I'm sorry , but Kirk doesn't have what it takes to be a top skater. All of her perfomances were bad here and she had gone to Worlds before and withdrew so this is her second Worlds. The US talent pool is so deep that if Jenny was a true champion, like MK and SC, she would take every opportunity to present herself in the best light to these judges. She was horrible and unless she does a complete turnaround, I don't see the judges putting her on that team unless everyone tanks at Nationals.
Perhaps retiring for MK?
- Thread starter preztobe
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- Jul 26, 2003
Technically, it was Jenny's 2nd time at World's. During her prior trip, she had to withdraw after the SP. I know they mentioned it during the broadcast - I think it was due to injury. She was a last minute replacement in 2002 when Sarah decided not to compete.
As Dick put it, she doesn't have that fire in her belly to get the job done. Maybe she should pursue pairs more with Andreev - sometimes it helps to have someone else out there with you. That's what Dave Pelletier supposedly said as written in The Second Mark - he was originally a singles skater and almost quit skating entirely when the pressure was too much - then he discovered Pairs and the rest is history.
As Dick put it, she doesn't have that fire in her belly to get the job done. Maybe she should pursue pairs more with Andreev - sometimes it helps to have someone else out there with you. That's what Dave Pelletier supposedly said as written in The Second Mark - he was originally a singles skater and almost quit skating entirely when the pressure was too much - then he discovered Pairs and the rest is history.
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- Aug 7, 2003
If it's time for the chaning of the guard, then its up to the other skaters to change it. Not to Michelle. Should Sasha quit doing the GP series and give other skaters a chance to win the GP medals? No of course not. If other skaters want to win medals it is up to THEM to produce the performaces that will win.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2003
No to retirement!!
I really wish we didn't have someone posting these kinds of threads. Michelle's over!! She should hang up those skates.
Kwan was plagued with problems though out this worlds. I woud have been a differne story if she didn't have such bad luck.
Also She still medaled!!
She finished 2nd in the long.
I say let her stay longer. I think this is a good result for Michelle, it takes a lot of the pressure off her next season. She can just skate and develope her 3/3 without the pressure of being the world champ.
also glad that sasha medaled!!
I really wish we didn't have someone posting these kinds of threads. Michelle's over!! She should hang up those skates.
Kwan was plagued with problems though out this worlds. I woud have been a differne story if she didn't have such bad luck.
Also She still medaled!!
She finished 2nd in the long.
I say let her stay longer. I think this is a good result for Michelle, it takes a lot of the pressure off her next season. She can just skate and develope her 3/3 without the pressure of being the world champ.
also glad that sasha medaled!!
She's been on top of her game for 10 years. Why would she want to break the streak now? She's showing no signs of slipping. And she's still young.preztobe said:
I have a feeling she'll continue to skate until she wins that Olympic gold, which third time should be the charm! If she can't do it this time around, she'll probably skate 4 more years until the next one.
How preposterous are some of the posts in this thread??? How would you like it if you handed in a report to your boss for example that for once wasn't guite up to par and then the whole office started saying "You're finished, over, best retire now"
Puleease!
This week Kwan has once again shown why she is the strongest competitior in the field. NO other skater could have gone through what she has in 4 days and still won the bronze medal. She was one ordinal off winning the LP and were it not for the stupid SP fiasco - which I'm sure will rumble on for months - and the fact that some flaws in certain 3/3 combo's were not deducted for at all, then I'm sure we would be celebrating her 6th World Title.
MK's not stupid and Raphael is totally aware of what she has to do. While I preferred her Nationals LP to Worlds I thought her jumps looked amazing in both SP and LP and the new set ups she's added show that 3/3's are likely on the cards for next season. This isn't stagnation. She's in a transition period between '02 Olys and the buildup to '06. Which I'm sure will start right now!!!!!
Puleease!
This week Kwan has once again shown why she is the strongest competitior in the field. NO other skater could have gone through what she has in 4 days and still won the bronze medal. She was one ordinal off winning the LP and were it not for the stupid SP fiasco - which I'm sure will rumble on for months - and the fact that some flaws in certain 3/3 combo's were not deducted for at all, then I'm sure we would be celebrating her 6th World Title.
MK's not stupid and Raphael is totally aware of what she has to do. While I preferred her Nationals LP to Worlds I thought her jumps looked amazing in both SP and LP and the new set ups she's added show that 3/3's are likely on the cards for next season. This isn't stagnation. She's in a transition period between '02 Olys and the buildup to '06. Which I'm sure will start right now!!!!!
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- Jul 11, 2003
What is so wrong with not letting MK to decide herself. Why must we be doing it for her?
Joesitz
Joesitz
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I get so sick of these "So and so should retire, let the younger ones go up in the standings" blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda.... talk about seeing the same programs from certain skaters every year getting old...so is this topic! If you are so sick of seeing a certain skater THEN DON'T WATCH that certain skater 
and you have to remember........this is how skaters make their money, you know... like a job? They train and train for years and years, to make that their living and THEY will decided when it's time to retire. 
and you have to remember........this is how skaters make their money, you know... like a job? They train and train for years and years, to make that their living and THEY will decided when it's time to retire.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Aside from KM's skating which seeing it in the LP and getting her ovation, something should be said about retirement from any job. It's not easy, and if you ask your fathers, they will tell you just that.
Joe
Joe
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- Aug 19, 2003
Oh, look, a thread after my own heart! Didn't take long, now did it?
Let's see Sasha will 21 at the next Olympics. She should retire now because she finally got a Worlds medal. Maybe not gold, but she reached the podium. Good for her! Go sit down and chill now.
Shizuka should retire now. She'll be 24 at the next Olympics. She has her Worlds gold. She's reached her pinnacle.
Irina should retire. My goodness, she has a serious health problem. Let's forget that she still looked pretty darn good for being sick out there.
Julia S. should retire or get a hair style change.
Let me see, there are so many in their 20s that should be gone just because they have been around so long. By all means let's just watch these gangly, jumping beans whose presentation skills still fall .2 short of everyone else's.
And worst of all, Kwan should retire. She just does the same old stuff every year. Yep, that's what I think. She's so boring. Never upping her ante. And how arrogant of her to think she hasn't needed any 3/3s in her programs. Guess she never gave that much thought. Guess hiring Rafael wasn't a long term thing heading for the Olympics. And how crass of her to rise to the occasion once again and not finish off the podium by skating excellent programs that reek of maturity.
By all means, let's just sweep all these skaters out the door and let those younger ones duke it out. Who wants to watch a sport where all the elite ladies are over 20? Much more fun to watch the "old" men skate. Why not ask Plushenko to retire?
I think it is arrogance supreme to think that any of us would know what's best for any skater. I think, if you are bored watching a skater do the same old moves all the time, then maybe you ought to quit watching skating. Because, as far as I can determine, ALL the skaters do the same old thing because that's what they are good at.
Now, I'm done. I just love these "MK should retire" threads because she isn't the oldest one out there. She isn't the most boring skater. And she can certainly up her technical despite what some may think. Both she and Sasha will definitely need to step it up in the next 2 years if they hope to keep the rising teens from passing them. But hey, maybe they should just both step aside.
Let's see Sasha will 21 at the next Olympics. She should retire now because she finally got a Worlds medal. Maybe not gold, but she reached the podium. Good for her! Go sit down and chill now.
Shizuka should retire now. She'll be 24 at the next Olympics. She has her Worlds gold. She's reached her pinnacle.
Irina should retire. My goodness, she has a serious health problem. Let's forget that she still looked pretty darn good for being sick out there.
Julia S. should retire or get a hair style change.
Let me see, there are so many in their 20s that should be gone just because they have been around so long. By all means let's just watch these gangly, jumping beans whose presentation skills still fall .2 short of everyone else's.
And worst of all, Kwan should retire. She just does the same old stuff every year. Yep, that's what I think. She's so boring. Never upping her ante. And how arrogant of her to think she hasn't needed any 3/3s in her programs. Guess she never gave that much thought. Guess hiring Rafael wasn't a long term thing heading for the Olympics. And how crass of her to rise to the occasion once again and not finish off the podium by skating excellent programs that reek of maturity.
By all means, let's just sweep all these skaters out the door and let those younger ones duke it out. Who wants to watch a sport where all the elite ladies are over 20? Much more fun to watch the "old" men skate. Why not ask Plushenko to retire?
I think it is arrogance supreme to think that any of us would know what's best for any skater. I think, if you are bored watching a skater do the same old moves all the time, then maybe you ought to quit watching skating. Because, as far as I can determine, ALL the skaters do the same old thing because that's what they are good at.
Now, I'm done. I just love these "MK should retire" threads because she isn't the oldest one out there. She isn't the most boring skater. And she can certainly up her technical despite what some may think. Both she and Sasha will definitely need to step it up in the next 2 years if they hope to keep the rising teens from passing them. But hey, maybe they should just both step aside.
michell is going to be better next year hopefully with a triple-triple combo and better coreo that's all this fab skater needs. I agree she has to skate the gp,that will help her even more with the international judges. I think Sasha needs more help like another coach. Robin was great for Sarah not Sasha.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2003
But isn't it more exciting to watch the new charge of stars compete against the usually invincible veterans? Hear me out...
I was ITCHING to post on this, so I couldn't even finish the last two pages
I think that as many top-notch elite skaters should stay in the game to raise the stakes for competition and make competitions exciting, like this year's worlds. I remember Michael Jordan retiring in the early 90s, when I was rooting for Charles Barkley to win his first ring with the Suns, and I remember thinking, that evil Michael Jordan, beating up on my favorite players...but even if my beloved Sir Charles had pulled out a championship before retiring and AFTER MJ retired, it wouldn't have meant as much to me (or, I imagine, to him) if he wasn't taking it from the best, most dominant player in the history of the game...just like I think Shizuka's title was extra special because she had to push herself THAT much more to win it from the long-standing gold standard in her sport, a close-to-clean Michelle (except for the QR and the 2Z)---it was all so exciting because the level of skating, little misses from the top guns and all, was SOOO high, and we as skating fans can only stand to enjoy and be enthralled by seeing someone with the longevity, passion, and consistency of a Michelle Kwan, then the brilliance and sheer talent of a Sasha Cohen (who made two small errors in three skates in the biggest comp of the year, happens to the best of them--let's forget her falls in cheesefests and championships past), then the technical and artistic prowess of an inspired and brave Shizuka Arakawa...I say, DON'T retire, to those ladies who have been competing and can still be supremely competitive--for MY sake as spectator, not to mention if it still makes them so happy!Like her skating or not, Michelle's consistency and dominance alone make her a history maker, a walking, talking, spiraling legacy, and I think that when she ends up third in a competition but still with much more than a fighting chance (her usual clean skates are still among the 3-5 best in the world), it makes for incredible drama. Whoever wins or loses, I think it is imperative that the pool of top skaters include living legends, up-and-comers, natural talents, and all sorts of great performers, to make it worth watching at all...why else follow skating year round, to watch the same exact programs, with a thinned-out field with only one really dominant skater and an all but foregone conclusion as the outcome? Sasha had great success in the GP series, and even though CoP gives all players a fighting chance, short of a disastrous program probably produced by illness, at that point she was the only one likely to win any of those competitions because the total field was split among 3-4 competitions, Cohen winning most all of hers, Liashenko in first in those she chose to compete in, et al.
Also, quality of competition issues aside, not only is it folly to suggest that Michelle, who says she loves to compete and does it better than anyone in the business right now, retire, in light of her olympic bronze medal, but she was, up until a week ago, the reigning WORLD CHAMPION and she's still on the podium this year! If you said she ended up 14th in the overall competition, I'd understand, but...
I want to see high drama of the good kind in as many major skating competitions, and that requires Michelle, AND a healthy Irina, AND many others staying eligible!!!
Sarah
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
But even so...
I would not really be surprised if Michelle should decide to retire. Or anyway not to compete next year. I am not saying that I want this to happen, just that I can see how Michelle might come to this decision.
First, her status in the sport and her place in the hearts of her fans do not depend on her acquiring more medals or titles. OK, if she wins the gold medal in Torino she will move up from fourth to second on Phil Hersh's all-time list. That's nice.
But it is her total body of work that defines her career and makes the audience cherish their every opportunity to see her perform.
In some recent interviews Michelle hinted that it had been hard to maintain her motivation between U.S. Nationals and Worlds. Certainly she got off to a slow start. Plus, there has to come a time when you feel like you are a woman in a girls' sport. (Of course, there are a lot of men around playing boys' sports.)
If Michelle does move away from competing as an eligible, look for her to do something big and unexpected as a professional entertainer. I don't know what, but if she wants eventually to be compared to the giants in the history of the sport, that's the next step.
OT -- Michelle's LP was fantastic. She fell on her face in the qualifying round, she was zinged by an unusual rules infraction in the Short, and in the LP her preparation was interrupted by a bizarre and potentially dangerous intrusion. And then...utter perfection! As Peggy Fleming said, even her popped triple Lutz was an absolutely exquisite double! 6.0, Michelle.
Probably the last such score we will ever see.
Mathman
I would not really be surprised if Michelle should decide to retire. Or anyway not to compete next year. I am not saying that I want this to happen, just that I can see how Michelle might come to this decision.
First, her status in the sport and her place in the hearts of her fans do not depend on her acquiring more medals or titles. OK, if she wins the gold medal in Torino she will move up from fourth to second on Phil Hersh's all-time list. That's nice.
But it is her total body of work that defines her career and makes the audience cherish their every opportunity to see her perform.
In some recent interviews Michelle hinted that it had been hard to maintain her motivation between U.S. Nationals and Worlds. Certainly she got off to a slow start. Plus, there has to come a time when you feel like you are a woman in a girls' sport. (Of course, there are a lot of men around playing boys' sports.)
If Michelle does move away from competing as an eligible, look for her to do something big and unexpected as a professional entertainer. I don't know what, but if she wants eventually to be compared to the giants in the history of the sport, that's the next step.
OT -- Michelle's LP was fantastic. She fell on her face in the qualifying round, she was zinged by an unusual rules infraction in the Short, and in the LP her preparation was interrupted by a bizarre and potentially dangerous intrusion. And then...utter perfection! As Peggy Fleming said, even her popped triple Lutz was an absolutely exquisite double! 6.0, Michelle.
Probably the last such score we will ever see.Mathman
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- Dec 18, 2003
LOL Mathman...
I was thinking along those same lines just last night - that if Michelle did decide to retire and go pro, it would sure breath some exciting new life into that side of the sport. I imagine I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of current pros who can't wait for that to happen, assuming she does go pro and not hang up her skates. (Somehow it's hard to imagine her hanging it up all together)
DG
I was thinking along those same lines just last night - that if Michelle did decide to retire and go pro, it would sure breath some exciting new life into that side of the sport. I imagine I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of current pros who can't wait for that to happen, assuming she does go pro and not hang up her skates. (Somehow it's hard to imagine her hanging it up all together)
DG
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I'm probably wrong, but that hasn't stopped me yet. 
I have it in my mind that she will continue training and if it looks like she won't be able to up the ante enough go on to another life. I would guess that she will do next year the same as the last couple of years, just choosing a few competitions. I would like to see her do the series but have my doubts about it.
I have loved MK and wanted her to win so much. I wish for her to do whatever she wants and am so glad she came into our lives. She has put a lot of wonderful memories for this old lady and am glad she has been such a wonderful "hero" instead of one of the "sluts" we see in Hollywood, etc.
Now I suppose you are thinking, gee, she must like MK.
I have it in my mind that she will continue training and if it looks like she won't be able to up the ante enough go on to another life. I would guess that she will do next year the same as the last couple of years, just choosing a few competitions. I would like to see her do the series but have my doubts about it.
I have loved MK and wanted her to win so much. I wish for her to do whatever she wants and am so glad she came into our lives. She has put a lot of wonderful memories for this old lady and am glad she has been such a wonderful "hero" instead of one of the "sluts" we see in Hollywood, etc.
Now I suppose you are thinking, gee, she must like MK.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
What's there to go pro to for her? I'm sure she doesn't care for the circuit of SOI, but maybe she will. She had always said when she was younger that she would never be one of those "old ladies" still trying to skate. Hopefully, she doesn't feel that way any more and I hope I am wrong but I truly doubt she would just stay in that circuit. Of course, money talks. And who of us wouldn't think twice about it.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
LOL Granny!
Of course I have no idea what ideas Michelle has about her life whenever she decides to do something different. BUT - I somehow don't see Michelle being part of an existing pro show. Somehow I would see her doing something innovative and different of her own creation should she ever decide to go that route. Could be wrong here, but it just doesn't seem Michelle's style to go down the same beaten path. Just my speculation...
DG
Of course I have no idea what ideas Michelle has about her life whenever she decides to do something different. BUT - I somehow don't see Michelle being part of an existing pro show. Somehow I would see her doing something innovative and different of her own creation should she ever decide to go that route. Could be wrong here, but it just doesn't seem Michelle's style to go down the same beaten path. Just my speculation...
DG
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Not a big MK fan, but see absolutely no reason for her to retire if she is not ready.
The only time I've really felt someone needed to retire and didn't was Maria Butyrskaya in 2002 after the Olympics. She went to worlds, did poorly in QR, and chose to retire at that point, without even skating SP. This, I think was wrong -- she should have retired before or after Worlds, not During. Other than that, it should be up to the skater. I mean, if they can't deliver, they don't win their Nationals, and don't go to Worlds. All there is to it. Kind of market economy I guess.
The only time I've really felt someone needed to retire and didn't was Maria Butyrskaya in 2002 after the Olympics. She went to worlds, did poorly in QR, and chose to retire at that point, without even skating SP. This, I think was wrong -- she should have retired before or after Worlds, not During. Other than that, it should be up to the skater. I mean, if they can't deliver, they don't win their Nationals, and don't go to Worlds. All there is to it. Kind of market economy I guess.
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