Plushenko threatened with legal action

[alina]

I am wondering for a long time about the GP series which is a joke. Compared to other sports, in figure skating it´s possible to compete at 2-3 competitions (Nationals, (Euros), Worlds) for the whole year - that´s it and that´s like nothing.
I think the ISU should change the whole GP serie urgently.
The GP serie should be like a "first liga" of skting where the best skaters appeared. Only with the best skaters you can attract many spectators. I don´t mean the die hard fans (they go everywhere) but they don´t fill the arenas - I mean the others who perhaps say:" Oh figure skating in our town with Kwan, Cohen, Plushenko,.....it would be interesting to watch them once live"
It would mean more competitions for the skaters, less shows or "joke competitions" like Campells,etc.
In other sports it´s usual to compete every weekend and they also have strain with their bodies like ski jumpers and it works. They have masses of spectators.
It´s urgent to change something and I would like to see my favorite sport more in the focus of the public.
Because in the past skaters like Kwan refused to compete at the GPs and the ISU accepted I am not wondering about what Plushenko did this year. It was not clever of him (and his management) to try to do the shows at the same time like a GP, but perhaps this incident causes the ISU to think about their rules and the whole GP serie.
Alina

 

[Rgirl]

Things are getting curiouser and curiouser.
Rgirl

 

[libra 1]

Libra, did you honestly get an impression that Piseev was fully behind Plushenko?

Well, I don't quite understand your expression " Piseev was fully behind Plushenko", but I did see the letter signed by ISU Secretary General Freddi Schmidt where he confirmed the fax from Piseev to ISU asking to permit Zhenia to skate in Prague. Freddi's answer was "no" with a threat to sanction Russian FS Federation in case Zhenia will skate.

Libra -

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Tiger Woods doesn't do ALL the competitions.
The Venus gals do not do ALL the competitions.
The skiers don't do ALL the competitions.
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Joe

 

[Jaana]

Tiger Woods doesn't do ALL the competitions.
The Venus gals do not do ALL the competitions.
The skiers don't do ALL the competitions.
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Joe

Yes, that is true. On the other hand e.g. tennis and golf players have a LOT more competitions in a year than figure skaters. Besides the Nationals there are only five eligible competitions

- Grand Prix 2 plus possible final
- Europeans / Cup
- Worlds

per year for figure skaters. It is not too much to expect that the skaters participate in them all (unless if really injured).

If a skater is not willing to do these few events, maybe it is time to turn pro?

Marjaana

 

[alina]

Tiger Woods doesn't do ALL the competitions.
The Venus gals do not do ALL the competitions.
The skiers don't do ALL the competitions.
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Joe

they did more competitions than the skaters!
The way how figure skating is presented to the public obviously didn´t work. This sport is losing spectators and not increasing. There must be something wrong! Why can´t they try other ways for selling this sport? More top skaters at the competition,more competitions, other presenting of competitions....? That´s all I like to ask. But the most fans think "everything is fine, the main point is I see my favorite skater, my favorite skater can do what he wants" - nothing is fine. It´s losing compared with other sports. I like this sport very very much and I think that´s very sad what´s going on now.
But maybe I am totally wrong and somebody can explain it to me.
Alina

 

[mpal2]

Why should the skaters be willing to do more competitions when the ISU isn't willing to kick out bad judges either through incompetence or cheating. Where's the motivation as an athlete when you can't trust your sport to care about you. The ISU has proven that they are more interested in hiding and protecting the judges.

It's kind of the same as the skaters going out with body suits and masks without announcing their names. We will just give them a random letter or number and announce the winning letter/number.

If the skaters have to put up with public criticism and stand by their performances, the judges should stand by their marks.

 

[Mathman]

I am wondering for a long time about the GP series which is a joke...

I think the ISU should change the whole GP serie urgently. The GP series should be like a "first liga" of skating where the best skaters appeared. Only with the best skaters you can attract many spectators. I don´t mean the die hard fans (they go everywhere) but they don´t fill the arenas - I mean the others who perhaps say: "Oh figure skating in our town with Kwan, Cohen, Plushenko,.....it would be interesting to watch them once live"

It would mean more competitions for the skaters, less shows or "joke competitions" like Campells, etc.

Hi Alina. I don't agree that the three so-called cheesefest competitions are a joke. On the contrary, they seem to me to be the best competitions going. We do get to see the Kwans, Cohens and Plushenkos, and the events do make money, especially from corporate sponsorship and TV revenue. It seems to me that the skaters take the competitions seriously, presenting fully developed programs with triple-triples for the ladies, quads for the men, and the whole shebang.

Whether the Grand Prix is on the road to becoming a "joke" is another matter. This is what the ISU is worried about.

I noticed today that the official name of the December 3 contest is "The Marshalls World Cup of Figure Skating." I think it would be cool if they would bundle the three competitions together, let the skaters win points cumulatively, and then crown the "World Cup" champion at the end of the season and give them a million dollars.

Mathman

PS. The TV ads for Marshalls feature Plushenko as well as Michelle, Sasha and Tim Goebel. Does anyone know if Evgeny is really planning to skate?

 

[Arsenette]

Is Speedy making the rules up as he goes?

IMO yes. Quite frankly there is no rule making skaters go to these events. Why call them invitations (meaning they are allowed to decline entirely before the season starts) if they are now retroactively being penalized? Besides.. penalized for what? If that rule does not apply to all skaters it shouldn't be applicable at all. So basically it's a penalty for a skater who placed in the top 5 at Worlds (not an event that the GP qualifies you to enter) and decides for whatever reason to not do the GP? That smacks of arrogance.

IF this rule was to be applied they should bring it up in Congress and have all the member federations rule on it. Not institute some blanket threat with no certain penalty (it's only implied) and citing because they are losing money on TV revenues in the MIDDLE of the GP season. I mean good grief wait until the end of the season and have it tacked on to next season where people can prepare for this. This particular thing has been goin' on with a few skaters for a few years now. Even as far back and the previously named GP series (Champions Series).

I think it's irresponsible of the ISU to do something like this in teh middle of the season.. again without prior consent from Congress. Quite frankly if they pulled out with a note saying that they are injured and can't compete but want to skate in a show (hell they can just stand there and look pretty for all I care - everyone knows that show skating is not the same and competition skating) they should have teh opportunity to do so. I'm sick and tired of the ISU doing things half-baked and at all the wrong times. I know of one dance team that is actually coming in to compete in Cup of Russian despite being injured because they are afraid of losing out their chance at going for Worlds. This is WRONG! I'm sick and tired of the ISU doing this kind of crap.

 

[lise]

I'm tired of hearing everyone blame the ISU, saying they are wrong. When skaters decide to become elite athlete, they know that they need to follow the rules governed by the ISU.

If the skaters have no vested interest in the GP-turn pro. Michelle, imo, had no real reason to pull out the GP. Really, who doesn't need the time to prepare for Nats? If it wasn't for the GP, do you honestly think Michelle, Sasha, Plushy would be household names? If they don't like the rules, they have the option of turning pro. Why should these skaters be allowed to have exceptions? Unless they are that injured (I have doubts about some); they should be competing. If they don't want to compete in that season, I say fine, but don't expect to compete at Nats or Worlds. I'm in total agreement with the ISU on this. This rule has existed for awhile but they finally had to enforce it because too many skaters are withdrawing citing injuries, but we are finding out that they are competing or skating elsewhere. The federations all fall in the ISU blanket; national championships and worlds are ISU sanctioned events therefore, the ISU has every right to enforce the rules to all skaters.

Yes, skating is an expensive sport; however, at least when you compete, you do receive prize money. Check the ISU site, and you will find the amounts. http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-153579-170795-66590-0-file,00.pdf
This helps offset some of the expenses.

Unless a skater is injured, not competing or performing anywhere, the ISU would let them compete. Marshall's will be interesting to say the least..

 

[attyfan]

lise -- do you think that MK or Plushy would be household names if they did do the GP, but did not win multiple Worlds titles and medal at Olys? IMHO, Sasha's popularity has nothing to do with the GP, but has everything to do with Pres. Bush and her cell phone at Olys. The GP events have only been around since the late '70s/early '80's; it has only been a "series", leading up to a final since 1996. Also, as I understand it, the ISU approved pro-ams and invitationals like Marshall's to encourage skaters to stay Oly-eligible. The ISU needs to make up its mind. If the ISU still wants to keep skaters Oly-eligible, then giving them more control over their schedules, while letting them earn money at invitationals makes sense. Making the GP mandatory is OK as long as the ISU understands that some skaters that it was hoping to "keep", may instead turn pro.

 

[Doggygirl]

Lise...

IMHO, well said.

DG

 

[Mathman]

I don't know, Doggy Girl. You can't force a sporting event on the public and tell them it's important if the public is not willing to buy it. The Masters is a big deal in golf because it is a big deal, not because the PGA tells us it is a big deal and forces Tiger Woods to participate or else. Wimbledon is a big deal on its own merits, not because the World Tennis Association declares it to be.

Neither does the PGA tell Tiger Woods, you have to play in the Podunk Classic or we won't let you play in the Masters.

Same with the Grand Prix. If nobody wants to skate in it, and nobody wants to watch it, the ISU is just spitting into the wind when it issues decrees and ultimatums. Next they will be telling the TV networks, if you don't broadcast the GP series we are not going to let you broadcast the Olympics.

To me, the ISU exists to promote the sport of figure skating and to co-ordinate the activities of its member federations. Making self-important declarations and threats is not helpful, IMO.

Mathman

 

[Doggygirl]

Hi Mathman...

I don't think we disagree. Certainly no one can make "me" (or I assume anyone else) watch or support a particular sport. My only point is this.

To the degree skaters have started "opting out" in droves, I can understand the ISU's concern, to the degree they have agreements with the individual country federations about amateur athlete participation. While I would never suggest an injured athlete compete if they can't, it's definitely questionable in my opinion for an athlete like Plush (or anyone else in similar circumstances) to claim an injury, but do other comps and exhibitions while supposedly injured.

Whatever all of us on the sidelines think, the sport will evolve one way or the other. I just don't personally think that a 2-event per year sport will be televised much in the long run. I think it stands to reason that a poorly televised / followed sport will also offer less lucrative earning potential in the long run. I just hope all the elite skaters know that their OWN participation matters to their future, and don't go blaming everyone-else-but-them if it doesn't work out that way.

DG

 

[Arsenette]

This is not a question of whether or not you think the seeded skaters are justified in their actions or not. That's another thread entirely. I'm talking about the ISU attempting to justify itself by stripping the chance of "some" of the skaters that happen to be successful in ONE event that is competely independant of this series.

If you have to penalize them you can do what they did before. Fine then financially. They did it before (or at least threatened them to and they have a right to do so). To strip them of the ability to represent their country in an event they have a right to compete in by their own merit is another. To compete in Worlds, Euros and Olympics is "practically" a right. You have to compete against others from your own country to get there. To compete in the GP is a "privilidge" due to the success of skating in ONE event (World Championships). The ISU has no mandate to strip some elite skaters from doing that.

If you read the letter carefully they are only going after "some" skaters. There is no mention on skaters of lesser note that might do the same thing. NONE. This is about money they lose because they feel they cannot promote their own event because the certain skaters pull out for one reason or another. Quite frankly that has NOTHING to do with Worlds, Euros/4CC or Olympics. This is called Blackmail.

 

[Mathman]

Hey, DG, you are forcing me to consider more carefully what I think about this. (I have to be ready for when Plushenko calls to ask for my advice.)

What if Plushenko says, I don't want to skate in the Grand Prix in France, but I do want to skate in an event in the Czech Republic and I do want to skate in the Cup of Russia and I do want to skate in an exhibition in St. Petersburg. Does this decision hurt the future popularity of the sport of figure skating, or help it? It may lesson the control of the ISU over the sport, but does it hurt or help the long-term earning power of the skaters?

I was impressed that so many people in Prague were so eager to see Plushenko that they rose up in arms and went to the police when he was not allowed to participate.

If Shizuka decides to skate in the NHK trophy in Japan, but not in the Eric Bompard and instead does a lot of PR work for the sport in Japan and comes out with another Wow outing in Worlds .. is that bad or good for the sport?

If Sasha and Michelle skip Skate America but draw in the fans at Marshalls (which will later be shown on network TV), well, maybe Cinquanta doesn't like it, but I don't see how that hurts the sport as a whole. If more people want to see Marshalls than Skate America, you could say that our girls are doing their part to draw favorable attention to the sport and to enhance its long-range viability.

I just don't think we need to put all our eggs in the Grand Prix basket. if our goal is to make the sport more popular.

Mathman

 

[soogar]

Um, athletes DON'T have the RIGHT to compete in Worlds and the Olympics. Eligibility for these events are determined by the SPORT'S governing body. This is according the Olympic committee rules. Only recently have professional athletes been allowed in the Olympics , and they are not necessarily allowed in all the events. Some governing bodies allow professionals, others don't (I believe boxing does not permit professionals to compete, at least it was). The ISU is well within its rights to restrict the top skaters' rights to compete in the Olympics and Worlds if they refuse to comply with GP obligations and there really isn't anything that IOC will do about it. Plush and co. can refuse to adhere to this requirement and they will be plum out of luck come Olympic time. Also , you can say whatever you want about these skaters, but their desirability to marketers and shows is based on their Olympic and Worlds resume. Plus there will always be skaters to take Plush's and MK's place.

 

[Ptichka]

It seems that ISU is trying to have it both ways: it welcomes essentially proffessional athletes because to do otherwise really hurts the sport and it viewership, yet they want to control it. To me, a possible solution is a contract -- a skater signs that in a particular season he/she/they will compete in certain events, and get X amount of money in the process. Of course, that would mean ISU dealing with indivudual skaters as opposed to federations.

 

[Mathman]

Soogar, I think control of the sport is slipping out of the hands of the ISU. Naturally, they don't like it, but I think they will learn something about what power is if they try to kick the top skaters out of the Olympics. Speedy may think he is big stuff, but the sponsors and TV folks that shell out the dough will insist on getting their money's worth.

It will be Salt Lake City all over again. The big boys say jump, Speedy learns he's not one of the big boys, LOL.

Mathman

 

[RIskatingfan]

Also , you can say whatever you want about these skaters, but their desirability to marketers and shows is based on their Olympic and Worlds resume. Plus there will always be skaters to take Plush's and MK's place.

Absolutely. Skaters will follow the ISU rules because they want Olympic eligibility. Without Olympic eligibility there is no big titles and without big titles there are no millionaire contracts. And if Plushenko or Kwan don't want to abide, other skaters will and will be there to win World titles and Olympic titles.

I don't see how people can question the future of the sport because of something like this. The ISU and figure skating have survived huge scandals in the past, much worse stuff. Skaters come and go, World and Olympic champions come and go all the time. And we haven't even seen any indication from Plushenko, Kwan, etc, that they disagree with this or that they are outraged or anything like that. Kwan gave an interview the other day hinting that she would be competing in Turin. They know what they have to do.