- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
Yes, please. So far I'm definitely liking you as the sole judge!
Here are some numbers. I haven't added them up to see what result they would produce.
When I watched the men's long programs from the GPF live on TV, I tried scoring along for fun. So these are my numbers based on what I saw on TV, my understanding of the rules, my perception of the quality. Your mileage, or that of the official judges, may vary.
At the end of the event I expected Takahashi to win the freeskate but not by enough to make up for his short program deficit. I was surprised Chan took the freeskate. Adding up the PCS, I see I gave them different scores for each individual component but the same overall total, so the TES would make the difference. I haven't done the math yet to figure out how the results would have come out with these tech panel calls if I were the only judge. Should I?
Takahashi
4T -2
3A +2
3S +2
CCSp2 +1
CiSt4 +2
FCCoSp4 0
3A+3T 0
3F+2T +1
3Lo 0
3Lz+2T +1
3F +1
ChSt1 +2
CCoSP4 +1
8.5 8.0 8.75 9.0 9.25
Chan
4T -2
4T+2T -2
3A +2
CiSt4 +2
FCCoSp +1
3LZ+1Lo+3S 0
3Lo +1
3F+3T +1
FCSSp4 +1
3Lz -3
2A +1
ChSt1 +1
CCoSp4 0
9.0 8.75 8.25 9.0 8.5
(1.00 fall deduction)
That's my opinion. I care far less for what you tried, in comparision to what you actually did. And if you think its about hating on Patrick, I had no problem with Patrick beating Daisuke at Skate Canada earlier this year. Chan's a fabulous skater when he skates well this wasn't his bets performance technically or performance wise.
You know what i find is ridiculous. When skaters ubers are so caught up in their skater, that they think their skaters deserve ridiculously high scores no matter how their skater actually skated. That they can't sit there and say you know what maybe the other skater out skated my skater this time.
I adored Yu-na Kim back in the day, but I was also able to appreciate Asada. And while I was rooting for Kim to win, I certainly wasn't rooting for Kim to win regardless of how she or Asada skated. I felt that Kim winning 2010 worlds long program showcased all the problems with this sport.
At the end of the day I'm a fan of this sport, far more than I'm a fan of a particular skater. And I don't know how this sport can survive if people want to argue that how the skater skates, that night just doesn't matter.
This is quite interesting. You guys have quite a few variations on GOES. I would love to hear you discuss them, like why gk gives Dai a 0 on the 3A-3T while wl gives him a 1, why you guys reverse the GOE for the final combo spins, etc.
Gkelly, is wallylutz correct that for you Dai wins the whole thing?
This is quite interesting. You guys have quite a few variations on GOES. I would love to hear you discuss them, like why gk gives Dai a 0 on the 3A-3T while wl gives him a 1
(In the past) scores rarely branched much out of the zero zone to a minus or plus 3 for Grades of Execution [GOEs] unless for clearly failed elements deserving a -3. In recent times, the ISU Technical Committee urged judges to explore the range of -3 to +3, especially higher values for exceptional elements deserving of such credit.
This season we are seeing a huge range of minus and pluses on a given element that are not following the intended purpose of the range and are questionably defying the definitions as written.
I assume quite a few judges are under severe scrutiny so far this season.
However, in Paris (Patrick Chan's) program was marred by some technical element errors and other unfortunate, unusual mistakes that clearly lead me to question the PC values given to Chan. Such scores are not consistent with the intent of the written definitions for PC scoring.
That's my opinion. I care far less for what you tried, in comparision to what you actually did. And if you think its about hating on Patrick, I had no problem with Patrick beating Daisuke at Skate Canada earlier this year. Chan's a fabulous skater when he skates well this wasn't his bets performance technically or performance wise.
You know what i find is ridiculous. When skaters ubers are so caught up in their skater, that they think their skaters deserve ridiculously high scores no matter how their skater actually skated. That they can't sit there and say you know what maybe the other skater out skated my skater this time.
I adored Yu-na Kim back in the day, but I was also able to appreciate Asada. And while I was rooting for Kim to win, I certainly wasn't rooting for Kim to win regardless of how she or Asada skated. I felt that Kim winning 2010 worlds long program showcased all the problems with this sport.
At the end of the day I'm a fan of this sport, far more than I'm a fan of a particular skater. And I don't know how this sport can survive if people want to argue that how the skater skates, that night just doesn't matter.
Exactly my thought. I guess some ubers get so ridiculous to defend horrible judging. I do not get it. Even 5years old know that you are not going to win when you have so many mistakes. You do not need a number, you just need your normal eye sight.
Wallylutz, it's very polite of you to ask what my take is since I'm not a skater and miss most of the details. But in reply, the jump looks so solid, tightly rotated, and strong to me, with the complex entry you mention, that I can't see giving it 0 GOE. I do see the skate completing the rotation on the ice on the 3T and the jump having less flowout than it ideally would, so I wouldn't expect a +3. I don't see the setup being notably long.
Another question about it: does the difficulty of the combination enter into the GOE (in theory or in practice)?
Aside from poor use of statistics, the first thing that caught my eye was the name of the author. Rick O'Neill was the head coach at a number of Greater Toronto area clubs in the late 1990's and early 2000's. When I went to the 2005 GPF, he was there with the Mexican Team. Now he's involved with the Puerto Rican Federation. It would take someone with a lot more power and influence in the ISU to effectively raise this issue for it to have an impact within the ISU.
Mr. O'Neill's other point, that judges are misusing their discretion in awarding GOEs, personally I don't think is a problem.