"One more time" for Japan's Mao Asada

[da96103]

I'm sure you are also implying Asadakova would have delivered a quality SP too

I was pulling for Yunia Kimnitskaia in Sochi TBH

Well Asadakova can do whatever she wants and still win gold. Unless Kimnitskaia was Russian also.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Well Asadakova can do whatever she wants and still win gold. Unless Kimnitskaia was Russian also.

In my world nationalities are irrelevant. I love Asadakova

 

[Alexz]

I'm sure you are also implying Asadakova would have delivered a quality SP too

I was pulling for Yunia Kimnitskaia in Sochi TBH

 

[MeineKatze]

I am not sure this is a guarantee she is sticking around. Maybe she like Gold and so many other skaters are looking and hoping for some magical ending - culminating at the olympcs but sadly only one lady will have that moment. I truly wonder what goes on in a skater's mind. I mean there is what they say to the media but what REALLY is in their mind. Do they truly skate for themselves and or their fans? Is it really about self satisfaction regardless of medals or... I know it sounds cynical. We all know it they want the OGM. Which is why I am so happy that Adelina got 2014 OGM as much as I love Yuna's skating. Everyone deserves their moment under the sun. I honestly was disappointed in Mao this year. I know many love her and there was a great rivalry with Yuna but really in the end the last 4 or 5 years of their competing there was no rivalry - kind of like historic or vintage tennis - I am a sports buff - there was an American Princess - Chris Everet against the Czech player Martina Navritilova but in the last few years Martina dominated. Maybe 2015-16 was an off year for Mao.

I would assume Mao skates for herself, her fans and also to challenge herself and get good competitive results, as she obviously knew that her only chance for OGM was in 2010. At this point she just wants to try one more olympic cycle, not for the shiny gold medal but because when she sat out for last year after nearly 20 years of training and 10 years of competing, she said that she missed skating and competing a lot that she couldn't release her retirement announcement. It just shows how much she loves skating and how competitive person she is despite knowing her limitations and being fully aware that she's the judges' least favorite, she doesn't want to stay home when she's still capable of a near perfect 7 triple program and 4 triple sp, and when she's still only in her 20s (so many male skaters go to olympics at age of 25+). Most skaters want to finish their career right after their golden years but for Mao, she probably just wants to give her all until she loses her athletic abilities as she ages, kind of like Plushy, they are fighters that never stop giving.

 

[miki88]

I would assume Mao skates for herself, her fans and also to challenge herself and get good competitive results, as she obviously knew that her only chance for OGM was in 2010..

I personally think she had a greater chance in 2014, based on potential scoring of her layouts. Her clean SP was able to get a world record, and it wasn't really due to PCS boosting. She didn't have the highest PCS (even on home ground) and her PCS was just about a point or so higher than what she was getting in GP. On the other hand, her 2010 programs were not well received at all and she had less momentum after difficult worlds and GP season prior to Olympics.

 

[gotoschool]

I would assume Mao skates for herself, her fans and also to challenge herself and get good competitive results, as she obviously knew that her only chance for OGM was in 2010. At this point she just wants to try one more olympic cycle, not for the shiny gold medal but because when she sat out for last year after nearly 20 years of training and 10 years of competing, she said that she missed skating and competing a lot that she couldn't release her retirement announcement. It just shows how much she loves skating and how competitive person she is despite knowing her limitations and being fully aware that she's the judges' least favorite, she doesn't want to stay home when she's still capable of a near perfect 7 triple program and 4 triple sp, and when she's still only in her 20s (so many male skaters go to olympics at age of 25+). Most skaters want to finish their career right after their golden years but for Mao, she probably just wants to give her all until she loses her athletic abilities as she ages, kind of like Plushy, they are fighters that never stop giving.

I agree with most of what you said. But if you consider the really big view counts that Mao's performances on youtube have compared to her competitors, like her Japan Open LP, her Cup of China SP and her Worlds LP, she hasn't lost any of her ability to move people and some people find her artistic expression even more compelling now than in her golden years. Everyone I have shown these performances to including friends and one family member liked these performances the most among the women and all but one was an American. That is not scientific, but it is the reality I see around me. Mao had some difficulties in her other performances, but she had to endure two cases of the flu during the busiest time of the season and knee and back injuries that caused her to only train at 60 percent from the beginning of March in her preparations for Worlds. And even then there were many truly beautiful moments in these other performances, especially her Cup of CHina SP and her Nationals LP.

 

[gotoschool]

I personally think she had a greater chance in 2014, based on potential scoring of her layouts. Her clean SP was able to get a world record, and it wasn't really due to PCS boosting. She didn't have the highest PCS (even on home ground) and her PCS was just about a point or so higher than what she was getting in GP. On the other hand, her 2010 programs were not well received at all and she had less momentum after difficult worlds and GP season prior to Olympics.

I understand that you and some others didn't receive Mao's 2010 programs well, but Bells of Moscow is one of my very favorite LPs and friends I have showed it to loved it as well, especially the spirals, spins, steps and triple axels. Mao's 2010 performance of Waltz Masquerade at the Olympics and Worlds was also truly wonderful, joyous and acrobatic with the triple axels and bounding into the air during the step sequence.

 

[ioanna]

I agree with most of what you said. But if you consider the really big view counts that Mao's performances on youtube have compared to her competitors, like her Japan Open LP, her Cup of China SP and her Worlds LP, she hasn't lost any of her ability to move people and in many ways people find her even more compelling now that she had in her golden years.

A skater's ability to move people has nothing to do with the number of YouTube views. Of course Mao has a big number of view counts, she's a household name in Japan, a brand. A lot of people click to see her performances because she's had a long and decorated career. Publicity is important in this kind of instances. Marin Honda's most viewed program has +400.000 clicks while Wakaba Higuchi only has +70.000. Does this mean Higuchi isn't as good a skater as Honda is? I don't think so.

 

[khughes]

In my world nationalities are irrelevant. I love Asadakova

I do too. And I love your world. I just don't know it!

 

[MaxSwagg]

A skater's ability to move people has nothing to do with the number of YouTube views. Of course Mao has a big number of view counts, she's a household name in Japan, a brand. A lot of people click to see her performances because she's had a long and decorated career. Publicity is important in this kind of instances. Marin Honda's most viewed program has +400.000 clicks while Wakaba Higuchi only has +70.000. Does this mean Higuchi isn't as good a skater as Honda is? I don't think so.

Well, Marin Honda is better. Clicks aside...

 

[ioanna]

Well, Marin Honda is better. Clicks aside...

She has had better choreography this season and Higuchi didn't but in my opinion Honda isn't better.

 

[Amei]

How did we get to a world that # of youtube views somehow equals success, popularity or the quality of ability? So many things affect 'view' counts - like uber-fans that watch a performance over and over, videos getting geo-blocked or taken down and re-posted.

 

[yume]

Well, Marin Honda is better. Clicks aside...

no no no and no. she doesn't have pains and bad choregraphy like wakaba this season. it is not because she have win words that she is better than wakaba. she's more popular because she's little more pretty, win worlds and have good communication.

 

[largeman]

no no no and no. she doesn't have pains and bad choregraphy like wakaba this season. it is not because she have win words that she is better than wakaba. she's more popular because she's little more pretty, win worlds and have good communication.

I think Wakaba's long program this season was gorgeous. :2thumbs: And she sold it at junior worlds like I've never seen her sell any program.

I love both of them. Artistically, it comes down to personal preference and taste, and both still have a long way ahead to develop and mature themselves. Marin does have that natural airiness and effortless grace, but Wakaba has also impressed me with the improvements in her presentation over the past two seasons. Technically, at the moment Marin probably has the edge (pun intended) because she doesn't flutz or lip, and her spins are superior. But Wakaba's jumps are all-caps JUMPS.

To me, Wakaba has the wow factor and is the more charismatic of the two, because of the fire in her belly and a presence on the ice that's very unique.

 

[gotoschool]

A skater's ability to move people has nothing to do with the number of YouTube views. Of course Mao has a big number of view counts, she's a household name in Japan, a brand. A lot of people click to see her performances because she's had a long and decorated career. Publicity is important in this kind of instances. Marin Honda's most viewed program has +400.000 clicks while Wakaba Higuchi only has +70.000. Does this mean Higuchi isn't as good a skater as Honda is? I don't think so.

I won't give the exact number of view counts, but my point is this: if the judges are going to give empirical, numerically based scores that very many look to be biased and unjust for a skater like Mao in her LP at Worlds, then why not look at another numerically based total that has a far, far greater sampling size where in addition to numbers people state their opinions openly . The opinions of people who watch performances is one of the main foundations for what keeps figure skating going.

But, Mao did not have anywhere near the most number of views in the SP at Worlds 2016. And what great publicity is she receiving now anyway? Since the Grand Prix Final especially. many announcers routinely give more praise to her competitors even when Mao skates extremely well as in the Worlds freeskate, and in my view this is partially due to how the skaters have been scored with a lot more generosity than Mao. Yet, Mao's freeskate has by far the most views of any performance at Worlds 2016 anyway. This shows that many people were deeply moved and impressed by the performance, which is backed up by the fact that it also has a very high likes to dislikes ratio. This is just a different type of numerical empiricism. There was a similar reaction to Mao's Cup of China SP, which didn't receive anywhere near the highest score of the season. The announcers I listened to in Russian were very surprised by how low the score was because they thought it had a very good chance of breaking the world record when she finished.

 

[ioanna]

I won't give the exact number of view counts, but my point is this: if the judges are going to give empirical, numerically based scores that very many look to be biased and unjust for a skater like Mao in her LP at Worlds, then why not look at another numerically based total that has a far, far greater sampling size where in addition to numbers people state their opinions openly . The opinions of people who watch performances is one of the main foundations for what keeps figure skating going.

Are you saying YouTube isn't based on empirical, numerically based scores that very many look to be biased? Sure the opinions of people who watch performances are a very important aspect of figure skating, but you can't judge the sport based on opinions. Figure skating has always been judged by numerically based scores and it's subjective but that's what we have now.

But, Mao did not have anywhere near the most number of views in the SP.

Dear god, are you really counting and measuring the views on YouTube so much that you know whose SP had the biggest number of views?

And what great publicity is she receiving now anyway? Many announcers routinely give more praise to her competitors even when Mao skates extremely well as in the Worlds freeskate

Basically everyone skated extremely well in the Worlds free skate, it was a one of a kind competition. Of course her competitors got as much praise as Mao. Should Mao get more praise just because she's Mao? Also, the announcers are not the ones who give her publicity; it's the Japanese media, the large number of fans she has. They are the ones who click on the video. You're comparing a 3 time World Champion and Olympic Silver Medalist to a field (with some exceptions) of skaters freshly out of juniors. Medvedeva, Pogorilaya, Miyahara, Radionova, Hongo, they're all new faces who are at the beginning of their senior career. Mao started hers 10 years ago, she took a break last season and now people wanted to see her back in competition - yet another factor to consider when you count the number of views. There are so many other factors, Amei mentioned them in a post above.

Mao is scored with a lot less generosity. Yet, Mao's freeskate has by far the most views of any performance at Worlds anyway. This shows that many people were deeply moved and impressed by the performance, which is backed up by the fact that it also had the highest likes to dislikes ratio

I wouldn't say "a lot less" generosity. I'd say her PCS was right while some of the others were inflated by 2 to 3 points (Gold being the most obvious example). Adding 2 or 3 points her total score would have still kept her in 7th overall, because she was 9 points behind Radionova. She had 3 UR calls and a doubled lutz with an edge call.

Honestly it's pointless to argue over such absurd issues. Mao doesn't care about scores anymore, she came back because she loves to compete. She was very happy with what she did and her placement at Worlds and you should be too. She has nothing left to prove; at this point in her career her placements and scores will have zero influence over her legacy - this is the conclusion I'm drawing based on the number of YouTube views. And speaking of YouTube I've often seen your enormous comments there, always calculating, criticizing, analyzing protocols and worst of all bashing other skaters; Miyahara often getting vitriol because she happens to be representing the same country. People are easily influenced by what is said by a person or another, there's always a tendency for herd behavior. I very much doubt Mao would be pleased about some of her fans acting like this. There's so much negativity, a lot of people forget to see the beautiful aspects of skating and are overwhelmed by bitterness instead of enjoyment.

 

[MeineKatze]

Marin Honda's most viewed program has +400.000 clicks while Wakaba Higuchi only has +70.000. Does this mean Higuchi isn't as good a skater as Honda is? I don't think so.

Well I don't know much about those two, however last time when I watched their junior worlds LPs, I immedietly realized that Honda has better flow, effortless and secure jumps while Wakaba barely hung on several of her jumps and seemed to a bit mechanical and stiff compared to the other. Wakaba's jumps were explosive and had great height in 2015 tho, she needs to work on her skating to get higher pcs than Marin, let alone her unstable jumps aren't helping her technical score.

 

[ioanna]

Well I don't know much about those two, however last time when I watched their junior worlds LPs, I immedietly realized that Honda has better flow, effortless and secure jumps while Wakaba barely hung on several of her jumps and seemed to a bit mechanical and stiff compared to the other. Wakaba's jumps were explosive and had great height in 2015 tho, she needs to work on her skating to get higher pcs than Marin, let alone her unstable jumps aren't helping her technical score.

Don't base their skating on their Jr Worlds free skates alone. Wakaba's jumps are better and more stable than Marin's. This season she upgraded her base value (backloaded her SP and put 3Lz-3T and 3Lz-3Lo in her FS) so she did look a bit more focused on her technique compared to last season. It's funny you mention it but today Wakaba skated a new program at an ice show and the entire skating community is talking about how different and beautiful her presentation looked. I'm sure she will be much better in the PCS department having worked with Shae-Lynn Bourne and Massimo Scali for her new programs.