The Future of the Russian Skater

[anything_for_skating]

Anything_for_skating,

I like your faith and belief. But in your own example, it took Albena Denkova THIRTEEN years to develop from 26th place to World Champion. How many singles skaters do you think can have that longevity, with the need for jumps and 3-3 combinations? Unless it's a skater who is currently 8 years old or so, and growing up with the CoP system and starting on the 3-3's early, I think it would be really hard for any of the current, or even junior, ladies skaters to last that kind of time at the elite level.

Doesn't matter. Another example: On the qualifications for Olys, Fleur Maxwell finished in front of Gedevanishvili. And on the Europeans, Gedevanishvili finished 5th and Fleur 25th. I like them both, but it's an example how EVERYTHING can change.

If your target was to get my opinion out of my head, you still didn't make it. I still think Russians are the best

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If your target was to get my opinion out of my head, you still didn't make it. I still think Russians are the best

For me, there are 3 kinds of figure skating fans:

1. Fans who love the sport and look for the best in figure skating from everywhere regardless of their nationality.

2. Fans who only consider Russian skaters worthy of winning medals because of their nationality.

3 Fans who are obsessed with one skater and give total praise for that skater, but will give cursory comments about a few others.

Am I correct?

Joe

 

[chuckm]

It's not logical to compare a singles skater (Martinova) to an ice dancer. Even under CoP, it still takes YEARS for ice dancers to climb the ranks until they reach medal position. Belbin/Agosto skated at their first Worlds in 2001, and finished 17th. They were 13th in 2002, the same year they won the World Junior Championship. After the 2002 Olympics, with the retirement of many teams, they were 7th in 2003, and did not make the podium for the first time until 2005.

Who knows how Arina Martinova will progress over the years. She could be another Viktoria Volchkova: 10th in '99 (at 16), 7th in '00, 6th in '01, 9th in the 2002 Olympics, 7th at '02 Worlds, 5th in '03, then 15th in '04. Vika is now 23, recovering from multiple surgeries.

But then, Vika actually did much better than Arina in her first senior Worlds, at the same age, and had won bronze at JW in both '98 (at 15) and '99. Arina was 12 at JW this year.

So far, Russia has had just two real Ladies stars, Butyrskaya and Slutskaya. Sokolova has occasionally had a great season, but she has never been as consistent as the other two. Russia does not have the reputation in Ladies skating that it has had in Pairs and Ice Dance, and even in those disciplines, the future is murky.

In Men, the consistent stars of the past decade have been Yagudin and Plushenko. Kulik and Urmanov won the OGM but were not consistent performers otherwise. Plushenko is the last of the Russian stars for the forseeable future. Klimkin, Griazev, Uspenski, Voronov and Shubin are all inconsistent, much more so than Kulik and Urmanov.

 

[anything_for_skating]

For me, there are 3 kinds of figure skating fans:

1. Fans who love the sport and look for the best in figure skating from everywhere regardless of their nationality.

2. Fans who only consider Russian skaters worthy of winning medals because of their nationality.

3 Fans who are obsessed with one skater and give total praise for that skater, but will give cursory comments about a few others.

Am I correct?

Joe

So?

You wanna say this is all because of I am half-Russian? Nope, it's because I know how they do it in Russia. If I have to say what kind of fan am I, I would say that I...I don't know how to say...I just see passion in Russian skaters...and I didn't see it in Mao...Kimmie inspired me with a powerful progam and strong combos, but she doesn't have that spirit. I know, she's young...
Sasha- she is not REAL. Her smile is not real.
Asada- I have seen her 2 times and I don't even remember her! She even competed on the same competition as I did. All I remember are mothers and coaches saying that Japanesse skaters are doing crazy jumps. Arina, for example, took my eye. And Asada...I don't even remember her skating. And I don't like her sister's skating...

 

[chuckm]

Passion? Please. I have seen little passion in Sokolova, although I like her personality. Obertas / Slavnov struggle just to complete all their tricks, and passion takes a back seat. Totmianina/Marinin skated with great skill and precision, but as competitors they are like store dummies emotionally. At Torino, Irina was devoid of her usual zest. Petrova/Tikhonov huff and puff their way through their routines. Only Plushenko and Navka/Kostomarov skated with passion.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

So? You wanna say this is all because of I am half-Russian? ...

I never said that. Those are your words. Martinova as well as Caroline Zhang, as well as Christopher Mabee as well as Ya nu all have potential. What is so terrible about opening up your eyes to skaters and mention some that are not Russian?

 

[Kasey]

If your target was to get my opinion out of my head, you still didn't make it. I still think Russians are the best

My "target" was not to get your opinion out of your head. You've proven yourself quite opinionated, and it's not my desire to change anyone else's mind, because even if it was, *I* can't do it. My point was, to compare the learning curve process, the time spent in sport to grow to the utmost success, and the potential injuries, it is pointless to compare ice dance to the other three disciplines because it doesn't have jumps, and the older (more experienced) skaters have the advantages usually, which is not the norm in the other three disciplines. But, whatever.

 

[anything_for_skating]

Passion? Please. I have seen little passion in Sokolova, although I like her personality. Obertas / Slavnov struggle just to complete all their tricks, and passion takes a back seat. Totmianina/Marinin skated with great skill and precision, but as competitors they are like store dummies emotionally. At Torino, Irina was devoid of her usual zest. Petrova/Tikhonov huff and puff their way through their routines. Only Plushenko and Navka/Kostomarov skated with passion.

You don't see passion in Sokolova?
You must be crazy

 

[anything_for_skating]

I never said that. Those are your words. Martinova as well as Caroline Zhang, as well as Christopher Mabee as well as Ya nu all have potential. What is so terrible about opening up your eyes to skaters and mention some that are not Russian?

Nothing. I am just saying my opinion, and no way I'm gonna stay out of it. They do have potential, so I'm saying you can't judge by JGPs

 

[Kasey]

You don't see passion in Sokolova?
You must be crazy

You are quite agressive with your opinions....but you are incapable of accepting the input of another poster without insulting them? I think Sokolova shows more of her energy and character in her exhibition skating, rather than her competitive programs, with occasional exceptions. That is MY opinion, something that you so fiercely protect of your own. It would be nice of you to respect that not all people will think as you do. Somehow, I don't expect you to understand this post at all, however. Whatever.

 

[anything_for_skating]

You are quite agressive with your opinions....but you are incapable of accepting the input of another poster without insulting them? I think Sokolova shows more of her energy and character in her exhibition skating, rather than her competitive programs, with occasional exceptions. That is MY opinion, something that you so fiercely protect of your own. It would be nice of you to respect that not all people will think as you do. Somehow, I don't expect you to understand this post at all, however. Whatever.

I do understand your post...

I respect people's opinion. I really do. Maybe it sounds so when I write, after all my English is not perfect. I am just saying reasons why my opinion is exactly like it is. And also posting my comments on your thaughts...I just can't believe how anyone can say Sokolova doesn't have the spirit...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

A-4-A -- I hope you get to Russian Nats where you could get the biggest pleasures in your life along with the high of passion which no one else in the world has.

Joe

 

[chuckm]

I am not crazy. I do like Elena Sokolova, and she has occasionally skated a bang-up performance, but it is a mistake to interpret energy and pleasing personality as passion. She consistently gets lower PCS scores than other skaters partly because she doesn't give that extra edge of passion that we see from Irina Slutskaya and Michelle Kwan.

I think Elena's biggest problem is that she doesn't quite trust herself technically, and that makes her skating a lot "smaller" emotionally than it could be.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I am not crazy. I do like Elena Sokolova, and she has occasionally skated a bang-up performance, but it is a mistake to interpret energy and pleasing personality as passion. She consistently gets lower PCS scores than other skaters partly because she doesn't give that extra edge of passion that we see from Irina Slutskaya and Michelle Kwan.

I think Elena's biggest problem is that she doesn't quite trust herself technically, and that makes her skating a lot "smaller" emotionally than it could be.

ITA. Her mind seems to me to be totally on the Technical and not on the performance. Even in Skate America, which she won, there was nothing special about the performance, but the jumps were excellent.

Joe

 

[Spun Silver]

So?

You wanna say this is all because of I am half-Russian? Nope, it's because I know how they do it in Russia. If I have to say what kind of fan am I, I would say that I...I don't know how to say...I just see passion in Russian skaters...and I didn't see it in Mao...Kimmie inspired me with a powerful progam and strong combos, but she doesn't have that spirit. I know, she's young...
Sasha- she is not REAL. Her smile is not real.
Asada- I have seen her 2 times and I don't even remember her! She even competed on the same competition as I did. All I remember are mothers and coaches saying that Japanesse skaters are doing crazy jumps. Arina, for example, took my eye. And Asada...I don't even remember her skating. And I don't like her sister's skating...

AFS - I'm another one who thinks your posts really do insult other skaters. You issue judgments, sometimes in capital letters (the internet equivalent of shouting in any language), that offer little except meanness, vague value-words, nationalism, and emotion. Are you even interested in having a discussion about skaters? After all, that is the point of the boards. It almost seems as though all you want is to broadcast your views and then watch everyone agree with you. I'm afraid it doesn't work like that!

Since you are a skater, why not back up your opinions with detail? To call Sasha "not REAL" is nothing but an insult without any explanation but I think your hatred of Sasha is well established so I won't go there. To call Mao unmemorable... well, why? I remember her! She has a remarkable combo of fragile appearance and great strength; she is tiny, but has very long arms and legs that give her lovely line; she is currently the best jumper on the scene and also has a lovely Bielmann (I know some will disagree); she has a charmingly gracious but juniorish style that will be interesting to see as it develops; etc., etc.

Anyway, the whole skating world remembers Mao so if you don't maybe that is a statement about you, not her! And what does her sister have to do with her, as a skater? They are two different people. You criticize Mai as if that will support your criticism of Mao.

I really don't intend to be harsh, but your posts are simply rude. And this "only the Russians" nationalism would be offensive if it weren't ridiculous.

 

[anything_for_skating]

AFS - I'm another one who thinks your posts really do insult other skaters. You issue judgments, sometimes in capital letters (the internet equivalent of shouting in any language), that offer little except meanness, vague value-words, nationalism, and emotion. Are you even interested in having a discussion about skaters? After all, that is the point of the boards. It almost seems as though all you want is to broadcast your views and then watch everyone agree with you. I'm afraid it doesn't work like that!

Since you are a skater, why not back up your opinions with detail? To call Sasha "not REAL" is nothing but an insult without any explanation but I think your hatred of Sasha is well established so I won't go there. To call Mao unmemorable... well, why? I remember her! She has a remarkable combo of fragile appearance and great strength; she is tiny, but has very long arms and legs that give her lovely line; she is currently the best jumper on the scene and also has a lovely Bielmann (I know some will disagree); she has a charmingly gracious but juniorish style that will be interesting to see as it develops; etc., etc.

Anyway, the whole skating world remembers Mao so if you don't maybe that is a statement about you, not her! And what does her sister have to do with her, as a skater? They are two different people. You criticize Mai as if that will support your criticism of Mao.

I really don't intend to be harsh, but your posts are simply rude. And this "only the Russians" nationalism would be offensive if it weren't ridiculous.

Look, I apologize if I disturb other people on the board. I am really sorry guys. It's not what I want to do, maybe you take it wrong, maybe I am choosing wrong words...I promise I'll try to express my taughts on the other way in the future

 

[slutskayafan21]

ITA. Her mind seems to me to be totally on the Technical and not on the performance. Even in Skate America, which she won, there was nothing special about the performance, but the jumps were excellent.

Joe

Her skating is all about jumps I find. Her spins and footwork were actually better back in 98 when she was an up and comer then they are now.

 

[Spun Silver]

Look, I apologize if I disturb other people on the board. I am really sorry guys. It's not what I want to do, maybe you take it wrong, maybe I am choosing wrong words...I promise I'll try to express my taughts on the other way in the future

Well, that's very sweet of you. I'll look forward to seeing what you think.

 

[anything_for_skating]

Her skating is all about jumps I find. Her spins and footwork were actually better back in 98 when she was an up and comer then they are now.

hmm...maybe...I am not sure...have to check 98s first

But, she doesn't have the greatest technic, so WELL DONE to her doing that jumps...

 

[anything_for_skating]

Well, that's very sweet of you. I'll look forward to seeing what you think.

...
Again, sorry all of you, I didn't mean to make anyone feel bad, just want to say what I think...As English isn't my first language next time I'll pick better words.