Song of the South -- Should it be re-released?

[Ladskater]

This movie is going to be very offensive to a lot of people. So why rerelease it? I think this is a part of our culture that America can survive without. Prejudice, bigotry, and racism is prejudice, bigotry, and racism no matter what the setting, historical reference, or how you qualify it. As for GWTW I don't think it is loved by all.

Then I guess we may as well turn in our copies of Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn and To Kill Mockingbird. People forget that these stories were set in a time period that does not exist anymore and were relevant to that time period. I am sure people can decide for themsleves what to take away from a movie or book. What about "Les Misarables" by Victor Hugo which examined what took place during the French Revolution. Should the French deny such attrocities ever took place? How about Andrew Lloyd Webber's turning the story into a musical to entertain us? When people talk about not having the freedom to examine a piece of literature or even a movie it becomes something called censorship - end of story.

 

[Mathman]

LAD, if only it were that simple. Many people think, for instance, that pornography ought to be censored -- or at least, not used in schools to teach children the lessons of life.

Many educators think that books with a lot of swear words in them are inappropriate for certain age groups.

Yet this is all "censorship -- end of story."

MM

 

[Piel]

When I see something that uses the "N' word or shows salvery it makes me sick to my stomach. It is the same sick feeling I get when someone is executed under the death penalty.

I have several African American girls in my GS troop. Over the years I have come to love these girls and their families. When I see something that is hurtful to them it makes me so angry I can't see straight. I just don't think anyone's need for entertainment supercedes another's dignity.

 

[PrincessLeppard]

Then I guess we may as well turn in our copies of Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn and To Kill Mockingbird. People forget that these stories were set in a time period that does not exist anymore and were relevant to that time period. I am sure people can decide for themsleves what to take away from a movie or book. .

Did you read my post? I have taught To Kill a Mockingbird. I framed it all in its historical context. But that didn't stop the white kids from tormenting the black kids. Do I think it should be censored? No. But I had to come down HARD on those kids who got out of line, as well as deal with traumatized 14 year olds. It was not a pleasant point in my teaching career, and as magnificent as the message in the books is, many kids miss it. I have not taught the book again.

(But I teach other controversial books now...Fahrenheit 451, for example. )

 

[heyang]

I tend to agree with Lad on this issue. Yes - the N word is offensive and I would never think call anyone by that word. However, it is part of our history and should not be hidden away.

Previous generations did not talk about adultery, affairs, pornography, child abuse, alcolholism, drug abuse, rape and pedophilia. All of these things are wrong. By not speaking about them, people were getting away with wrong doing and/or harming others.

People need to be aware that these things do happen and how much harm this can do to people. This pertains to stereotyping and racism, too. Open dialog is needed to prevent wrongs.

As the Rodgers & Hammerstein song put it, 'You've Got to be taught' to hate. Young children are typically curious about differences, but only learn to fear these differences from the adults in their lives. Not discussing differences doesn't mean they don't exist. If anything, young children are much more sensitive to hurt feelings and will avoid hurting someones feelings.

 

[show 42]

I would love to see "Song of the South" again and have been waiting for its release for many years. As a young girl, I thought that "Uncle Remus" was just a wonderful storyteller. African Americans have been characterized in many different ways throughout the history of movies, as have other minority groups. The wonderful stories told throughout the movie are extremely entertaining, I think. Censorship is censorhip anyway you look at it..........42

 

[Piel]

I don't think you can think of racism as just another bad thing that's happened in history. It is so much more than that. The "Why the Negro is Black" story tells how everyone started out as black but when given the choice they all ran to dip into the water that turned them white. It gives the message that it is better to be white than black. Call me strange but I don't find that entertaining.

 

[show 42]

I have never used "Uncle Remus" or any of his fables in my classroom, but I have used Aesop, Aninsi the spiderman from Africa, and of course, folk tales from our own Native Americans. These tales usually explained some occurance in nature, in life, through storytelling. The tale of the Indian paintbrush wildflower was told as paintbrushes given to a young Native American artist who wanted color for his buffalo hide paintings. Just a story form to explain............ridiculous of course, and if taught as such, I think acceptable. In the Uncle Remus story, I think the explanation as to why people ran to the water to be a different color could be explained as "greediness", the need to be different, and not necessarily that "white" is better. It's in the interpretation.........I think.........42

 

[Piel]

Here is a quote from Roger Ebert explaining why he feels it should not be rereleased.

I am against censorship and believe that no films or books should be burned or banned, but film school study is one thing and a general release is another," Ebert wrote in his Movie Answer Man column for the Chicago Sun-Times (www.suntimes.coindeebert.html). "Any new Disney film immediately becomes part of the consciousness of almost every child in America, and I would not want to be a black child going to school in the weeks after 'Song of the South' was first seen by my classmates."

The bottom line for me is this. Is the entertainment value of the film worth more than the pain even one African American child might suffer at the hands of other children who have seen the film?

 

[show 42]

I must admit that the last time I viewed the film I was a young girl. Perhaps my memory has faded over time........I only remember that I enjoyed the music, the delightful animated characters, the interaction of animation and real life actors, a technique that is very common place today. But mostly I remember the smiling face of the actor who portrayed "Uncle Remus" and the flair he had for storytelling. These are different times of course and if the film is now viewed as racially offensive and has no redeeming quality whatsoever, then perhaps it should stay in the vault..............42

 

[katherine2001]

Interesting read.

This line caught my eye: "He made it clear that Br'er Rabbit and the other characters in the stories who represented blacks were outsmarting the "white" characters with their brains rather than brawn."

I read the books as a child (my grandmother had them). I never thought that Brer Rabbit was black. Yes, he was hip, cool and sassy. And he outsmarted the wicked Brer Fox and his dumb sidekick, Brer Bear.

But the most famous story in the series is the Tar Baby. The Tar Baby is black, coal black, and this is the one time that Brer Rabbitt was the one who got outsmarted. Brer Rabbit got mad because when he said "mornin'" to the Tar Baby, the Tar Baby wouldn't answer. To me (as a child) I got the distinct impression that what aggravated Brer Rabbit about the situation was that he (Brer Rabbit), being white, was in a superior station to the black boy, and thus the Tar Baby's silent snub was not to be born and he deserved a good beating for his insolence.

As for the Walt Disney movie, it seems innocuous enough to me.

BTW there are a lot of Walt Disney short cartoons from the 1930s that present black people and Africans as grotesque caricatures. These are not shown any more. The Warner Brothers cartoons from this era have been edited to leave out references to slavery and race (including that great Buggs Bunny one, where Yosemite Sam is a southern plantation owner, with his dog Beuregard -- Buggs: "What's this I hear about you beating slaves? Write to me at my Gettysburgh address!")

Mathman

My nephew (who will turn 25 in June) loved the Brer Rabbit tales. My grandfather grew up in the mountains of North Carolina and could do all the dialects. My aunt got Adam the book when he was quite little and he just loved all those stories. In fact he loved them so much that when my sister-in-law was expecting his sister (when Adam was almost 3 years old), he would always answer that he was hoping for a tar baby when he was asked whether he was hoping for a brother or a sister!

I hope they do re-release the movie. I haven't seen it yet, but I would love to.

 

[Mathman]

What a cool post! Thanks for sharing that, Katherine.

I will repeat, that I do not see anything objectionable in the Disney movie, or in the many versions of the Brer Rabbit stories that have been published strictly as children's story books over the last hundred years. (You can leave out "Why the Negro is Black -- that's not about Brer Rabbit anyway.)

IMHO, presenting Uncle Remus as a kindly old story-teller, while this may be a stereotype, it's a good one.

Professional Americana scholars can wrangle over the deeper sociolgical implications of the time and place where the books were written. Indeed, this would be a great college film course: compare and contrast the racial stereotypes in Song of the South, Gone with the Wind and Birth of a Nation. But I think that children can enjoy Brer Rabbit without being drawn into this dispute.

About the Tar Baby, he was drawn really cute in the book that I had, and this was the one story where Brer Rabbit came out on the losing end and deserved his comeuppance. (But he got out of it in the next story -- oh, please don't throw me in the briar patch! )

Mathman

 

[Tonichelle]

Toni, you have to be so careful with this stuff. I have no problem with Song of the South being shown, as long as its historical context is also given. But kids are kids. When I taught "To Kill a Mockingbird" in very white Lincoln, Nebraska, guess what the white kids were suddenly calling the one black girl in the school? That word never popped up before that, so I now understand why some African-Americans do get a bit riled up when certain books are taught. As the great Atticus Finch says in the book, "Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes."

I guess it depends on the demographics... we never had an issue with the "N" word in Kenai... or really black and white problems at all. Granted Kenai is not the entire US//World but still...

I think what the schools do now is no better, really. We go through school thinking "black people around the turn of the century were stupid because they were uneducated" when really they weren't. Just because they were unable to attend school does not make them stupid, but you read the history books and that's the only way they think kids will show compassion. "Look at the poor kids who can't go to school so they grow up uneducated" which "uneducated" to many is just a fancy word for stupid.

There's a fine line, and I realize that, but I think that because they anticipate a backlash they are basically telling people "you should be offended." And honestly, hollywood has no business telling me what I should or shouldn't think. Let me see the movie and make my own opinion. YES some will be upset, but that doesn't stop hollywood from showing all Christians as bigoted bible thumpers with no intelligence or feelings(not that it's entirely the same thing, but a stereotype is a stereotype)... so why is THIS movie being black listed when other movies are heralded for being "THE BEST" (ie Gone with the Wind) What makes Song of the South that much more horrible?

 

[Arsenette]

I'm all late to this discussion but yeah.. it should be rereleased.

I can't stand when "censors" decide what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. Let us decide. I know when Turner got a hold of the Warner Brother's library he changed history. He edited about 90% of all of the library (the cartoons - have not idea about the movies) and changed a LOT of my childhood. I remember seeing Tom and Jerry with the "old black lady" with a heavy southern accent saying "THOMAS".. now it's all changed and even her legs are edited out where Tom is not in the picture... they changed endings they changed voices.. Bugs Bunny the same way too. A LOT of that library was altered... I HATED it.. never did I connotate that as a child as how "blacks were supposed to be portrayed" or anything like that :disapp:

Disney has systematically being releasing all of their library in stages. Why not release this one? It's part of history - like it or hate it. Let the parents decide of it's appropriate for their kids not the censors. What's next - books and other movies? Maybe we should organize a burning? There are a HECK of a lot more inflamatory books, movies and art that pale in comparison to this and we managed to bypass it, accept it, reject it on our own. Yes Disney has an impact but so do parents. To automatically dismiss parent's ability to decide what is best for their own children based on moral, social and religious belief is IMO condescending. It's not our fault that some parents have lacked this ability and allowed their child to be raised by Hollywood - for the rest of the sane world we can make our own choices out of the literally billions of images that are thrown at us by the minute.

 

[Piel]

The message I am getting from these posts is that you all don't care if kids get their feelings hurt as long as your childhood memories are not disturbed?

 

[PrincessLeppard]

I think what the schools do now is no better, really. We go through school thinking "black people around the turn of the century were stupid because they were uneducated" when really they weren't. Just because they were unable to attend school does not make them stupid, but you read the history books and that's the only way they think kids will show compassion. "Look at the poor kids who can't go to school so they grow up uneducated" which "uneducated" to many is just a fancy word for stupid.

There's a fine line, and I realize that, but I think that because they anticipate a backlash they are basically telling people "you should be offended." ... so why is THIS movie being black listed when other movies are heralded for being "THE BEST" (ie Gone with the Wind) What makes Song of the South that much more horrible?

What the hell kind of school did you go to that you were taught blacks were "stupid"? As a military brat, I attended schools all over the world and I NEVER was taught that. Nor was I told they were "uneducated."

Also, "Song of the South" is aimed at children, GWTW is not. Children aren't the best at making critical distinctions between racism and historical context. My 8th graders couldn't do it.

I'm with Piel on this. Sometimes, folks, it isn't all about you.

 

[Mathman]

It's tricky what kids will pick up on. We had a student visitors' day at the University and I gave a little talk to a group of 8th and 9th graders about the mathematical achievements of dynastic Egypt. "According to the myths of that civilization, mathematics was bestowed upon mankind as a gift from the benevolent Ibis-headed god Thoth (show picture...)"

Well, the next day I got in trouble with the parents for teaching these children to worship false gods and idols.

I guess my position is that, vigilant though we must be in confronting the scourge of racism that has bedeviled our society throughout its history, this particular movie is at best a mild and innocent enemy. And I do not see any reason why the Brer Rabbit tales cannot be used in schools to teach about folk culture, just like all the stories from around the world of the "How the leopard got its spots" variety. I think we have other fish to fry and other battles to wage on the racism front. For instance...

Guess what? "Little Black Sambo" has recently (2003) been reissued in England.

http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/sambo.htm

There was a similar discussion about whether this is harmfully racist or not. (Clearly yes, in this case, don't you all think?) Of course in England in the 1890s a "nigger" meant an Indian or Pakistani, but never mind that. Some scholars argued that this story is not offensive because it shows Little Black Sambo (and his mother, Big Black Mumbo and his father, Big Black Jumbo) as clever and resourceful. This story, so it was argued, is no more offensive than that of the little blond girl who stole from the three bears.

I don't think so.

Mathman

 

[Mathman]

PrincessLeppard, I think you misunderstood the thrust of Toni's last post. I think what Toni was saying is that what is taught in school history books is that black people at the turn of the century did not have much opportunity to receive an education. Children do not have sufficient analytic powers to distinguish between that and "stupid." Thus children come away with the opposite conclusion from the one that the schools are trying to teach.

What is needed (I know you agree with this Toni, since I am putting words in your mouth, LOL) -- what is needed is emphasis on and celebration of the pioneering struggles of the great educators of the day, such as Booker T. Washington, and of the great scholars and intellectuals like W.E.B. DuBois.

OT -- Mrs. MM's great grandmother was one of the first graduates of Spelman college, in 1901. The early struggles of the historically black colleges would make a cool and inspiring research project for kids. Kids regardless of race are quick to identify with the stuggles of the underdog and have strong feelings about fair play.

Mathman

 

[PrincessLeppard]

PrincessLeppard, I think you misunderstood the thrust of Toni's last post. I think what Toni was saying is that what is taught in school history books is that black people at the turn of the century did not have much opportunity to receive an education. Children do not have sufficient analytic powers to distinguish between that and "stupid." Thus children come away with the opposite conclusion from the one that the schools are trying to teach.

But MM, I *never* thought black people were stupid. Granted, I appear to have grown up in a much more diverse environment than she did, but, seriously, it never crossed my mind. I certainly didn't go through school thinking what she is implying she and everyone else thought due to teaching methods.

What is needed (I know you agree with this Toni, since I am putting words in your mouth, LOL) -- what is needed is emphasis on and celebration of the pioneering struggles of the great educators of the day, such as Booker T. Washington, and of the great scholars and intellectuals like W.E.B. DuBois.

Mathman

That would be fab.

 

[heyang]

Piel has point that it's a matter of perspective. As a person of Chinese descent, some racial jokes made without historical reference do offend me - regardless of whether they are about Asians, Africans, Europeans, etc. I have some friends who are very insensitive about such things, which probably explains why I don't count them amongst by closest friends. My best friends are the ones who are at least aware that an innocent statement might offend.

I've also noticed that it's ok for one black person to call another black person the 'n' word, but it's not ok for anyone else to do so. I wouldn't want someone who wasn't Chinese to call me a chink either, but don't feel the same if someone who is Chinese says it. It's a case of "it's ok for me to say because I know what both sides are about."