The Future of the Russian Skater

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, it came to an end. At least in my view. All those unique and wonderful Russian skaters which were nurtured under the Soviet system and then those that remained close to the nurturing after the Soviet collapse have pretty much retired from the eligible scene.

While I've read some swan songs about the russian skater, and I believe that golden era is over, I do not see the end of the gold medals. There is plenty of talent in Russia. It is a big and populous country. Some of the Soviet Russian coaches still remain and are first class professionals.

The young Russian skaters face new challenges to basically do it without much government help. I think they can. Do you?

Joe

 

[Ptichka]

Joe, it's not just government help. Much of the Soviet sports system was fueled by skaters from cities other than Moscow and Leningrad. Local rinks would get them up to a certain level, after which they'd go to one of the capital cities for the finishing touches. If Russia is to maintain (or regain) momentum vis-a-vis skating, it needs to invest in local rinks throughout the country. Of course, since many of those rinks have closed a lot of great coaches have left as well, but there is still a good deal of depth. Tarasova, for one thing, really understands this and is talking a lot about this kind of funding; same goes for Rodnina.

 

[Mathman]

I agree with Joe. Figure skating is more popular in Russia than in any other country. I think they will find a way.

Irina Slutskaya has said that what made her strong was all that training on bad ice in cold makeshift rinks, while softie Americans were lazing around in the lap of luxury.

A little bit off topic, but in terms of men's skating, the U.S. once dominated the sport, winning the world championship 12 straight times from 1948 to 1959. What were we doing right back then, and what happened?

MM

 

[SeaniBu]

Irina Slutskaya has said that what made her strong was all that training on bad ice in cold makeshift rinks, while softie Americans were lazing around in the lap of luxury.

Not to mention the Hospitals.

 

[JonnyCoop]

A little bit off topic, but in terms of men's skating, the U.S. once dominated the sport, winning the world championship 12 straight times from 1948 to 1959. What were we doing right back then, and what happened?

MM

Well -- they say, or did at one time, that it takes 12 years to develop a world class skater. (These days, it can take less, this was said mainly back in the compulsory figures days). Bear in mind -- 1948 to 1959 was the aftermath of World War 2. The US did not get their cities bombed in WWII, the Europeans did. Rinks were destroyed, people were starving, etc, etc. Not to diminish any of the accomplishments and abilities of Dick Button, the Jenkins brothers, Ronnie Robertson, etc, but the US skaters had much more of an advantage during that period because the facilities had not been destroyed, and the guys not old enough to be drafted could train during the war; unlike in Europe, where the young guys had nowhere to train and more things to worry about in the course of a day even if they could train. So, short answer -- it had less to do with what WE were doing, and more to do with what Europe was unable to do.

Now, in regards to the subject of this thread -- I think the days of the Russian Powerhouse are gone, but I think they'll always have 1 or 2 top competitiors in all categories. They have way too much of a heritage and tradition not to. (Tho I will allow that Britain used to have a heritage and tradition in ice dancing that rather disappeared, tho the Kerrs may help bring it back.) As Slutskaya said, and I think Moskvina said it, too, and as Mathman also quoted, training in crappy rinks can be a major advantage because if you can skate well in a crappy one, you can skate REALLY well in a good one. I think it's mainly going to depend on the coaches, and the coaches to be; if they can stay in Russia and teach the "old ways" there, they should always have a few talented skaters to show the rest of the world.

 

[anything_for_skating]

Arina Martionva is the next star.
Maybe now they don't have greatest competitive skaters but I believe they will again dominate in figure skating.

 

[antmanb]

Arina Martionva is the next star.
Maybe now they don't have greatest competitive skaters but I believe they will again dominate in figure skating.

I must say i do agree that Martinova looked like a very promising skater at worlds. I decided to look her up and found her ISU biography and was interested to note that her former coach is Slutskaya's coach.

http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00007128.htm

Ant

 

[Ptichka]

I agree with much of what's said on this thread. I just want to re-iterate that the problem is not with the conditions of elite skaters, but with accessibility of the sport to young kids. Russia does not have a large middle class that can afford expensive lessons; a family like Yagudin's or especially Plushenko's simply could not afford such a drain on the budget. And without a large pool of potential skaters, there won't be any stars either.

Just to illustrate how absurd pricing gets in Russia. I have an uncle in Moscow who has done very well for himself. His wife is a biochemist with a PhD, doing rather complicated research. As of a couple of years ago, her salary barely covered their daughter's tennis lessons.

 

[Mathman]

But that could go both ways, yes? A person might be discouraged from studying chemistry, but instead might become a tennis coach and make big bucks.

 

[Ptichka]

MM, yes, engineering and especially science has now become as unpopular in Russia as it is in the US. A real tragedy, IMHO (a far more regrettable one than what's happening with figure skating).

 

[hockeyfan228]

I think Ptichka's point is not that there must be a lot of local rinks that have state-of-the-art facilities, but that there must be local rinks period at which coaches can train kids in the basics and feed them into the big city training centers.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I get the drift of Ptichka's rationale but there are many under priviledge kids in the US that would never be able to afford 1st class trainning. Even, MK's family were middle class to be able to sacrifice.

It's an expensive sport and double dutch rope jumping doesn't cost anything.

Sonia Henie put a lot of dreams in little girls' heads but only the more wealthy could take advantage of that, however, there were some middle class families willing to take a chance. There was no way and still no way for underpriviledge kids .

I think Russia is now at that phase and will produce a few skaters now and then.

Joe

 

[anything_for_skating]

I must say i do agree that Martinova looked like a very promising skater at worlds. I decided to look her up and found her ISU biography and was interested to note that her former coach is Slutskaya's coach.

http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00007128.htm

Ant

Don't tell me you didn't know!

When here was a JGP, she was here with Zanna Gromova, former coach. I could go anywhere, dressing rooms, backstage....
I talked to Arina. She is a great girl. She was a bit dissapointed abut the ranks and I bought her a lovely teddy bear. I was talking with her about the problem being nervous before the competition.... She said she was nervous in the begining, but the more compos you get-that less you are nervous. And I talked to her former coach too. I remember I asked her on the end of banquet "did Russians go to hotel already?"

Anyway, go go Arina!

 

[chuckm]

I'd have to see a lot more of Arina Martynova before I'd get excited about her. She's about the same age as Elene Gedevanishvili, who has had far better international results.

Arina was 12th at Junior Worlds (her countrywoman, Gerboldt, was 10th) because she finished 18th in the FS. She was 19th at Worlds, 21st in the FS, finishing behind Tugba Karademir of Turkey.

Arina's competed at the JGP two seasons in a row, getting a 4th and a 6th both years. I wonder if Russia will send her to the JGP again, or move her up to the GP.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

While this topic is turning into a particular Russian skater who may or may not carry on the gold medal parade, I must say I like Martinova. I did see her skate in Calgary. She is a beginner on the World scene with what I consider a potential force in Ladies figure skating. But with me, as you know, I see that in many skaters. Caroline Zhang, for example. When I see potential in a young skater, I don't care about their nationality, I want to see the necessary progress to becoming a top ten skater. I have to agree with Chuckm, we need to see more, and that goes for all the new and younger skaters.

Big question for Ptichka: Will someone nurture Martinova?

Back to topic: Of all the division to continue the gold standard of Russian skaters, we are considering a Lady. With the exception of Irina, that division has always been the weakest. Where are the boys? Where are the couples?

Joe

 

[anything_for_skating]

Boys: Mishin's young boy
Pairs and dance, not so sure who, but Russian for sure!

 

[soogar]

I guess you don't think Klimkin is going to step up to the plate....

 

[Kasey]

"mishin's boy" is 12 or 13 years old. There are several male skaters right now who look like they could break out into being top ten of the world, if they get more consistant in technique and more controlled in nerves. But that raises the point....is world top ten or top 6 still to be considered a "failure", based on the standard set over the last 8-9 years by Yagudin and Plushenko?

 

[R.D.]

On this topic, you might be interested in this FSU post/thread:

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39235

 

[Jaana]

"mishin's boy" is 12 or 13 years old. There are several male skaters right now who look like they could break out into being top ten of the world, if they get more consistant in technique and more controlled in nerves. But that raises the point....is world top ten or top 6 still to be considered a "failure", based on the standard set over the last 8-9 years by Yagudin and Plushenko?

Let´s not forget the Olympic champions Urmanov and Kulik from the list... In my opinion with four Russian Olympic gold medals and a mass of World medals, Russian skaters that don´t manage to rise on the podium in those competitions, can be seen as failures. The standard those four skaters left, is really high.