That was the worst SP ever for US women (OG)

[Ophelia]

I am rolling my eyes at all the hand wringing and teeth gashing going on because it's been this exact same spheel for 4+ years.

At this point, I'm not surprised by how US ladies perform. I'm just surprised people are surprised. Talk about hopeless optimism.

I don't see US ladies overtaking the Russians or Japanese anytime soon, and with the incoming Koreans, the US may be pushed even further down the rankings.

 

[Miss Ice]

*Alysa Liu quietly stands in a corner*

The U.S. ladies time will come.

 

[Ophelia]

The Russians finished 9th and 10th in 2010. Skating is cyclical. Russians are on top now but won't be forever. Will the US ladies come back? It's certainly possible. Gracie Gold had the talent to be at the top. Why isn't it possible that another, equally talented skater (but without the emotional issues) will arise? Didn't we see this in men's skating with Nathan Chen?

Nathan has not risen to the top yet, and right now he shows signs of going the GG route, which isn't encouraging.

 

[BossT]

American "experts" talk here about what they DO NOT understand at all!
It's time to accept the truth and not argue! From your stubbornness in the results of young figure skaters USA WILL NOT!
They have to PICK FROM 11-12 YEARS, PARTICIPATE IN THE LARGE INTERNATIONAL ISU COMPETITIONS STILL JUNIORS AND WINS THERE! Otherwise, it can not!
The judges do not know you? - here are the low scores (both TES + PCS)! And bye, go home!
Alina's performances (and results!) in seniors were also very difficult. At both stages of the grand prix there were misfires, but in the incredible FP it was in the FIGHTS stretching her victories! No undeserved points were received or receive now!

 

[chopinskate]

I think it so depends on the athlete. Some of them need their parents for longer than others. I do think you need to leave the nest at some point. I'm not sure 12 is that age, personally. But then I'm not a parent with a child who has huge potential or the drive to be a champion.

I don't think 12 is the right age either. But I do think an athlete (and also an academic, but that's beside the point) has to start developing mental fortitude earlier than others. In their second year as a junior, maybe.

 

[jenaj]

Nathan has not risen to the top yet, and right now he shows signs of going the GG route, which isn't encouraging.

Disagree. Nathan is close to the top at age 18. I think he will win Worlds this year. And I don't see signs of his "going the GG route" just because he had two bad skates after going undefeated the rest of the season. Gracie was always held back by her nerves. I don't see nerves as Nathan's problem, other than the nerves that normally go with the Olympics.

 

[chuckm]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ram-ever-u-s-womens-figure-skating/357458002/

My idea is that the gap the American ladies have is due to the fact that these girls are not competitive at the age of 13-14 because they learn all their triples and combos later.

I guess you have never looked at results from US Nationals at the Intermediate and Novice levels. Many skaters at these levels already have triples and combos and many are as young as 12. In fact the current JUNIOR champion Alysa Liu is too young for the JGP this coming fall. Her FS: 2a, 3z+3t, 3f+1lo+3s, 3lo, 3z, 3f, 2a+2t

 

[Ophelia]

Disagree. Nathan is close to the top at age 18. I think he will win Worlds this year. And I don't see signs of his "going the GG route" just because he had two bad skates after going undefeated the rest of the season. Gracie was always held back by her nerves. I don't see nerves as Nathan's problem, other than the nerves that normally go with the Olympics.

Uh, he went undefeated in a field where many of the top men were absent. Context matters.

 

[reneerose]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ram-ever-u-s-womens-figure-skating/357458002/

My idea is that the gap the American ladies have is due to the fact that these girls are not competitive at the age of 13-14 because they learn all their triples and combos later. I don't really know the reason, maybe due to this philosophy US coaches and influencer have where we should praise more the maturity in figure skating. But let me remind you few facts:

1) By the time Russians and Japanese skaters move into seniors, they are already much more prepared to win medals.

Part of this is 13-14 year old women's bodies are still changing and perhaps American training is looking out for this more? I'm thinking post puberty the jumping thing is easier to get right because one's body isn't still in a growth spurt. I remember reading that about Christina Gao. Also look at Tara and Nathan having hip-related surgeries from the wear and tear of rotating jumps. A "skating boot camp" mentality with parents who are seen but not heard maybe culturally doesn't work as well here in the United States. Tom Z and Tammy Gambill are top coaches in the States, but they aren't the ONLY factors in their students not medalling at Worlds or the GPF. A mix of the best of both countries' coaching approaches/mentalities could help.

 

[russianfan]

Do you think Eteri's approach would work in the North America? Parents tend to be very involved here and I've always got the impression that Eteri frowns on that.

Hard to say because i've never seen their trainings other than from videos, which aren't reliable sources to build your opinion about a person on. I think she is successful in Russia because she knows russian mentality very well and use it right. Her possible success in US would depend on many factors, such as if parents of the skaters can trust her completely and not question her methods, if skaters can have a lot of time to train with her and so on. Judging by the posts on this forum i would rather say no, because people are too sensitive/soft(or it just seems to me like that) and understand some things wrong. For example i haven't seen any discussions about Eteri's facial expressions on russian resources, but here, it seems like the main thing everyone wants to discuss, "does she like Evgenia or Alina more"

And one more thing about parents, Eteri once said that for her "The best parents are those whom I do not see".
Also i believe there are completely different relations between people and coaches/teachers in Russia and in USA/Canada. I feel like in Russia people used to respect coaches/teachers/etc more so they do not question their methods that much, especially when the result is there.

 

[yelyoh]

*Alysa Liu quietly stands in a corner*

The U.S. ladies time will come.

As yes lest we forget.

 

[mrrice]

The gap would be closer if Russian girls did not receive inflated/undeserved PCS. 37 PCS for Zagitova is just SHAME. Doesn't change the outcome of the event, but the scores should be MUCH closer than it is now (of course, if American ladies were to skate clean)

This has NOTHING to do with the Russians. The US Ladies had the worst showing by any major federation that I have seen in years!! We shouldn't sugar coat this. We have a problem producing high caliber consistent skaters and it's been that way for a while now. Even if Med were to get silver tonight, she's never out of contention at any event. Our ladies are OUT of this event and even a 7 triple "Cracker" of an LP won't get any of them near the podium. It didn't work for Nathan and it won't work here.

Thank goodness for that team medal because other than the Shibs Bronze, that's all we brought home from Korea.

 

[R.D.]

Yup. Sure was.

And yes, the US had little chance from the get-go. As I’ve said elsewhere - I haven’t been this disinterested in an Olympics in a LONG time. Heck, I didn’t even stay up to watch the whole thing last night, shut it down after Medvedeva I think. To think 14-15 years ago I was streaming radio Eurosport in the middle of the night for Worlds full of anxiety - hah, the “good old days”...

Anyway, I feel the state of US skating has been beaten to death...clearly this is the new normal, and all US fans that choose to continue following skating should more or less accept that this is and will be the case.

 

[MiRé]

This has NOTHING to do with the Russians. The US Ladies had the worst showing by any major federation that I have seen in years!! We shouldn't sugar coat this. We have a problem producing high caliber consistent skaters and it's been that way for a while now. Even if Med were to get silver tonight, she's never out of contention at any event. Our ladies are OUT of this event and even a 7 triple "Cracker" of an LP won't get any of them near the podium. It didn't work for Nathan and it won't work here.

Thank goodness for that team medal because other than the Shibs Bronze, that's all we brought home from Korea.

That's why I said "of course, if American ladies were to skate clean." Like can you please read the entire sentence......All I'm saying is, PCS for American ladies shouldn't be that far from the Russians, and if they were to skate clean, their scores should be much closer, but it hasn't happened because they cannot skate clean when it matters and are receiving significantly less PCS for their performance (e.g. Karen)

 

[Mathman]

... In fact the current JUNIOR champion Alysa Liu is too young for the JGP this coming fall. Her FS: 2a, 3z+3t, 3f+1lo+3s, 3lo, 3z, 3f, 2a+2t

No 3A?

 

[Mrs. P]

Yup. Sure was.

And yes, the US had little chance from the get-go. As I’ve said elsewhere - I haven’t been this disinterested in an Olympics in a LONG time. Heck, I didn’t even stay up to watch the whole thing last night, shut it down after Medvedeva I think. To think 14-15 years ago I was streaming radio Eurosport in the middle of the night for Worlds full of anxiety - hah, the “good old days”...

Anyway, I feel the state of US skating has been beaten to death...clearly this is the new normal, and all US fans that choose to continue following skating should more or less accept that this is and will be the case.

For how long?

I'd admit that I'm pretty disinterested in U.S. ladies myself, but I don't see this current state as a forever-thing.

Things ebb and flow. After all, Russia just got off the podium for the first time in Olympic Ice Dance since its inception while the U.S. went four in a row.

I think what is constantly missing from these conversations is that field is just more deep now.

 

[Miss Ice]

That's why I said "of course, if American ladies were to skate clean." Like can you please read the entire sentence......All I'm saying is, PCS for American ladies shouldn't be that far from the Russians, and if they were to skate clean, their scores should be much closer, but it hasn't happened because they cannot skate clean when it matters and are receiving significantly less PCS for their performance (e.g. Karen)

You have a point. If judging was correct, the U.S. ladies (especially Karen) would be much closer to the top 3. Karen should be 7th here, above Daleman. The quality of her jumps, her spins, her presentation and SS is way better.

No 3A?

Alysa is training, or about to start training, the 3A according to her dad.

 

[yelyoh]

Yup. Sure was.

And yes, the US had little chance from the get-go. As I’ve said elsewhere - I haven’t been this disinterested in an Olympics in a LONG time. Heck, I didn’t even stay up to watch the whole thing last night, shut it down after Medvedeva I think. To think 14-15 years ago I was streaming radio Eurosport in the middle of the night for Worlds full of anxiety - hah, the “good old days”...

Anyway, I feel the state of US skating has been beaten to death...clearly this is the new normal, and all US fans that choose to continue following skating should more or less accept that this is and will be the case.

Well I agree with you on on the former count. The entire Olympics have been a complete bore for me in all disciplines but I am a summer games person anyway. NBC and their coverage did not help much. I'm not sure this is the new normal for the US skaters. However, I'm also not sure I have the patience to wait and see. I will give props to Mirai for upping her game.

 

[andromache]

Well, isn't Christine Brennan just the little ray of sunshine? I suppose if they'd listened to her and sent Ashley Wagner, the result would have been much different? Not.

This is not the time for an article like this. I don't think it will inspire the American ladies in the long program, quite the opposite.

It really isn't fair to only mention the marks of the Russian leaders, who are clearly in a different category than the other competitors. Nagasu is about 6 points behind Sakamoto, who skated a clean program, and 2 points behind Daleman, last year's worlds bronze medalist.

There will be plenty of time after the Olympics to discuss what went wrong. At that point Christine Brennan should look in the mirror and see how much she has contributed to the problems, if indeed they're still perceived as problems.

It is not Christine Brennan's job to support or inspire athletes. It is tell once-every-four-year skating viewers what is going on and explain why no US ladies are in medal contention like in the good ol' days.

Similarly, the struggles of the US ladies have nothing to do with Christine Brennan.

 

[narcissa]

Each of these ladies is just happy to be at the games. None of them expected a medal.