Which layout does Trusova need to win?
- Thread starter Skatesocs
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Not in the layout in the post I replied to. You can’t repeat all three of these. The most logical thing in that layout would be to replace the solo loop with a flop again.
OK, so the problem is the repeated loop, right? Now I see it. My layout had the single flip instead of the single loop.
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- Jun 6, 2019
I agree about quad combo in basis of that if she misses the first 4T she has a chance to put combo on second- but if first 4T has no combo then she misses the combo she will get +combo.
Although putting +eu+3S on second one wouldn't be an issue and +3T on first one (momentum is always useful for euler combos with salchow and 4T gets a lot of momentum)
My take on Trusova is that she needs to focus on fewer jumps. Her problem now, IMO, is that she is training all the quads + the 3A.
She needs two 4Lzs. That's the money bringer quad after all.
She can add a 4T in the second half as that seems to be her most stable quad.
She needs the 3A in both short and long.
Training the 4Lo is a total waste of time. Her 4S is not stable and she often pops it, so skip it. Her 4F we haven't seen this season, I hope she's not wasting any time on that either.
If she only trains 4Lz, 4T and 3A she might get them super stable and she can go clean.
Most of all what Trusova needs is a couple more clean skates like at RusNats. Then her GOE's and PCS will go up...she should start there IMO.
She needs two 4Lzs. That's the money bringer quad after all.
She can add a 4T in the second half as that seems to be her most stable quad.
She needs the 3A in both short and long.
Training the 4Lo is a total waste of time. Her 4S is not stable and she often pops it, so skip it. Her 4F we haven't seen this season, I hope she's not wasting any time on that either.
If she only trains 4Lz, 4T and 3A she might get them super stable and she can go clean.
Most of all what Trusova needs is a couple more clean skates like at RusNats. Then her GOE's and PCS will go up...she should start there IMO.
I put it there, because her +Eu+3S off quads hasn't been good in competition. Plus, the 4T and 4T+3T are looking good in terms of jump quality. She needs all the GOE she can get.
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- Jun 6, 2019
Then she gets beaten by Kamala with 4T, 4S and 3A.
Honestly there is a reason she trys 4S, and that's because she might need it.
4Lo is something she's training to set a record for, but would be useless for her.
Wow, what can't that woman do!
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- Jan 25, 2013
There are plenty of axels that could earn +5 (Kolyada’s or Yan’s for example, or even Chen’s now that he does a spread eagle directly into it) and there are axels of Hanyu’s that don’t deserve +5 (ones that don’t have a difficult transition or have a faulty landing).
Jason Brown’s current wallet sequence into his 3F is a +5 of perfectly done.. but it’s slippery ice and any air or landing issues should adversely affect the GOE. It’s like saying his spins should be +5 - sure, but if he does insufficient rotations or doesn’t centre or misses an edge change, etc that needs to be taken into account.
I think judging elements it’s important to start at 0 and work your way up or down and that’s what judges are trained to do ... not automatically give a de facto +5 to a skater as long as the element is cleanly executed. Some judges will also give +5 like candy and others will never give +5 unless the skater makes the element truly exceptional with no errors on position, flow, etc which some fans might overlook or be more lenient on their own GOE scoresheets.
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I'm not so sure. If Trusova has two 4Lzs she has an edge. But she absolutely needs the 3A at this point, and that is probably the hardest one for her to get stable.
Yes, I know Trusova wants to set records, and that 4Lo is the one she wants now. But it's time to decide, records or success. That 4Lo will probably be landed by Samodelkina soon, so Trusova should drop that quad.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
Did you see Russian nationals? Kamala with 2 x 4T beat trusova with 2 x 4Lz. Neither had a 3A, but with both 3A it'd be even.
4S is worth more more 4Tz so Kamala with 2 x 4T and a 4S will beat Sasha with 3 quads.
Sasha needs an extra ultra C element over Kamila or Kamila wins when clean.
There's no reason for two 4Lz passes for Trusova. What kolyadafan says is right, that she needs to one up Valieva on the ultra-Cs. In order to do this, she'll need a 3A in the SP and the LP for sure. In the LP then she'll be doing a 3A, and 3 quads for sure, but since Valieva is likely to add a third quad of her own by next season into the LP, Trusova will need a fourth quad.
This means, if we go with two 4Lz passes, we have:
Quad
4Lz+3T
4Lz
3A
4T x
3Lz pass
3Lz pass
The most taxing quad in the front half done two times + an additional less accomplished quad + 3A that she hasn't yet landed will be way too much energy, nor are we guaranteed to see great quality on all those things - definitely not the unknown quad or the 3A. OTOH, if we put the 4T+3T (done with good quality before), solo 4Lz, and a solo 4T, she can focus more in the first half with jumps she's less confident with. I choose the 4S for her unknown quad, because the one she hit in the Russia Cup stages was easily +3 to +4 for me.
You can optimize her layout more, BTW:
4S
4Lz
3A
4T+3T
spin
4T x
3Lz+1Lo+3S x
3Lz+3Lo x
step sequence
spin
chsq
spin
Literally only one spin in between all the jumps will make it easier for her to land everything.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I hope that she doesn't follow the Shcherbakova route and plan 4 Lutz jumps in her 7 allowed passes. I like the second layout better. The first is kind of one-trick pony, to me. (I know, know. When Anna wins the Olympics she can hold up her gold medal and say, Pony THIS, foo.!)
But I agree that just doing four lutz passes is too monotonous. Judges won't care, but I agree with your consideration, as a viewer.
The second layout also has the advantage to go: edge jump, toe jump, edge jump, toe jump. For Trusova, from my recollection, it will be: circular set up, straight set up, circular set up, straight set up. Less monotonous.
I get what you're saying, and I agree. Trusova needs an extra ultra-c element compared to Anna and Kamila - for now.
But I agree that just doing four lutz passes is too monotonous. Judges won't care, but I agree with your consideration, as a viewer.
The second layout also has the advantage to go: edge jump, toe jump, edge jump, toe jump. For Trusova, from my recollection, it will be: circular set up, straight set up, circular set up, straight set up. Less monotonous.
But I am also convinced that if Sasha can get more CLEAN skates her PCS and GOE will go up, so the advantage that Anna/Kamila will have on
spins will be negligible.
So throw in an extra 4T then. My point is that she should focus on only three hard elements, not all of them. But she needs those two quad Lutzes and she absolutely needs the 3A in both short and long.
Overall, I find this discussion on what Trusova should do to win very interesting. But we mustn't forget that what she needs most of all is CLEAN skates. So far, we've only seen it once, at RusNats this year. And Anna/Kamila has much better success rate at this time. So, there is where the problem lies...
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- Jun 6, 2019
She went clean at Rusnats and Kamila beat her. skating clean with less quads doesn't help her win.
You can't do 2 x 4Lz and 2x 4T (rules).
More clean skates SHOULDN'T affect the PCS of an individual clean skate (it would slightly, but shouldn't) - but more to the point Kamila and Anna got a higher technical score. Sasha got less points for a 4Lz than Sherbakova for 4F, and just one point above Kamila's 4T. That's not enough for Sasha to rely on doing same number of quads that are more difficult.
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- Oct 14, 2019
Sasha just can't beat Anna or Kamila at Russian domestic competitions if either of the two go somewhat clean. They have too much of a PCS and GOE advantage. You know something's up when Sasha's gorgeous 4Lz-3T at Russian Nationals is only worth two points more in TES than Kamila's 4T-2T when the 4Lz-3T has almost five points more in BV. In one of the Russian cup events, Sasha beat Kamila after she had a disaster in the free program, falling on a 4T and messing up both of her 3Lz later in the program, thus missing out on a combination jump. Even after this disaster, Kamila still scored higher in PCS than Sasha when Sasha was somewhat clean, falling on only her 3Lz-3Lo and having a slightly rough landing on a quad. The main thing is that, no one has had international competitions this season, so it is unclear how much of a GOE advantage (if any) that Anna or Kamila would have there. In international competitions, Sasha and Anna have always had similar jump GOE in the past, so let's see if that will still be true next season.
