Scathing article on Sasha and MK

[R.D.]

After reading the whole article, I still think he raises good points re. Cohen. I, too, don't think she has much of a chance at winning 2005 nationals (if she even goes) let alone 2005 Worlds. However, I think she HAS BEEN making progress. It's just been halted at the current time. Let me just put it bluntly: (I believe) this ain't your 2006 olympic champion.

From the article:

Wagner, choreographer for Olympic champion Hughes, thought she would have a chance to create Cohen's programs this season but the skater chose other people (Russians, of course).

Hmm...can anyone verify this? Did Cohen really have a say in the choreographer and her reduced schedule? Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[gezando]

I wish Hersh had been more forthcoming with names and actual quotes, instead of leaving us to guess whether he really has any inside information or not. He says:


Mathman

Yeah, and Woodward and Bernstein will tell you about the ID of deepthroat

 

[R.D.]

(Yet) another article on Cohen's situation:

http://www.usolympicteam.com/11506_27607.htm

 

[bronxgirl]

So was she practicing a quad or not? :scratch:

 

[nymkfan51]

It doesn't seem that she was training the quad bronxgirl (at least according to this article).
I found this quote by Sasha a bit troublesome ...
"It's been hectic," Cohen said. "I moved coaches [last December]. I moved training places [Simsbury to Hackensack]. The problems I had this summer ... the late start ... the pressures of a pre-Olympic year, figuring out not only what I need to do this year but 1 1/2 years down the road."

The part that troubles me is the statement about the pressures of a pre-olympic year. If she is feeling this much pressure now, what on earth will she do next year? Now with this back injury, she will be in an even more difficult situation going into next season.

 

[Fossi]

So was she practicing a quad or not? :scratch:

Actually, it has been mentioned in either articles or her journal that she was planning to have the quad ready this year. She is up against Miki Ando now, and that girl has been landing quads, so I think Sasha was itching to do it at SA. (just my thoughts) But yes, she and Robin have discussed the quad and 3/3's for this season, so I was expecting to see at least an attempt.

 

[gezando]

So was she practicing a quad or not? :scratch:

Early in this pre season she talked about the quad. I thought it is a good strategy to talk about, whether she actually practices or not.

From the article she is not.

 

[Doggygirl]

Latest Sasha Article...

I have to agree with nymkfan that the most recent linked article is disturbing due to the "frenzied" tone of the Sasha quotes. While there is no doubt that long term planning is an important component to competitive sports, and IMO all aspects of life, there is an equally important step by step process that has to take place. Sasha is so talented, and I hope she's not "out of balance" in terms of the 1 1/2 year plan v. the step by step process to get there.

For Sasha and MK, IMO they are right in their decisions not to compete GP to the degree that the decisions are based on injuries. Taking the reporting on Sasha at face value, it seems her decision truly is injury related. I very well might have missed something, but I'm not as clear that MK's decision was totally injury related.

When MK's decision first came out, there was discussion about the benefits (or not) of competing under COP. On the surface it made logical sense to me that it's a rules based system, and Michelle has ample opportunity to get feedback from professionals (coaches / judges) in addition to reading the rules for herself.

While I have not seen any performances yet from SA (as is the case for most of us) the early on feedback has sort of changed my mind. No spoilers here of course, and maybe my opinion will change again after some limited TV coverage, but I'm starting to think getting programs in front of the judges during GP might be very beneficial prior to World's. Again, if MK's pull out really is injury related, then no harm / no foul. If that's not really the case, I'm starting to wonder about that decision.

DG

 

[R.D.]

The part that troubles me is the statement about the pressures of a pre-olympic year. If she is feeling this much pressure now, what on earth will she do next year? Now with this back injury, she will be in an even more difficult situation going into next season.

I sort of picked up on that, too. That's one of the main reasons why I said I don't think she is going to win 2005 nats, 2005 worlds or 2006 olys. I'm sure she will try her best to prepare herself (or maybe at this point, I can't even be sure). If she thinks she's feeling it now, just wait till next year. Yikes! That's a pressure even the steel-nerved MK has folded under before. I can hardly imagine how she can get herself through that, especially w/all the problems and stress she's going through now. That said, I actually thought (based on what I read in her journal entries) that she downplayed what she really was going through and is just now saying it now that she has a chance to "rest".

However, I admire her for being straightforward in her explanations as to why she made the decisions she's made. It seems clear in her case she's backing out due to her injury, and she expresses clear disappointment about not being able to compete. Of course, some might argue that she, or any other skater, doesn't owe anyone an explanation (although I respectfully disagree) but she chose to do so. In Kwan's case it's not so clear to me why she pulled out but that's a whole 'nother thread (as is always with Kwan topics )

 

[gezando]

I think the need to know the exact details about every skaters decision is generally group into 3

1. For the die hard fans of the skater, they just want to know so they can appreciate their favorite for being straight forward. OTOH true fans understand, and don't get into such indignation if their favorite do not disclsoe every bit of details.

2. For the anti fans, they will criticize skaters for not being straight forward, but really do they care that much? OTOH when their least favorite disclose details, then the details are picked apart, or the reason is unclear to them or the reason is.not good enough

3. For the general public, average skating fans they don't care one way or another. I don't they they care if a skater declines a competition because they think it will help to pace themselves better, or because they have back pain. They wll even rejoice a bit to see some fresh faces in the competition.

Mathman, you freshly minted Sasha Coihen fan, I see that you have been doing a great job to encourage some others to come out of the closet you

 

[R.D.]

I think the need to know the exact details about every skaters decision is generally group into 3

1. For the die hard fans of the skater, they just want to know so they can appreciate their favorite for being straight forward. OTOH true fans understand, and don't get into such indignation if their favorite do not disclsoe every bit of details.

2. For the anti fans, they will criticize skaters for not being straight forward, but really do they care that much? OTOH when their least favorite disclose details, then the details are picked apart.

3. For the general public, average skating fans they don't care one way or another. I don't they they care if a skater declines a competition because they think it will help to pace themselves better, or because they have back pain. They wll even rejoice a bit to see some fresh faces in the competition.

I'm not too sure I agree...I don't believe there is any qualification or "test" you must pass to become a "true" fan of any skater. There are several MK fans disappointed in her for the decision she made at the last minute not to go to SA. That doesn't make them any less of a fan, does it? Being disappointed in someone if you are their fan doesn't make you any less of a fan, or disqualify you from being a fan of theirs. Likewise, you can not like/not care about someone and still respect his/her decisions. Some "haters" might rag on the details, some "lovers" might praise the decision to no end. But just because you may express disappointment or even some resentment from a decision made by a skater(s) doesn't mean you don't like them or aren't their fan. And supporting a decision or wanting to know the details should NOT mean you are a fan of that skater.

I may not be an MK fan, but I still respect her decision. (The only problem I had with it is that I thought it was kind of sudden and thought she should have explained her decision more clearly, but that's not my business anyway. She should be able to do what she wants.)

 

[Doggygirl]

Hi Gezando...

I would respectfully suggest there is a fourth group out there (and maybe more).

I personally am not an "uber fan" of any one skater, nor an "anti-fan" of any one skater. And as a BIG fan of figure skating overall, I would not classify myself as "general public" either.

I agree with you that there are "uber" and "anti" fans out there. No harm, no foul. but for us overall FS fans who just want to see great performances and respect those no matter who puts them out there, a carefully considered discussion of competitive decisions by skaters isn't necessarily "anti" or "uber." It's not even personal. It's just a discussion about the merits of various strategies.

I personally agree with you that no skater owes us anything by way of explanation for decisions. God Bless America - free country!! They are in the public FS eye, so speculation is inevitable. As long as it's respectful, it's OK by me.

DG

 

[NorthernLite]

I'd already considered the possibility that Sasha was dealing with pre-Oly year jitters.
I think MK is also jittery in her own way. It seems to me she's doing her best to avoid CoP, which is putting off the inevitable. As I've said here and/or elsewhere, the more I think about it, the more I don't like her backing out of SA at the last minute without a really good explanation. Unless there *is* something else which she didn't want to share publicly. Lawd knows, lots of people protect her.

 

[roundboypete]

I just reached Michelle for comment! She sang me a little song:

Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doin',
Take it from the people who know!
Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doin',
Zip your lip and play it slow!
Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doin',
if they Ask, just give 'em a "D'oh!"
'Cause when your left hand starts to dippin' in your business,
Your business ain't your business no mo'!​

Pete

 

[nymkfan51]

Well, I would consider myself a serious MK fan ... but even I questioned the timing of her withdrawal. I have thought about it a lot in the last week, and have pretty much come to the conclusion that we will never know for sure exactly who said what to who about deadlines ... and we won't know for sure when exactly MK made the final decision.
My thought (and it is only my opinion) is that she probably intended to go, but wanted to make sure she could be ready in time ... thus the last minute decision.
I am thinking that she has seen the changes in how her body handles training in the last few years, and suspected that she might not be able anymore to get ready for the new season as quickly as she used to. Maybe her training can't be as intense as before and she needs a few more months of it to be where she feels comfortable. I truly believe she wants to make one more run at the Olympics, and she realizes that at her age she will face some problems she never had to before. I have no doubt she understands how important it will be getting to understand COP, but she probably weighs that against the fact that training the way she has tried to this summer might just cause an injury that ends any chances of going to Turino.

This is all speculation on my part, I know. The fact is that I love her for giving me so much joy over the years, and I'm willing to cut her some slack here. I would just love to see her at one more Olympics and I hope it works out for her.

 

[gezando]

i understood perfectly from the usfsa article that Michelle thinks it benefit her to rest up more and not do the GP series. So what is so unclear about that? She gave a reason, if people don't like the reason it is not her problem.

I think Michelle is more traditional when it comes to telling the world about her decisions or details. Like many skaters before her, e.g. Nancy, Kristi she does not keep an official website, (I know Kristi has one, but Kristi's official website does not give a lot of details about her personal life or thoughts) Some other skaters keep official websites and update their fans often with every little thing, when they sneeze, when they buy a new pair of boots. Some skaters like Jenny Kirk ( who used to have one) did not do as much update, but the once every 2 - 3 month journal was always thoughtful, and detail. Some fans who are new to the sport are used to reading these update from their favorites, so they expect the same from Michelle.

Off topic again:

i think Michelle is traditional in the way she handles the endless questions about why she place behind other skaters. I remember in world 1999, she was outskated by Maria. She also had a bad respiratory infections. There were reports all over the net that she looked white as sheet, and was hanging onto the boards for air. Yet when the commentators asked her whether the respiratory infection had anything to do with her placement, she said, no. "Actually I felt very strong, too strong and messed up..." Michelle did not want to take anything away from Maria's win. I think some other skaters may offer the reason that they have the flu or an infection. So that is Michelle's style, her fans love her for it, and her detractor may rag on "not being straight forward enough" for him becausse his favorite skater is so straight forward .

 

[Mathman]

That was a thoughtful and well-stated post, Gezando. I agree with both of the points you made.

Mathman

 

[Mathman]

Mathman, you freshly minted Sasha Coihen fan, I see that you have been doing a great job to encourage some others to come out of the closet you

Well, someone has to take the lead, Gez. I knew there were a lot of us secret Sasha fans who have been laying low because we were afraid of the Kwaniacs.

MM

 

[R.D.]

i understood perfectly from the usfsa article that Michelle thinks it benefit her to rest up more and not do the GP series. So what is so unclear about that? She gave a reason, if people don't like the reason it is not her problem.

I think Michelle is more traditional when it comes to telling the world about her decisions or details. Like many skaters before her, e.g. Nancy, Kristi she does not keep an official website, (I know Kristi has one, but Kristi's official website does not give a lot of details about her personal life or thoughts) Some other skaters keep official websites and update their fans often with every little thing, when they sneeze, when they buy a new pair of boots. Some skaters like Jenny Kirk ( who used to have one) did not do as much update, but the once every 2 - 3 month journal was always thoughtful, and detail. Some fans who are new to the sport are used to reading these update from their favorites, so they expect the same from Michelle.

Off topic again:

i think Michelle is traditional in the way she handles the endless questions about why she place behind other skaters. I remember in world 1999, she was outskated by Maria. She also had a bad respiratory infections. There were reports all over the net that she looked white as sheet, and was hanging onto the boards for air. Yet when the commentators asked her whether the respiratory infection had anything to do with her placement, she said, no. "Actually I felt very strong, too strong and messed up..." Michelle did not want to take anything away from Maria's win. I think some other skaters may offer the reason that they have the flu or an infection. So that is Michelle's style, her fans love her for it, and her detractor may rag on "not being straight forward enough" for him becausse his favorite skater is so straight forward .

But there were also reports that MK's back was bothering her, and that was cited by some people as a "contributing factor" to why she pulled out. Then you get the comment from her that "it always works for me". And lastly, she said during the Campbell's broadcast that "yes", she was going to be there. Doesn't sound too clear cut to me, but I really don't care. She's out of the GP, not for the first time, and why she is probably isn't relevant.

The only skater I know of that updates her fans with "every little thing" is SC. I think Kirk, Lipinski, and maybe a few others have journals as well, with entries every 3 or so months. I think many of Sasha's fans do take her journal entries for granted and get "spoiled" knowing her every move, if you know what I mean. ("Wow, she hasn't updated her journal in 6 days, what's going on w/her?") MK, w/out an official site, is a more quiet, private person and always keeps people speculating about her. It's always funny how her every move is always scrutinized, talked about, creating 10+ page threads on forums, etc.

I don't think it's just her detractors that might "rag on" her for "not being straightforward", for the reasons I mentioned in an earlier post. I don't "rag on" MK (although I am critical of her at times) but had she simply said, "I'm pulling out because of (site reason here- back hurting and can't do this, etc.)", that would have been good enough.

 

[Lucy25]

The only skater I know of that updates her fans with "every little thing" is SC. I think Kirk, Lipinski, and maybe a few others have journals as well, with entries every 3 or so months. I think many of Sasha's fans do take her journal entries for granted and get "spoiled" knowing her every move, if you know what I mean. ("Wow, she hasn't updated her journal in 6 days, what's going on w/her?")

But the thing is, she *doesn't* tell her fans every little thing. Her journals are very superficial at best. She talks about cooking, shopping, her dress designs and her fashion shoots. Once in a while she will mention that her skating practices are going well, that she's working hard and having fun learning new things. Admittedly, her journals are a nice way to keep in touch with her fans, but they rarely give any real information. It makes me chuckle to then read her fans remark how "open and honest" she is.

I have read several conflicting articles that mention Sasha working on 3/3's. Most quote Robin as saying that they have had no time to work on them, and certainly not the quad. So I was pretty surprised to read in the one article where Sasha said she had been working hard on them before her back was injured. Based on everything else I have read, and her lack of actual training time, I tend to believe she has had no time at all to practice them.