Excellent wording! I wanted to ask this myself, but I couldn't formalize it so elegantly and clearly.
The race for the Ladies JGPF
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I'm sorry, but I addressed this in my earlier posts: I most certainly have not.
To me, that makes me the perfect poster for commenting on the process for selecting JGPF particpants, at least for the women. I could not pick any of them out of a line-up, and that includes Isabeau and Lindsay.
(To be honest, I have seen Isabeau's skate, I think it was her free skate? She had a white costume, was that the FP? I was impressed, a mini Sasha Cohen. If she lasts into seniors, maybe I'll watch more. Maybe not.
Is there anyone else who holds positions like her, holds spirals and Ina Bauers and spread eagles? I don't want to go off topic, posters can DM me if there are.)If the thread were, who do you most want to see in the JGPF women, or who is your favorite junior woman, I have no opinion. But it's not who I want, but what process I think is fair.
A-HA! You are SCHEMING to get Isabeau into the JGPF!!!!!!!!To me, that makes me the perfect poster for commenting on the process for selecting JGPF particpants, at least for the women. I could not pick any of them out of a line-up, and that includes Isabeau and Lindsay.
(To be honest, I have seen Isabeau's skate, I think it was her free skate? She had a white costume, was that the FP? I was impressed, a mini Sasha Cohen. If she lasts into seniors, maybe I'll watch more. Maybe not.
/jk
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In this case, the only way Levito doesn't make the JPF is if she unexpectedly fails in Linz (something nobody here wants), because, again, no matter what criteria you pick, the result aligns for her before Linz—as it should, because high scores=medals=selections. It had always been the best to score so high that the athlete gets two gold medals as Akateva demonstrates in the junior women—there is zero chance she is out. In a normal year theoretically, not all gold medalists could make it in, because there are 6 spots and 7 stages. It's still paramount to score high and win this year. For example, the Canadian KR has the same medals as Russian SS, but as this is a tie, SS comes ahead with a higher score in the regular case. Same this year.To be honest, I have seen Isabeau's skate, I think it was her free skate? She had a white costume, was that the FP? I was impressed, a mini Sasha Cohen. If she lasts into seniors, maybe I'll watch more. Maybe not.
If you had seen Levito's free skate (she has a white dress in both) tbh I am surprised you specifically had been that impressed because her free is where her skating and performance skill needs a bit of development, as it is clear she lacks speed and energy to perform to music, with music and mood leaving her far behind, making me feel like, 'faster, faster, faster would be better'. She still is dancing to the Swan (her amazing short) while the music had switched to a folksy rambunctious tune; she is neither in her free. On the other hand, Murav'yeva who also doesn’t have the ultra-c (your fav kind of skater) is better at reflecting the music, though she doesn't have the arms. If you put your heart toward watching the skating in Linz, you might actually enjoy it... maybe?
The junior women are actually skating beautifully this season and the competition between them is exciting. Also, even if Thoringren is not going to make the JPF, she is pretty much a shoe-in for JWC with Levito, so in terms of watching their skating, if you follow the competitions, you will see both competing internationally. But you kinda need to watch the junior women for that, otherwise all the criteria in the world, fair or otherwise, are a moot point. Like, watch? Care about the skating first and foremost. Because without caring about the skating, nothing else in skating season matters.
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ISU Decision
Single Men and Women
i) The 7 winners of each individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Event will qualify for the Final.
ii) Should there only be 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because a Skater has won 2 ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events, the 6 different individual winners will qualify for the Final.
iii) Should there be fewer than 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because more Skaters have won 2 JGP Events, all the different individual winners will qualify for the Final. In addition, the best 2nd placed Skater(s), 3rd placed Skater(s) and so forth by total score, who are not yet qualified as a winner, would be invited to the Final to reach the number of 6 entries.
iv) Japan as the host Member will be granted 1 Wild Card Entry for Men and for Women.
Pair
i) The 4 winners of each individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Event will qualify for the Final.
ii) Should there be fewer than 4 different individual winners out of the 4 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because a Pair has won 2 JGP Events, all the different individual winners will qualify for the Final. In addition, the best 2nd placed Pairs(s), 3rd placed Pairs(s) and so forth by total score, who are not yet qualified as a winner, would be invited to the Final to reach the number of 4 entries.
Ice Dance
i) The 7 winners of each individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating event will qualify for the Final.
ii) Should there only be 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because a Couple has won 2 JGP Events, the 6 different individual winners will qualify for the Final.
iii) Should there be fewer than 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because more Couples have won 2 JGP Events, all the different individual winners will qualify for the Final. In addition, the best 2nd placed Couple(s), 3rd placed Couples(s) and so forth by total score, who are not yet qualified as a winner, would be invited to the Final to reach the number of 6 entries.
Single Men and Women
i) The 7 winners of each individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Event will qualify for the Final.
ii) Should there only be 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because a Skater has won 2 ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events, the 6 different individual winners will qualify for the Final.
iii) Should there be fewer than 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because more Skaters have won 2 JGP Events, all the different individual winners will qualify for the Final. In addition, the best 2nd placed Skater(s), 3rd placed Skater(s) and so forth by total score, who are not yet qualified as a winner, would be invited to the Final to reach the number of 6 entries.
iv) Japan as the host Member will be granted 1 Wild Card Entry for Men and for Women.
Pair
i) The 4 winners of each individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Event will qualify for the Final.
ii) Should there be fewer than 4 different individual winners out of the 4 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because a Pair has won 2 JGP Events, all the different individual winners will qualify for the Final. In addition, the best 2nd placed Pairs(s), 3rd placed Pairs(s) and so forth by total score, who are not yet qualified as a winner, would be invited to the Final to reach the number of 4 entries.
Ice Dance
i) The 7 winners of each individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating event will qualify for the Final.
ii) Should there only be 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because a Couple has won 2 JGP Events, the 6 different individual winners will qualify for the Final.
iii) Should there be fewer than 6 different individual winners out of the 7 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because more Couples have won 2 JGP Events, all the different individual winners will qualify for the Final. In addition, the best 2nd placed Couple(s), 3rd placed Couples(s) and so forth by total score, who are not yet qualified as a winner, would be invited to the Final to reach the number of 6 entries.
If I'm not missing somethig this means Zhilina would qualify for the JGPF with one entry/victory, in case she would be healthy, right?
So, the ladies entries would be:
Thorngren
Levito
Zhilina?/best scoring second place skater in case Zhilina is not OK (so far Muravieva if she won't score significantly less, in case she wins Austria then Zinina).
Akatieva
Petrosian
Whoever wins Austria
+1 home skater
And possibly no Samodelkina (her chance is only if Zhilina is not healthy and Zinina/Muravieva will score siginicantly lower than previously and won't win in Austria).
So I hope I got it as it is meant to be.
So, the ladies entries would be:
Thorngren
Levito
Zhilina?/best scoring second place skater in case Zhilina is not OK (so far Muravieva if she won't score significantly less, in case she wins Austria then Zinina).
Akatieva
Petrosian
Whoever wins Austria
+1 home skater
And possibly no Samodelkina (her chance is only if Zhilina is not healthy and Zinina/Muravieva will score siginicantly lower than previously and won't win in Austria).
So I hope I got it as it is meant to be.
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It's a bit weird that they bothered to include the "if there are 7 different winners" criterion since they waited so long to announce it that that's already outmoded, as each of the seven-event disciplines already has at least one two-time winner.
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Oh dear, trust the ISU to find the worst possible solution. The regular points system for placements would have been fairer than this, imo....
So if i understand correctly, each winner is guaranteed a spot then those who didn't win but have the highest scores are also qualified?
Well, thanks ISU for reading the thread. Someone here definitely suggested that.
Japanese fed is saved despite sending no one. I guess this was a condition to still hold the jgpf....
Now that Kao Miura got NHK i wonder who they will send in men (he can't compete in jgpf since he would have already competed in a senior GP).
I hope Hana Yoshida will get the spot in ladies.
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As I understood it, highest score only comes into play as a secondary assessment, if the individual gold medallists cannot fill up 6 spots (which is not the case in ladies except if Zhilina has to withdraw).
I tried to stay out of this debate before, since I didn't believe all the conspiracy theories, but it is really odd how the ISU managed to come up with a system that allowed two US ladies to take part in the final.
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Fully agreed. This helped those who could attend Courchevel even more.
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A-HA! You are SCHEMING to get Isabeau into the JGPF!!!!!!!!
You got me!
I love Isabeau more than Jason Brown, Andrew Torgashev, and Donovan Carrillo combined. She is my lodestar. And only and solely because she is American, because I all I want to do is beat all other countries because winning a women's skating competition will demonstrate just how wonderful I am and my country is.
(Complete and total sarcasm, in case that is missed
)@lariko thank you for your explanation about Isabeau ETA: and comments about other skaters. I wasn't trying to say I wanted her in the GPF, though, but only being honest that I had actually seen her skate, which is unusual for me. Maybe it was the short, I don't know.
And now we have an actual decision to discuss, so much the better
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Wow. I didn‘t participate in the discussion before because I was waiting for the ISU‘s final decision but this seems like the worst possible one they could have made?
As has been said by many in this thread, the first two stages were factually easier to win because there was less competition. I mean, that’s pretty obvious no matter how you look at it. And I‘m sorry to single out Thorngren here, but her winning score was 181 points. As a comparison, Zakharova, who was FOURTH in Kosice, got roughly 190. Sure, scores aren‘t always comparable between events but this is a pretty obvious indication of how unfair this qualification process the ISU‘s chosen is. It’s not even like usual years, where you sometimes end up with a bad draw but the Russian skaters (and the Korean, in some cases) literally weren‘t allowed to attend the first two events and had to be relocated.
If they were willing to have a second warm-up (which they‘d need if there were 7 individual winners + 1 wildcard) anyway, why not go with a mixture of medals and scores? At this point, it‘s not that much of a difference time wise…
And I have nothing against Thorngren (or Levito, since her winning score wasn‘t exactly high either) but the goal should be to have the best skaters at the final. Period. And if that includes 6 Russians (or 5), then so be it. That was always the idea behind the GP. That, unlike at Worlds or the Olympics, there‘s no quota per country. So… this just looks odd to me.
As has been said by many in this thread, the first two stages were factually easier to win because there was less competition. I mean, that’s pretty obvious no matter how you look at it. And I‘m sorry to single out Thorngren here, but her winning score was 181 points. As a comparison, Zakharova, who was FOURTH in Kosice, got roughly 190. Sure, scores aren‘t always comparable between events but this is a pretty obvious indication of how unfair this qualification process the ISU‘s chosen is. It’s not even like usual years, where you sometimes end up with a bad draw but the Russian skaters (and the Korean, in some cases) literally weren‘t allowed to attend the first two events and had to be relocated.
If they were willing to have a second warm-up (which they‘d need if there were 7 individual winners + 1 wildcard) anyway, why not go with a mixture of medals and scores? At this point, it‘s not that much of a difference time wise…
And I have nothing against Thorngren (or Levito, since her winning score wasn‘t exactly high either) but the goal should be to have the best skaters at the final. Period. And if that includes 6 Russians (or 5), then so be it. That was always the idea behind the GP. That, unlike at Worlds or the Olympics, there‘s no quota per country. So… this just looks odd to me.
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I am pretty sure @el henry meant the SP because Isabeau does not wear a white dress in her FS. Her dress is mostly blue in the FS. I do agree that Isabeau's SP is much better than her FS. I also agree that if @el henry likes Isabeau then Sofia M is the Russian skater she should check out. Sofia M's programs aren't as good as Isabeau's SP. However, she is an equally good performer and she tries to hold positions when her programs allow her to.
I also agree that this is a good solution. There was never going to be a perfect solution. However, this is the way it has always been done with the difference that they are taking into account the scores for non-winners instead of just placements. The scoring between different events was dramatically different. Lindsay who someone else mentioned got only 180+ at her first GP event skated a very similar set of skates at her next even and got almost 14 points more. And, I found that ice dance panels were remarkably inconsistent in terms of their strictness of calling. How would using only scores be fair?
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I started a new thread so we can discuss the actual solution for all disciplines.
I will check out Sofia M. Is she like the Kirill of women? that is my other guidepost...
(Sorry, don't mean to start off topic....)
I will check out Sofia M.
Is she like the Kirill of women? that is my other guidepost...(Sorry, don't mean to start off topic....)
