The Judging Controversy Thread

[usethis2]

It was after the SP. I watched twice and there is no way Yuna's score is the same with Adelina. She should have gotten at least 4~5 point more than Adelina. Those who try to justify Adelina's FS score with TES should rewatch the SP. Then we can talk.

Judging needs to be discussed so that we can reduce victims in the future. If you accept whatever happens as "it is what it is," then it will be bound to happen again. Otherwise, when the time comes and it's your turn to play victim, you will be sorry.

 

[mateusp1]

For, If a petition is going to be signed, it has to include ALL SKATERS. Why?

Because Yuna was not the only girl robbed. Yes, she was robbed. But other girls also were.

What can we say about Ashley, Mao and Carolina? Not to mention Marchei, Akiko, Meite, and the list goes on.

The only girls that were gifted: Julia and Adelina. A flawed Julia got higher PC's than a clean and perfect Mao. What can we say about expressive, intense and beautiful Marchei and Ashley that got 60 and 66 of PC's, against an uninspired and immature Julia that got 70?

The main thing for me is:

It was not only about Yuna. It was about all girls, who worked really hard to deliver that performance and were low balled and robbed, in order to allow better placement for the local skaters.

Another thing that I would like to point:

-From now on, I see tons of people hating and bashing Adelina and Julia. Guys, their scores were not their fault. The 2 girls did not pay to the judges to get the scores they got. Do not blame the girls.

 

[Zamboni]

She probably deserved to win the free skate, but was scored too high in the short program. I'm going to wait a week and look at it again.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

This is pretty much what I'm talking about. Figure skating is a subjectively scored sports versus lets say a 100m dash. Unfortunately, this subjectivity was abused today. You are one of the few minority who seem to disagree with this today.

My point was that there was biased judging tonight in favor of Adelina. Enough so that if affected the outcome of the standings.

It was unprecedented bump in PCS over such a short time. If we polled current and past Olympic skaters where Adelina should be scored relative to Costner/Kim in terms of PCS, she should be at least 5 points lower right now. YuNa beat Adelina in PCS: by 0.09 points tonight...hmm. Adelina actually beat Costner!!!

Right, subjectivity. It seems like the judges were just like you, the very small minority.

I honestly don't have a very strong opinion either way. I just think from my subjective view that all three girls skated well enough to win the medal. To me it was a tie between Adelina and Kostner and judges gave it to Adelina. I'd have Yuna 3rd. She was good but the least impressive of the three tonight. I respect your views, I really do. I'm just not into being a second hand judge. Just not cynical enough so I will just to another thread.

 

[usethis2]

She probably deserved to win the free skate, but was scored too high in the short program. I'm going to wait a week and look at it again.

When you rewatch, check Adelina's spins and step sequence in SP.

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

She probably deserved to win the free skate, but was scored too high in the short program. I'm going to wait a week and look at it again.

I think this sounds like a good idea that I'm going to try too! It's so hard to judge things in the fresh heat of the moment objectively.

 

[usethis2]

I honestly don't have a very strong opinion either way. I just think from my subjective view that all three girls skated well enough to win the medal. To me it was a tie between Adelina and Kostner and judges gave it to Adelina. I'd have Yuna 3rd. She was good but the least impressive of the three tonight. I respect your views, I really do. I'm just not into being a second hand judge. Just not cynical enough so I will just to another thread.

Good bye. :yes:

 

[NineTails]

Yuna:
TEB 2009: 66.40
Skate America: 61.52
GPF: 61.70
Olympics: 71.76

10 points from her worst to her Olympic performance, 5 points from her best performance.

Sotnikova:
Cup of China: 60.31
TEB: 64.65
Euros: 69.60
Olympics: 74.41
14 points difference from her worst to her Olympic performance, that's more than Yuna, yes, but unlike Yuna she really struggled in the beginning of the season. And about 5 points from her best performance before the Olympics.
Also before Vancouver, Yuna was never close to 150 before either.

So you think her PCS is better than Costner tonight? She made that big of a leap where now she's in par with Yuna also. If we asked what other skaters the same question, I wonder what they would say. She was clearly got the biggest bump out of anyone tonight. An unfair bump that is really unfair to the other skaters.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

:

Good bye. :yes:

 

[millie]

Oh just shut the hell up sky fly no one one this board likes you so just get lost. Signed and shared on my facebook

You are calling out sky fly for what he is saying on this board
....are you not doing the same thing....I am not agreeing with what sky fly is saying about skaters and his opinion
But you are bullying him or her personally. Why are people taking this personally?

 

[usethis2]

For, If a petition is going to be signed, it has to include ALL SKATERS. Why?

Because Yuna was not the only girl robbed. Yes, she was robbed. But other girls also were.

What can we say about Ashley, Mao and Carolina? Not to mention Marchei, Akiko, Meite, and the list goes on.

The only girls that were gifted: Julia and Adelina. A flawed Julia got higher PC's than a clean and perfect Mao. What can we say about expressive, intense and beautiful Marchei and Ashley that got 60 and 66 of PC's, against an uninspired and immature Julia that got 70?

The main thing for me is:

It was not only about Yuna. It was about all girls, who worked really hard to deliver that performance and were low balled and robbed, in order to allow better placement for the local skaters.

Another thing that I would like to point:

-From now on, I see tons of people hating and bashing Adelina and Julia. Guys, their scores were not their fault. The 2 girls did not pay to the judges to get the scores they got. Do not blame the girls.

I agree and you know what? I have no doubt in my mind that these girls are just as disposable to the Russian Federation and to the media. Just look at how quickly their focus changes around on a daily basis. I like Adelina very much and once she gains some more stamina and refines her skills she can be a great in FS history - IMO of course. I have said this way before the Yulia fad caught on but of course everybody was onto Yulia and her "Red Girl" routine.

I won't bash Adelina although I will have to watch Yulia growing up. IMO Yulia currently skates in a borrowed time - unless she fixes her techniques she will have a hard time in the future.

Said that, Adelina's scores are incomprehensible. There is no doubt in my mind she would never have gotten those scores outside Russia.

 

[noskates]

Maybe because the intent is personal? There ARE a few posters on this board that pee in everybody's Wheaties just for the fun of it.

 

[usethis2]

Thing is, the way some federations wield powers in judging, no girls are safe. INCLUDING RUSSIAN GIRLS. They would have pitched up a different girl just as easily if they could have and if necessary. This is the state of FS judging.

 

[Rachmaninoff]

He did think so in SP, that judges were "very generous" with Adelina's score the moment it came up. He backtracked that pretty quickly later on. That was also fishy.

I've wondered if commentators were told not to say anything about the judging. As I mentioned in the LP thread, Kurt said nothing about the sudden rise in Russian skaters' scores until today, and has been quite complimentary of Lipnitskaya in particular.

Robin Cousins, Kurt Browning, Katarina Witt and even Dick button thinks YuNa sould win the OGM.

Robin, Kurt, Katarina and Dick are obviously all SOUR LOOSERS AND ARE JELOUS!!!

I'm just saying if you can't make a valid case for all three to win then your not viewing this sport with an open mind. Pcs Schmee-See-Ess. Adelina is your gold medalist this year. You're going to drive yourself nuts if you try to figure out subjective judging not unlike a husband trying to figure out his wife. He may think he has but he NEVER will. Ever read all the loopholes in ISU guidelines for applying GOE? It's subjective to the core. .

To the bolded...why?

Having an open mind doesn't mean accepting any result as reasonable. Yeah, there's some subjectivity to it, especially with things like musical interpretation, and there will always be disagreements and different perceptions. There will sometimes be cases that could "go either way." But that doesn't mean any performance could arguably be ranked above any other performance. If that were the case, how does it make sense to use PCS as part of ranking skaters at all?

There are times when I've said, "Eh, that's not how I would have ranked them, but I can imagine where they're coming from, I guess." This was not one of those times. When a very large portion of former skaters/coaches/insiders/knowledgeable fans are stunned at a result and feel it's clearly wrong, then I think something's wrong.

 

[jehan215]

I was absolutely disgusted last night. Yes, Sotnikova's skate was great - but was it better than Yuna's 2013 Worlds LP (Les Miserables)? Until this event, her total scores were only in the 170s which makes me wonder how this 50pt increase could be possible and whether the judges were consistent in their scoring process.

I checked the protocols - Yuna hardly got any GOEs while the judges were giving truckloads to the Russian skaters (even Yulia with that fall). And then I checked the list of judges. To my surprise, there was an Ukrainian judge who was suspended for fixing scores. Then to top that off, the wife of the head of the Russian Skating Federation was included in that list. It seems to me that ISU is in self-destruction mode - losing integrity, objectivity, and fairness.

Although I admit that Sotnikova's program may have been technically more difficult, I don't think I'm the only one in saying that Yuna was robbed of her OGM. Figure skating legends including Katarina Witt, Michelle Kwan, Dick Button - just to name a few - have all expressed their sympathy for Yuna and disgrace/shame for the sport. Not to mention all the other figure skating experts around the world. Russia may have gotten their gold - but we all know who the true champion and Queen is.

 

[pangtongfan]

The moment I saw the panel and the judges I rushed to bet my 2000 Canadian before the event even began. I was thinking of it strongly after the womens short when I couldnt believe they had Sotnikova as high at 4-1 in some sites when it was obvious to anyone with a brain the fix was in her for to win, but after seeing the judging panel for the womens long I was totally convinced. Even if she had 3 falls she still would have won with even more elevated PCS and GOE, and dropped scores for the others. The Russians payed too much money for anything else to happen.

 

[usethis2]

The moment I saw the panel and the judges I rushed to bet my 2000 Canadian before the event even began. I was thinking of it strongly after the womens short when I couldnt believe they had Sotnikova as high at 4-1 in some sites when it was obvious to anyone with a brain the fix was in her for to win, but after seeing the judging panel for the womens long I was totally convinced. Even if she had 3 falls she still would have won with even more elevated PCS and GOE, and dropped scores for the others. The Russians payed too much money for anything else to happen.

At least someone was smart enough to make the best out of this travesty! :thumbsup:

 

[Panini]

The moment I saw the panel and the judges I rushed to bet my 2000 Canadian before the event even began. I was thinking of it strongly after the womens short when I couldnt believe they had Sotnikova as high at 4-1 in some sites when it was obvious to anyone with a brain the fix was in her for to win, but after seeing the judging panel for the womens long I was totally convinced. Even if she had 3 falls she still would have won with even more elevated PCS and GOE, and dropped scores for the others. The Russians payed too much money for anything else to happen.

You don't know what would've happened if Adelina had fallen. She had to deliver for the ~nefarious~ plan to work and she did. Gotta give her props for that.

 

[pangtongfan]

You don't know what would've happened if Adelina had fallen. She had to deliver for the ~nefarious~ plan to work and she did. Gotta give her props for that.

Had Adelina fallen, or fallen more than once, they would have simply given Kostner and Kim all 0s in GOE and even lower PCS. Too much money went into result for it not to happen.

 

[Panini]

I was absolutely disgusted last night. Yes, Sotnikova's skate was great - but was it better than Yuna's 2013 Worlds LP (Les Miserables)? Until this event, her total scores were only in the 170s which makes me wonder how this 50pt increase could be possible and whether the judges were consistent in their scoring process.

I checked the protocols - Yuna hardly got any GOEs while the judges were giving truckloads to the Russian skaters (even Yulia with that fall). And then I checked the list of judges. To my surprise, there was an Ukrainian judge who was suspended for fixing scores. Then to top that off, the wife of the head of the Russian Skating Federation was included in that list. It seems to me that ISU is in self-destruction mode - losing integrity, objectivity, and fairness.

Although I admit that Sotnikova's program may have been technically more difficult, I don't think I'm the only one in saying that Yuna was robbed of her OGM. Figure skating legends including Katarina Witt, Michelle Kwan, Dick Button - just to name a few - have all expressed their sympathy for Yuna and disgrace/shame for the sport. Not to mention all the other figure skating experts around the world. Russia may have gotten their gold - but we all know who the true champion and Queen is.

She got 202.36 at Euros this year.