold. What will we have ?Revenge and I agree the OLY Gold is slated for Irina. I wish is wasnt so but I do believe it is. Those PCS scores for Irina were laughable. I guess for anyone else to win they would have to skate the skate of their life and Irina fall 6 times and maybe not even then. I think the COP was designed to allow a flawed program to win over a clean one so the judges can hand pick their winner and get away with it and Irina has been hand picked. I wonder if the rules will be changed to limit how many times a move or spin can be repeated in a program. That might level the playing field so Im guessing that wont happen.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I agree with all who think Irina was held up in the PCS. Her program and her skate did not impress me. I don't think she's got any more speed than the others; Her choreography is one trick after another, her musical sense depends on how carefully she is about to do a trick, dealing out a deck of cards is not my idea of the character of the music. the whole thing was sophmoric and she's much too old for that now,

However, the tricks were good and those bielmans (all of them) do rack up the points. I believe, too, they influence the PCS scores.

Joe

 

[cianni]

Ogm

I agree Joe and I think the overuse of the Bielman with little else in the program is an unfair advantage over other skaters and should not be rewarded. ITA with your assessment of Irinas skating and I find that a turn off. I am amazed that judges continue to get away with overmarking her at evey comp. the way they do. There are times Irina wins on her own so why the inflated marks all the time. OLYS will be a make or break for skating this time around and heads will role if the sloppy flawed program wins.

 

[Mathman]

Oh, I don't know. Irina skated the lights out of her LP at worlds. Nobody else was in the same ballpark. So I look at the high PCS scores in the same way that I view all the 6.0s that Michelle got at nationals. She won anyway, so no harm is done by throwing her an extra bouquet.

The ISU judges do seem to be using the component scores in the same way that they used the second mark under ordinal judging. They give the highest marks to the skater they thought skated the best, without too much fussing over the details. I don't see any reason to expect either more or less cheating, coniving, politicking, etc., than there has always been.

IMHO, Irina has established herself as the favorite because, except for Europeans, she has skated the best. If she dominates the Grand Prix series in the fall the judges will indeed be ready to reward her with high PSC scores at the Olympics, but this won't necessarily mean anyone is cheating. That's just the way it is. The skaters who are perceived as being the best will get the highest marks.

Mathman