Philip Hersh: A painful sight: Hughes, Meissner after the fall(s)

[Bennett]

I think he got his point. But I didn't like the kind of language he used. So rude.

 

[MasterB]

Hearsch is the only one out there writing about my favorite passion. Unfortunately, is negative publicity.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[R.D.]

Sometimes the truth hurts.

I think that just about sums everything up succinctly. As unfair I think it is to group Meissner and Hughes in the same category, he brings up a very valid point. All the American ladies have just been plain awful thus far. I hope someone can step up and lead us out of this slump. Even a clean skate by Caroline Zhang at TEB could not dig her up out of 3rd place.

To digress a bit...I'm surprised at how much Meissner has grown as a skater, even with the falls. She really has transformed as far as her overall skating goes. She used to be snoozer material back in 2006, I remember...just sooooo boring, skating round and round in circles. But now? She's finally acquired that personality on the ice I've wanted her to get for so long now. And it's great. Unfortunately, it's still a little hard for me to watch her (in competition)...she falls again and again and it's tough to see the once happy girl be so dejected.

 

[fiercemao]

I think that just about sums everything up succinctly. As unfair I think it is to group Meissner and Hughes in the same category, he brings up a very valid point. All the American ladies have just been plain awful thus far. I.

Don't worry, US has Nina Jiang! See the new thread I just created to promote her!

 

[visaliakid]

And as much as getting a glimpse of a potential future skating star is enjoyable I must remark that it is clear all those videos are posted to YouTube illegally as they were recorded and uploaded illegally to YouTube from IceNetwork OnDemand archived and copyrighted streams.

IceNetwork has several teams of staffers that check YouTube accounts daily for their copyrighted videos, and that includes checking skating sites and forums for links to such videos on YouTube. Golden Skate should be concerned about having such links appear on this forum.

 

[shopgirl543]

The problem with Emily Hughes is that she is not taking her training seriously this year. She is not working with a coach on an every day basis and is not putting in the practice time that is needed to be competitive at the elite level.

However, if she just wants to just skate for fun with the goal of competing at nationals, that is fine. It is delusion though to think that she can somehow transform herself to the skater she was a few years ago. Her time has passed.

 

[Eddie Lee]

The top skaters usually combine difficulty with good execution. But 2nd-tier skaters are pushing themsleves very hard, and even some of the top people try elements that are iffy for them, so you get splatfests. But that's because skaters are putting a lot more into their programs; it's easier to go clean when you stroke-stroke-jump and stay on both feet during your footwork.

The hyperactivity in the FP is killing the jumps. How can you do all of the body contortions to achieve spectacular footwork over the length of the arena, then multiple postions of blurring spins, followed by all of the flexibility exertions in the spirals and have enough stamina to do a 6 (or 7) triple jump program? I say, impossible, outside of luck! I have watched all of the GP performances so far this season--and Zhang's Bompard FS was the one with least noticeable goofs. Otherwise, every performance this year has been marred with errors that cost many a skater of a decade ago an Olympic gold.

Are we getting to a point where a gold medal should be withheld, unless there is a performance in the competition which truly merits it. (The Tchaikowsky International Piano competition comes to mind.) I didn't see gold in any of the Ladies' Bompard performances.

(Note: It should tell us something when a skater of Mao's and Kim's talents are also plagued with errors....)

 

[Spun Silver]

OT, but I wonder what would be the impact of penalizing falls more severely.

Perhaps then skaters would not put in jumps they are not sure of hitting, or might simplify the other moves so as not to wear themselves out for the jumps.

 

[flying camel]

Well all in all I think things are looking brighter then previous seasons for the US. There was a while that the only one who could nail the jumps was Kimmie. Remember a couple of seasons Bebe and Alissa could barely land 1 triple per competition, This season has not been great but Alissa won a medal at SC and Zhang just won a medal at Trophy and Wagner didn't medal, but she looks very promishing heading into nationals, and Bebe landed most of her jumps this season. I am expecting a better performance from Kimmie at Cup Of Russia. It takes time. But I think we will be ok. I think we will be in contention for an Olympic medal.

 

[shopgirl543]

OT, but I wonder what would be the impact of penalizing falls more severely.

Perhaps then skaters would not put in jumps they are not sure of hitting, or might simplify the other moves so as not to wear themselves out for the jumps.

I think falls are severely punished. The skater gets a deduction of -1 on the overall score, -3 on the GOE for the jump, and could possibly have the jump downgraded.

 

[Winnipeg]

Point well taken. :thumbsup:

and Lu Chen who bombed in 97 Worlds and won the OBM in 98............

 

[fiercemao]

I think falls are severely punished. The skater gets a deduction of -1 on the overall score, -3 on the GOE for the jump, and could possibly have the jump downgraded.

I disagree. If you fall on a harder jump such as 3flip or 3lutz, you still end up with 2 points even factoring in -1 on the overall score. If you put 3flip/3lutz in the second half, you get even more. A downgraded triple is worth almost nothing.

It's my opinion, a fall on a jump should result in zero point automatically.

 

[Penny]

TEB thoughts

TEB
Emily didn't just underrotate most of her jumps, her usually superb spiral was marred in both programs by a jerky change of edge. And the music (Gone with the Wind) was too soft and sentimental for her in my opinion. Even as a Southerner whose great-grandfather fought for the Confederacy, I can't listen to Dixie without thinking bad thoughts. (And what on earth was the German pair thinking using Schindler's list?? The costumes at least were subdued, but still there were sequins--sorry off subject).

TEB: Yes, Mao had mistakes, but her long program was gorgeous with wonderful music and costume.

Caroline Z: The most expressive arms in figure skating. So... why do her arms go all crazy in jump preparation and the high kick? What do skating coaches do anyway? A ballet dancer couldn't keep her place in a top dance academy if she persisted with such bad technique this late in her training. And yet, Caroline alone stayed upright.

 

[gold12345]

Sandra Bezic commented to me last year that it wouldn't be long before a lady's career was from 14-17.

Sandra may have gotten too caught up in the overhype of Caroline, Mirai, etc.

I'm seeing the exact opposite trend. With the age limit as high as it is, a career is not likely to be over at 17. Just about all of the top ladies at the 2010 Olympics, if not all of them, will be 18+ years old, with several of them being in their 20's. While some U.S. skaters may give up skating to focus on college, plenty of others just balance school and skating at the same time. Worldwide, I would say ladies figure skating is being represented more and more by older competitors. All of the Ladies GP medalists so far aside from Zhang are 18+ years old.


As for Emily Hughes, I wasn't really under the impression that she was training very seriously for this season. Her focus seems to be pretty much mainly on school. But who would turn down a free trip to Paris? I'm sure she did her best to get ready, but I don't really think it was her goal to skate lights out here.


As for Hersh, my main problem with him is that he says the same stuff over and over again, and never has anything nice to say, If he would write a pleasant article once in a while, it would be easier to take his negative rants seriously.

 

[goldenpleasures]

TEB
And what on earth was the German pair thinking using Schindler's list?? .

Why on earth shouldn't they skate to Schindler's List? Their generation bears no responsibility for what happened in Nazi Germany.

 

[ManyCairns]

Count me among those who think it's CRAZY that a fall is penalized less than an UR. Come on, even with our new COP appreciation of good skating skills, surely we can see that buying icy real estate should cost a skater more than staying upright, even if the jump is 2-footed or URed.:disapp:

 

[Eddie Lee]

TEB
TEB: Yes, Mao had mistakes, but her long program was gorgeous with wonderful music and costume.

Caroline Z: The most expressive arms in figure skating. So... why do her arms go all crazy in jump preparation and the high kick? What do skating coaches do anyway? A ballet dancer couldn't keep her place in a top dance academy if she persisted with such bad technique this late in her training. And yet, Caroline alone stayed upright.

Alas, CoP has lowered our expectations of a perfect performance, because the system has made it nigh impossible to medal without a jam-packed program of points that requires incessant turning, spinning, squatting, writhing, stretching, jumping, whirlling, and spiraling, with no breathing room. It takes luck--in addition to grueling training--to accomplish all that without a mistake. So far our two most phenomenal skaters of the past 5 years or more--Mao and Yu-Na--are unable to achieve it!

 

[antmanb]

and Lu Chen who bombed in 97 Worlds and won the OBM in 98............

But let's not forget that in 1996/97 season Lulu had been injured all season, not competed at a single competition, battling with her federation, and had been back on the ice training for two and half weeks before worlds.

Ant

 

[jennylovskt]

I like Philip Hersh very much! I think he has vision. He was right on most of the times. He tells absolute truth. Even though the truth hurt, they are the truth.

 

[libby]

Phil's truths are slanted truths. He doesn't lie, but he only tells the parts of the story that further the agenda he wants to sell, and that agenda is that American figure skaters are failing completely and US figure skating is in total free fall.

He loudly laments the two US women who are doing poorly these days, Kimmie and Emily, but doesn't want to mention Alissa's GP silver medal or that Rachel and Ashley just missed the podium with 4th place finishes in their first GP events. He completely ignores the fact that the US has way more men (five) winning medals on the GP circuit this season than any other country in his zeal to insist that the US won't win any Olympic singles medals next year. And he doesn't mention our fast-rising young ice dance team of Davis & White or pairs team of McLaughlin & Brubaker at all, despite their impressive medal wins so far in their GP events this season, either.

Kimmie and Emily were stars before they completed puberty and had their final growth spurts. It is just a fact of life that a lot of the female skaters have difficulty with the transition from tiny "jumping beans" to adult skaters when their bodies and center of gravities change. It isn't a tragedy for the US team; other skaters will take their place. But Hersh needs to focus on the two US ladies skaters who are most affected by the puberty monster because it best fits his "US figure skating Armageddon" agenda. :sheesh: