Philip Hersh: A painful sight: Hughes, Meissner after the fall(s)

[Medusa]

I watch German Eurosport now (because I only get the British one at my parents') and they can be really annoying and judgemental (always criticising costumes, and e.g. during the Cup of Russia they were picking on Smirnov like mad - he is too theatrical etc.) - but they are great with the underrotations. They always say if they think a jump is underrotated and they are right most of the time.

They really are good with it, they say "der war nicht auf rückwärts gelanded" (that one wasn't landed backwards = meaning short of rotation) or "der wird nicht viele Punkte bringen, der war nicht auf rückwärts" (that one won't bring many points, it wasn't landed backwards). I was watching figure skating with some friends yesterday, who don't know much about figure skating; but they didn't have any questions because the commentators mention the mistake during the performance, then during the slow-motion and often tell the viewer if the jump(s) was/were really called underrotated after the kiss&cry. And it's not boring or comes over as overly scientific or anything - it just works.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

But a lot of it can be explained by the broadcasters. I think the smart thing for the ISU would be to ensure the media has the tech calls in real time so that they can let viewers know what is happening and why. From what I've read here, US commentators hate the current system and don't really take the time to explain how the scoring works. Watching on Eurosport, they make a real effort to make the scoring understandable to the average viewer (though they too were stumped by Kimmie's SP mark) and they go on and on about how skaters can build up levels.

How good are the broadcasters? I read a lot of dissention among the posters as to the USA english speaking commentators? I haven't a clue as to what the German, French and Japanese commentators say about wrong edge takeoffs and underrotations? What can any commentator say until the protocols show up. That is one of my points. To announce officially, repeat: officially what the Tech Panel has arrived at, and as the skater is still being judged - not 3 days later. I can not imagine a network commentator sticking his neck out and be wrong by the Tech Panel. Even Wiley cautiously says it looked UR or not and adds, we'll have to wait till the protocols come out.

Medusa. Cheers for the German commentator who calls it as he sees it. But the question remains: Is he always in agreement with the Tech Panel? Can it be that he is correct, and the Tech Panel is wrong?

Frozenhell - Your example of Yukari is just what a commentator should do. Just give the possibiliity of a UR and no more. I do not believe the Tech Panel can change their calls. They are set in stone?

On Hersch's harsh criticisms. Sorry, he's a macho kind of sports writer like almost all sportswriters. He may well be trying to make FS more of a Sport and not just a Ladies Pagaent where one does have to be writing sweeter. JMO

So I stand by my contention that the CoP needs to look at making the viewers a better understanding of the scoring system. I know most of the posters know how it works, but the general public does not. Kimmie's clean routine with no Falls needs an explanation as it is happening. Not after the competition when the general public just moves on. Otherwise, imo, the sport will falter.
More likely in the US than elsewhere.

 

[Buttercup]

On the website for the Ondrej Nepela Memorial, the protocols are up even though the event is not over. They must have uploaded them after each segment of the competition. I don't see why the ISU can't do likewise, and get the info to the media even faster than that. Really, as it seems everyone agrees, if the scoring is explained based on accurate information and in real time is really the best thing for everyone.

 

[Mathman]

And it's not boring or comes over as overly scientific or anything - it just works.

To me, that is the crux of the matter right there. Is it boring or not?

People don't come to athletic contests to listen to lectures about mathematics. They come for the vicarious "thrill of victory, agony of defeat" thing, they come to root for the home team through thick or thin, and in the case of figure skating they come to see lovely or exciting performances to beautiful or rousing music.

I agree with Joe's point. It is not an audience friendly production when the winner is decided by something that is invisible to the audience and we only have the opinions of the talking heads to tell us why one competior won and another lost.

 

[bekalc]

agree with Joe's point. It is not an audience friendly production when the winner is decided by something that is invisible to the audience and we only have the opinions of the talking heads to tell us why one competior won and another lost.

If the audience can "decide it" why have judges??? I think part of the problem is commentators who say the system is soo complicated, the system is sooo complicated,. Wrong.

I highly doubt in Gymnastics the "naked eye" can understand everything there is to judge.

The point is the commentators have a responsiblity to just tell people, well her jumps were underrotated (and not make it sound like that's a silly thing because it's not a silly thing)

And I don't think giving skaters like Nakano credit for cheated triple axels is the "right way to go" for this sport either.

 

[Mathman]

I highly doubt in Gymnastics the "naked eye" can understand everything there is to judge.

I highly doubt this, too. That's why gymnastics is on the slippery slope to oblivion, with figure skating rushing in the same direction.

 

[enlight78]

I highly doubt this, too. That's why gymnastics is on the slippery slope to oblivion, with figure skating rushing in the same direction.

Yes , but I believe their is a diffence between explaining how a skater jumped off the wrong edge than explaing how a person feet came slightly apart and flexed while doing a back layout.

Or is there?:scratch:

Either way after listening to brittish, canadian and etc commentators the US comentators have did the worst job of improving the understanding of the figure skating in both the 6.0 and Cop era. The only thing learn about was what made a good layback spin.

 

[antmanb]

Maybe that's why we have commentators to explain for general audience? I don't want to count number of revolutions, watch edge during takeoff and watch clock during spiral .It's commentator's job and in most cases, they do good job though British euro guys didn't do good job this time. It's kind of surprise that they didn't see UR in 3loop.
At world championship, general audience would have thought Yukari won but commentators mentioned there is chance that her 3axel and 3F could be downgraded. That's the kind of work we expect from commentators.

To be fair - it is Chris Howarth (a former free skater and current coach) who is the one who usually makes the calls in real time. He wasn't on the Cup of Russia broadcast it was Simon Reed and Nicky Slater - i'm not sure what discipline Simon did (if any) but Nicky was an ice dancer and sometimes struggles spotting the free stuff in real time like Chris.

What is strange is that during Europeans and Worlds the commentators appear to get access to the protocols live as they will always confirm under-rotations and levels when the scores come up. They seem much more lost during the GPs without confirmation of what happened.

I didn't spot the under-rotation of Kimmie's Loop at all and looked for it at the time (haven't watched it back again). I counted during teh sprial sequence and didn't think she'd held it long enough but i have no idea why everything else got level 1. I also have no idea why Kostner can skate a load of crap and still comu up smelling of roses. It seems she's taken over Slutskaya's over scoring mantle?

Ant

 

[frozenhell]

What is strange is that during Europeans and Worlds the commentators appear to get access to the protocols live as they will always confirm under-rotations and levels when the scores come up. They seem much more lost during the GPs without confirmation of what happened.

I didn't spot the under-rotation of Kimmie's Loop at all and looked for it at the time (haven't watched it back again). I counted during teh sprial sequence and didn't think she'd held it long enough but i have no idea why everything else got level 1. I also have no idea why Kostner can skate a load of crap and still comu up smelling of roses. It seems she's taken over Slutskaya's over scoring mantle?

Ant

I guess commentators were broadcasting from studio because commentators can see protocol from score board if they broadcast from linkside.
Kimmie ddin't get level1 on every element. She got level3 on FSSp. I think she usually gets level2 on her layback (with occasional level3), so level1 on layback seems acceptable. Level1 on CCOSp? I don't know either.
I think at least kostner was deserving winner this time though she was hugely overmarked as usual.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
And all the officials for scoring the competition all sit in a row and do not see everything.