What have been the sketchiest wins in major international competitions recently?

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

But can she fix her flutz or is she too set in her technique and now just a flutzer for life. Her flow out and transitions after especially in the SP are there but is she capable of fixing the flutz in your opinion?

Oh, she totally can. I think part of the problem is her lack of a vault on the jump compared to other reliable true lutzers. She draws her foot back and then pulls in the rotation (like Cohen) in order to fully rotate the jump instead of other skaters who can actually vault off the toe and then commence the rotation (thus maintaining the outside edge on takeoff). Given her stature and minuscule height on jumps, this is all she can do right now it seems, but if she gets stronger, she could revise her technique to have more height and vault.

It doesn't help though when the tech specialists (well, mainly in Russia) don't call her out on her flutz, or when posters here seem to deludedly think of her as an "occasional flutzer". Julia should do a couple GPs outside of Russia and she'll certainly be more encouraged to change her technique when she gets edge calls. At Worlds, she will most definitely be called on her flutzing moreso than in Sochi/Cup of Russia.

I don't think she WILL though... the rest of the 3-3 has nice qualities to it, such as the exit and flow, so even with an edge all she doesn't get nailed with -2's usually, so it's not a big deal. It should be stated again that Mao is to be commended for trying to change her technique on her lutz because it's a bit of an overhaul for a comparatively small benefit. That being said, I'm not a stickler for flutzing and believe people are a bit nuts when they bash skaters who lip or flutz, but I do believe they should be appropriately deducted when they do it.

 

[Poodlepal]

In 2010, Patrick Chan skated two back to back competitions--I think it was Skate Canada and Cup of Russia--and he made every type of mistake imaginable. Skating into the wall--check! Going off his music--check! Falling after a jump--check! Falling during footwork--check!

And each time, the announcers just made excuses for him. Well, it's because he's so committed to his footwork that he falls! The other skaters who didn't fall don't deserve as high a score as him! And he just feels the music, that's why he can't actually finish with it! It seems funny now, but that's when I realized that the judging system had pulled the sport off the rails. I think he only came in 2nd at one of the competitions, but he should have been worse than that.


Anyway, nothing I've ever seen has been as ridiculous as that. At least in every other case, you could make an argument that the right person won:
Adelina at least had more technical content and neither of them fell
Oksana at least did a tap dance and played to the audience
Sarah was clean and did triple triples, which neither Michelle or Irina could boast
Tara did a triple loop/triple loop

and so on. But in the glory days of PChiddy? It was just ridiculous what he got away with.

 

[L_Canada]

Jamie/David 2002 Olympics. What a disgrace they were! Sore losers. They could not stand losing to an artistically superior Russian team on North American ice. They just cried, moaned, whined and threw a massive tantrum until the IOC forced the ISU to give them Olympic gold. I only acknowledge Elena and Anton as the rightful gold medalists from 2002.



Jamie and David were pretty good? It was the federation and the media.

Talk about a Canada hating post. woah!

 

[moviechick]

I don't know about David since he seems to talk less, but Jaime Salle was so incredibly annoying in 2002 and has been ever since.

 

[DaveT]

Sotnikova 14 O's
Bauil 94 O's
Slutskaya 02 GPF

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Oh, she totally can. I think part of the problem is her lack of a vault on the jump compared to other reliable true lutzers. She draws her foot back and then pulls in the rotation (like Cohen) in order to fully rotate the jump instead of other skaters who can actually vault off the toe and then commence the rotation (thus maintaining the outside edge on takeoff). Given her stature and minuscule height on jumps, this is all she can do right now it seems, but if she gets stronger, she could revise her technique to have more height and vault.

It doesn't help though when the tech specialists (well, mainly in Russia) don't call her out on her flutz, or when posters here seem to deludedly think of her as an "occasional flutzer". Julia should do a couple GPs outside of Russia and she'll certainly be more encouraged to change her technique when she gets edge calls. At Worlds, she will most definitely be called on her flutzing moreso than in Sochi/Cup of Russia.

I don't think she WILL though... the rest of the 3-3 has nice qualities to it, such as the exit and flow, so even with an edge all she doesn't get nailed with -2's usually, so it's not a big deal. It should be stated again that Mao is to be commended for trying to change her technique on her lutz because it's a bit of an overhaul for a comparatively small benefit. That being said, I'm not a stickler for flutzing and believe people are a bit nuts when they bash skaters who lip or flutz, but I do believe they should be appropriately deducted when they do it.

At SC, with a non-Russian technical caller (not even European?), Yulia did not receive an edge call for the 3-3 in the SP or LP, but did receive one for the 3-2 later in the LP. If you say this is just a biased or more lenient caller, it was the same caller who gave edge calls for all three lutzes at the European Championships. At Rostelecom Cup only the SP 3-3 needs to be considered because the 3-3 in the LP had all -3 GOE and the 3-2 was turned to a 2-2 and received negative GOE anyway. Since it was executed so well and it's really hard to tell, I'm willing to give the SP 3-3 the benefit of the doubt. At GPF with Mr. Amano, she would of course receive edge calls because he is very strict for all skaters, so even though it's borderline and needs scrutiny, with him it will always be called. I'm alright with that because he's known to be fair. At the Olympics, I'm not sure what to think anymore. I'm pretty sure after scrutinizing it in Movie Gallery that the 3-3 was on the flat, maybe, but definitely not the inside edge while the 3-2 in the LP was definitely messed up in the team event, and I'm pretty sure it was on an inside edge.

She also is dedicated to fixing it. You remember that article, that people were criticizing her for a little while ago, where she supposedly said something along the lines of she doesn't flutz, or nobody can do a proper Lutz? But that was google translating word by word, not actually giving the true meaning. It was clear from taking what you're seeing with a grain a salt that she first described how when she was first landing the jump, they did it over and over and over again constantly, until it became automatic. She acknowledges that it was with the wrong technique going on to say that with Eteri they have time in practice set aside solely for practicing the true technique. When she said that no one does a true lutz, she is speaking about the other skaters in her coach's group. It's obvious because her previous sentence was that all of them have Proper Lutz Classes. She mentions that sometimes she's on an outside edge but more often on both or the inside edge. I'm relatively certain that that is one of the things she wants to fix for next season.

 

[christiannnw]

Not going to rank since I'm pretty much making these selections off the top of my head (and some are not so recent, but oh well), so:

Duchesnay/Duchesnay 1991 WC (preference: Usova/Zhulin)
Anett Potzsch 1980 Olympics and WC (preference for Olympics: Denise Bielmann, though unrealistic thanks to compulsories)
Trixi Schuba 1972 Olympics (preference: Janet Lynn, and again dang those compulsories!)
Virtue/Moir 2012 WC (preference: Davis/White)
Patrick Chan 2012 WC (preference: Daisuke Takahashi)
Irina Slutskaya 2005 WC (I think she deserved it, but her score seemed a bit inflated compared to Sasha Cohen's; home field advantage?)
Grishuk/Platov 1998 Olympics (Preference: Bourne/Kraatz)
Anything Bestiamova and Bukin have won save for 1986 WC

 

[ILuvYuna]

Oh, come on, I think loving Yuna's skating is so obvious as to almost be rational. Plus notice the poster admitted s/he was beating the dead horse with a really cute gif.

Glad you liked it rally, and you are right - I'm just making fun of the whole debacle

 

[Angela V]

Skaters who I think did NOT deserve their gold medal:

Jamie/David 2002 Olympics. What a disgrace they were! Sore losers. They could not stand losing to an artistically superior Russian team on North American ice. They just cried, moaned, whined and threw a massive tantrum until the IOC forced the ISU to give them Olympic gold. I only acknowledge Elena and Anton as the rightful gold medalists from 2002.

A judge confessed to the fix. Because of that we had no idea how the scores would've really went. When there is proof presented, how could action NOT be taken?!??!

"Oh I'm sorry. There is proof but some still think you don't deserve the Gold, so suck it up Jamie and David."

 

[usethis2]

Chan had 4 falls (literally 4 falls, 3 in the short, 1 in the long) at Skate Canada 2010 and still beat Oda who apart from 1 fall in the long was perfect otherwise over 2 programs. Chans jumps that he so much as stood up all got higher PCS than any Oda did, despite that Oda is a magnificent jumper, and probably an even better one than Hanyu.

lol I watched that SP on YouTube. Hilarious stuff.

P.S. OMG his FS was a mess, too. Geez.

 

[moviechick]

lol I watched that SP on YouTube. Hilarious stuff.

P.S. OMG his FS was a mess, too. Geez.

I think the best part is the Canadian commentary trying to justify/defend it.. Like that's pretty desperate.

 

[Silvia451]

lol I watched that SP on YouTube. Hilarious stuff.

P.S. OMG his FS was a mess, too. Geez.

He was overscored, but I must admit, despite the mistakes, I liked the program. :think: (just a non expert opinion). There were other performances when I think he didn't deserve to win.

 

[karne]

A judge confessed to the fix. Because of that we had no idea how the scores would've really went. When there is proof presented, how could action NOT be taken?!??!

"Oh I'm sorry. There is proof but some still think you don't deserve the Gold, so suck it up Jamie and David."

The same judge later admitted that there was no fix, that she had been threatened by members of the North American press to say so.

 

[Zamboni]

Ranking

1. Adelina Sotnikova's "Win" in Sochi

2. Patrick Chan's "Win" at the 2012 World Championships


What are your thoughts on skaters who most likely didn't deserve their gold medals?

Just think, if Yulia had stayed on her feet in the ladies competition she and Adelina would undoubtedly have finished first and second. Although who would have finished first and who would have finished second is up for debate. And Carolina would have been off the podium. It was obvious that was the plan.

 

[karne]

People complain about the Russians, but the most disgusting bit of overscoring in recent years is still the fact that this mess of a program got a 73.

 

[Olympic]

Oksana 1994 is still my first pick even post-Sochi.

Annett Poetzsch is my #2 pick

 

[will74lsn]

I agree. I would also like to add:

Shen/Zhao, 2003 Worlds

Really? Their FS was amazing; got a standing ovation 30 seconds before the end.

 

[L_Canada]

The same judge later admitted that there was no fix, that she had been threatened by members of the North American press to say so.

I have also heard she was threatened by the French federation to take it back and say North American Fed's pressured her.

By this point her credibility in my mind was shot. Sad that this crap still goes on though.

 

[dorispulaski]

Really? Their FS was amazing; got a standing ovation 30 seconds before the end.

Absolutely. That was one of the all time great performances. The American audience was completely enthralled with it. I was there.


http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?746-Thoughts-on-DC-Relation-of-Skaters-to-the-Audience&highlight=Audience

 

[Orange Cat]

In 2010, Patrick Chan skated two back to back competitions--I think it was Skate Canada and Cup of Russia--and he made every type of mistake imaginable. Skating into the wall--check! Going off his music--check! Falling after a jump--check! Falling during footwork--check!

And each time, the announcers just made excuses for him. Well, it's because he's so committed to his footwork that he falls! The other skaters who didn't fall don't deserve as high a score as him! And he just feels the music, that's why he can't actually finish with it! It seems funny now, but that's when I realized that the judging system had pulled the sport off the rails. I think he only came in 2nd at one of the competitions, but he should have been worse than that.


Anyway, nothing I've ever seen has been as ridiculous as that. At least in every other case, you could make an argument that the right person won:
Adelina at least had more technical content and neither of them fell
Oksana at least did a tap dance and played to the audience
Sarah was clean and did triple triples, which neither Michelle or Irina could boast
Tara did a triple loop/triple loop

and so on. But in the glory days of PChiddy? It was just ridiculous what he got away with.

Haha, alas, that is true... I'm still sore about 2012 Worlds, though. How on earth did PChiddy get gifted with gold over Dai? I think 2012 Worlds was even more of a travesty than 2013 Worlds (neither of which are titles that Patrick deserves, I feel)