Unattractive Choreography

[skylark]

Though the Russian pair (S/K) won the Grand Prix final, I was not crazy about some of the choreography in their program - in particular the lifts. One of the poses is quite ugly. It kind of looks like her legs are "scissor like" or an X. It's hard to describe. Anyway, I did not find I liked their program that much. Anyone else feel this way or any other program you find ugly?

I love their skating, their movement as a pair, their forcefulness and I get an impression of fearlessness. So I think their choreographer has a good grasp on how to create great programs for them.

However, I completely agree with you about some of Ksenia's air positions during the lifts. Some leg positions look awkward, and I hate that: pairs should always look elegant and make beautiful shapes IMO.

This is actually a pet peeve of mine, and it's something I feel has happened since we use IJS system. Pairs get more points for adding difficulty. The weird air positions often do add difficulty; therefore pairs are likely to incorporate them in their programs.

I also don't like Castelli/Tran's lift to show off Marissa's flexibility with her body a straight line, one leg to her head. (She did the same lift with former partner Simon Shnapir, and I didn't like it then either.) Mervin rotates her above his head like that and I think it looks stupid as well as unattractive. I noticed that Yu/Jin do the same lift; I still dislike it but because Yu is so slender it seems marginally less bad to me.

 

[Amei]

What an unexpected turn in this thread... people discussing dancer's butts and all

And it's not even the off-season yet :eekn:

Anyway, more offtopic: I always was curious why some people like Ice Dance much more than other FS disciplines (like I do), and some can't stand it, find it boring and all (and don't even know the names of top skaters, like Poje or Poirier).
It's like fanbase divided in two halfs: pro-ice dance fans, and pro-single skating and pairs skating fans. What is the reason??? I think it's a very interesting thing to discuss.

I think it's because they are very different, pairs/singles skating you've got jumps, spins and dangerous lifts, then there is ice dancing literally all of those things are taken away. Its not that I dislike ice dancing, I just find it incredibly dull and won't waste my time watching it, the only time I watched it was when Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto were skating at the Olympics because the US had like never won an Olympic medal for ice dancing.

 

[Shayuki]

Well to me at least, ice dance is really boring practically all the time and I generally dislike pair stuff in figure skating anyway. Both pairs and ice dance are skip about 90% of the time and ice dance around 100% of the time(some pair stuff I might watch). Ice Dance's just impossible for me to watch without falling asleep or starting to do something else... And it's definitely not the lack of jumps either because I could watch many solo skaters just skate all day. Ice Dance just is very boring to me personally.

 

[MaxSwagg]

For me it takes something special in dance. Belbin/Agosto and Domnina/Shabalin made dance exciting for me. I liked Tessa/Scott (well, mainly just Scott) but was never really into them and Davis/White. Hawayek and Baker are very exciting to me and I hope they take over. Weaver/Poje are cookie-cutter, Chock/Bates VERY overrated; sick of seeing Shibutanis screwed over...

 

[Snow63]

I don't know, I was a big fan of singles a couple of Olympic quads ago, because I liked jumps, spins etc. As for ice dance, it was okay for me, but not particulary interesting. Something changed, I don't even know when this happened, but now ice dance is my favourite discipline. And my least favourite is men (don't ask why, I just don't know!). I like the complicity of programms, choreography, stories, I LOVE dance steps when they done properly (not a parody that singles skaters execute), and wholeness of dances. Even best singles and pairs programms have holes in them, when skaters prepare for their jumps, telegraphing and all.

Ice Dance is definitely more art than sport, singles/pairs are the other way around.

 

[mrrice]

OK, I'm going to stop talking about butts and get back to Unattractive Choreography. This lady has the strangest choreography of any "Successful" skater I have ever seen. Even beating out her teammate Surya Bonaly. Laetitia Hubert

Her LP from Trophee Lalique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I9H-kjLU_Q

 

[Layback11]

What an unexpected turn in this thread... people discussing dancer's butts and all

Anyway, more offtopic: I always was curious why some people like Ice Dance much more than other FS disciplines (like I do), and some can't stand it, find it boring and all (and don't even know the names of top skaters, like Poje or Poirier).
It's like fanbase divided in two halfs: pro-ice dance fans, and pro-single skating and pairs skating fans. What is the reason??? I think it's a very interesting thing to discuss.

I like all the disciplines for different reasons.

In dance in particular, it's the theatricity that draws me to it. Since it's not dangerously athletic and requiring intense focus just to not die on each element, the skaters have to perform, and it's often completely OTT. And I also like the SDs, because it makes it easier to compare the teams.

I like singles because I can relate to it the most. While I don't even have doubles, I understand it better because I know what it feels like to do those jumps (as singles) and spins and footwork (on a much lower level, obviously). And men's and ladies are the "classic" disciplines that everyone associates with skating.

Pairs has the best personalities and I find it to be the most people-based, which makes it fun to follow for people who are more "fandom-y" types, if you know what I mean.

 

[NicolettaL]

Gracie SP this year does not fit her, she is stiff and has a sassy princessy smile while she should be just sexy.
Lori Nichols Firebird is just I'm sorry but for me as you all pointed out it's to literal. As I saw music choices I was like - oh yeah finally awesome choice. Maybe it will match my favourite Firebird FD by Russians - Khokhlova/Novitsky. But I'm damn disappointed. Really performing outstanding music as is Stravinski composition is not there.
Tukt choreography for this season is so bland. Like perform the jumps, do some spins throw rest out.
Actually I don't get all this dislikes for Polina Edmund's skating. She has amazing posture on the ice this year choreographies and musical choices are not there. But she has amazing body and posture to skate. That's was Radio misses this season.
Most bland choreography for me goes to Patrick Chan SP. Like I litteraly forget what I saw just after he finishes skating.

By the way. That's my first post here so hi everyone

 

[nolangoh]

Patrick's SP is tacky, from the music to the costume and the choreo. Elena's Titanic is not choreographically pretty, but the whole is a disaster so meh. Medvedeva has got too much unnecessary 'magic hands'. Gracie's firebird is generally ok, but there is this very moment of 'egg-laying' pose which is a bit......And yes, Elizaveta's everything.

Finally, Maxim Kovtun's FS. O M F G.

 

[karlowens2]

Patrick's SP is tacky, from the music to the costume and the choreo. Elena's Titanic is not choreographically pretty, but the whole is a disaster so meh. Medvedeva has got too much unnecessary 'magic hands'. Gracie's firebird is generally ok, but there is this very moment of 'egg-laying' pose which is a bit......And yes, Elizaveta's everything.

Finally, Maxim Kovtun's FS. O M F G.

Very funny, and pretty right on. Don't forget Jin's skating up and down the rink poppin out jumps before lapping back.

 

[nolangoh]

I feel painful for the men who tried to do a donut position but failed horribly and ended up with an ugly as hell position

And please no more butt spins. NO MORE!

 

[karlowens2]

This is actually a pet peeve of mine, and it's something I feel has happened since we use IJS system. Pairs get more points for adding difficulty. The weird air positions often do add difficulty; therefore pairs are likely to incorporate them in their programs.

Another pet peeve is that pairs rarely can do side by ide spins anymore. It was a staple fore th new system and beautiful to watch - the matching positions, mactching arch in arms/legs, and of course speed. Too busy trying to stay up on all those side by side jumps to bother with spins.

 

[karlowens2]

i dislike many of the ice dance lifts where she's twirling around his head and around his body. usually the skirt gets caught somehere or coves his eyes for a second or 2. someone could get hurt!

 

[NicolettaL]

After Italian Championships I have to say big no for the Marchei/Hotarek FP. Why? Because hella weirdo music choices. Staying Alive would fit perfectly for the whole program and this? It sounds like someone putted ipod to the mixer and that's the effect. Plus one of the lifts look like Ondrej is holding piece of a wood above his head. I don't mean to be offensive. Just Vale's position in the air in this lift looks so heavy.

 

[mrrice]

I finally found this clip of Dick Button being a, well......You know. His name says it all. ! This is laetitia Hubert's Free Program from 1998 Worlds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdeco_kA_E


Ughhhhh. Her SP was even worse....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byQX4oBfAf8

In her defense. The girl could jump..

 

[mrrice]

I feel painful for the men who tried to do a donut position but failed horribly and ended up with an ugly as hell position

And please no more butt spins. NO MORE!

You know who had a really good Donut Spin. Armin Mahbanoozadeh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdeco_kA_E

If this is a "Butt Spin" I think Emanuel Sandu does a great one. Sometimes there are moves that a skater shouldn't attempt. Like Plushy's Biellmann Spin.

Watch Eman's final combo spin. It's great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOSV7VdHEQs

 

[daphenaxa]

I am too lazy to find examples right now but the combination of 3 lifts in ice dance is usually always hideous (when they choose to do one lift with 3 different positions instead of the 3 small lifts separately). Only a few handful of teams can pull it off and even then it sometimes looks messy.

 

[LeReveur]

Any discussion about bad choreography must include Mary Scotvold. We all have our bad days, but Mary's work with Nancy Kerrigan was bad, bad, bad in my opinion. I think I heard Jenny Kirk say everyone who trained with the Scotvolds had the same moves, but did anyone really put out programs like Nancy's?

 

[Weathergal]

I finally found this clip of Dick Button being a, well......You know. His name says it all. ! This is laetitia Hubert's Free Program from 1998 Worlds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdeco_kA_E


Ughhhhh. Her SP was even worse....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byQX4oBfAf8

In her defense. The girl could jump..

I don't think Dick was being um, rude at all. Yes, he was direct and to the point, but he wasn't wrong. And quite frankly, he could have been more harsh. And even some of her jumps weren't there in that performance. I felt for her watching that program because she really needed a different choreographer--and one who could work with her on her carriage, lines, etc. And those spins weren't successful. Sorry, but I'm with Team Dick Button on this one.

 

[Sydney Rose]

Lori's choreography here is too literal. Patrick Commentates Skating has an analysis of all that is wrong with "Firebird."

Thanks so much for posting the link to Patrick Commentates Skating. I had never heard of him before but his critique of both Lori Nichols' choreography and also of Gracie as a skater helped clarify for me why I'm not a fan of either.

And his Polina Disney videos are a hoot!