Yu-Na Kim or Kim Yu-Na?

[seniorita]

But when she is in America, she prefers to be called Ro Laren.....I mean YuNa Kim.

LOL!!!
Maybe she should skate to StarTrek soundtrack then!

 

[daihard]

This is my first post here, too, although I've been following figure skating for quite some time...

I was googling for some info on why NBC calls her "Kim Yu-Na" (with an accent on 'Na') when I hit this forum.

It is true that many Asian countries, including Korea, China and Japan, address people with their surname first.

Having said that, I wonder why Yu-Na Kim is to be singled out? They sure don't call the Japanese skaters "Ando Miki" or "Asada Mao." What is this inconsistency?

 

[ehdtkqorl123]

Having said that, I wonder why Yu-Na Kim is to be singled out? They sure don't call the Japanese skaters "Ando Miki" or "Asada Mao." What is this inconsistency?

Maybe they are showing respect to Yu-Na?

 

[gourry]

Having said that, I wonder why Yu-Na Kim is to be singled out? They sure don't call the Japanese skaters "Ando Miki" or "Asada Mao." What is this inconsistency?

I wonder the same thing!
Maybe it is up to the skaters' preference...? Yuna wanted to be called KIM Yuna and Miki wanted to be called Miki Ando?
Anyway it all started from last SA. Before that, it was all 'Yuna Kim', never 'KIM Yuna'. Or maybe it is just NBC thing...? ESPN used to call her Yuna Kim.
How about CBC or British Eurosports?

 

[R.D.]

Ever since NBC took over US skating coverage, they've called her "Kim Yuna". ESPN/ABC called her Yuna Kim, her ISU name is displayed as Yuna Kim, even her twitter name is Yuna Kim. So I assume she's ok with (and even embraces) being referred to by the Western convention of Yuna Kim. So, not sure why NBC insists on going with Kim Yuna. I think it will only confuse viewers...

 

[RUKen]

Ever since NBC took over US skating coverage, they've called her "Kim Yuna". ESPN/ABC called her Yuna Kim, her ISU name is displayed as Yuna Kim, even her twitter name is Yuna Kim. So I assume she's ok with (and even embraces) being referred to by the Western convention of Yuna Kim. So, not sure why NBC insists on going with Kim Yuna. I think it will only confuse viewers...

NBC Sports has, for many years, called all Korean and Chinese athletes by surname first. It would be far more confusing if they called some athletes from these countries by surname first, and others by surname last.

 

[daihard]

Maybe they are showing respect to Yu-Na?

How would calling her "Kim Yu-Na" show her respect when she goes by "Yu-Na Kim" in North America herself?

 

[Kitty in Boots]

Hope this clear things up

The change to "Kim Yu-na(family name first)" is based on east-asian romanizing traditions rather than individual preference. (Yu-na herself doesn't seem to care much about how her name is represented.) In most east-asian countries, the family name goes first even when they write the names in English, and since this is considered "politically correct"(from the Cultural Relativism POV) and "practical"(since it helps you to communicate with the local population better; imagine the confusion when a city named after Ho Chi-Minh is spelled Chi-Minh Ho in English.), official governmental documents and academic papers generally follow this rule. Japan is an exception; they seem to prefer putting their given name first in English despite the fact that their Japanese names also follow the east asian tradition. Take for example, Mao Zhedong(Chinese), Shen Xue/Zhao Hongbo(Chinese), Ho Chi-minh(Vietnamese), Ban Ki-moon(Korean), in every case the family name comes first(China's Lu Chen is an exception to this rule, but I think her case was rather a happening of a Chinese gaining international spotlight for the first time - quite similar to Yu-na's case.), while in the case of Japanese names e.g. Yukio Hatoyama, Akira Kurosawa, Yasunari Kawabata, etc, it's generally represented in the western order(given name-family name). Of course, Asian immigrants in western countries or some special places like Hong Kong tend to follow the western tradition so their names are spelled differently(a la Michelle Kwan, Jackie Chan). The problem is, many asians themselves don't strictly follow this rule so that leads to a lot of confusion. However, the "Family name-Given name" order is considered to be the standard way of representing names in many east asian countries, especially in China and Korea. (Even in the case of Japanese names, in many cases they are spelled in the traditional asian order when it comes to academic papers.) So the change to "Kim Yu-na" by the US media is actually a fix to what they were doing wrong. (It's not like they were doing something terribly wrong though; most Koreans including me don't mind it at all, although I do think correcting this will reduce a lot of potential confusions like "Why is Kim Jong-il spelled this way and Yu-na Kim that way?")
My English is pretty poor so I hope I didn't cause any misunderstandings. Hope this clears things up.

 

[Ptolemy]

NBC Sports has, for many years, called all Korean and Chinese athletes by surname first. It would be far more confusing if they called some athletes from these countries by surname first, and others by surname last.

I don't think so. They have never referred to Korean golfers that way and there are lots of them on the LPGA tour.

 

[Ptolemy]

Maybe this has already been posted but it would appear Yu Na prefers Yu Na Kim in the West

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/olympics_blog/2009/03/no-matter-how-y.html

 

[newvie]

Maybe this has already been posted but it would appear Yu Na prefers Yu Na Kim in the West

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/olympics_blog/2009/03/no-matter-how-y.html

Thanks for the interesting article!
However, I don't find Yuna's direct statement about her preference in this article?

I guess she doesn't care much about the name order issue. If shes says you can call me 'Yuna Kim', then it might be because that's the western custom and she respects it and she doesn't want to confuse people in the int'l settings. You know, Kim is quite a common first name in the states.

As for Yeon-Ah vs Yu-Na issue, I understand her. In my case, I pronounce my name in French way. It doesn't sound like my real name, but I can't force pple to make 'h' sound when that sound doesn't exist in their language. It's the same for other alphabets for my name. They have their ways of pronouncing them and I don't want them to hesitate to call my name worrying they would offend me with wrong pronunciation. It's quite tiring to keep correct them as well. So, this was how I started integrating myself in the French society - pronouncing my name in the French way

 

[daihard]

As for Yeon-Ah vs Yu-Na issue, I understand her.

Her first name is spelled in two Hanguls (연아). The first one represents "yeon," the second "a." However, due to a phonetic convention of the Korean language, the "n" in "yeon" is connected with the "a," making it sound like "yeona" together. The Hangul represented by "eo" actually sounds pretty close to the English short "o".

Just my two cents.

 

[daihard]

The change to "Kim Yu-na(family name first)" is based on east-asian romanizing traditions rather than individual preference. (Yu-na herself doesn't seem to care much about how her name is represented.) In most east-asian countries, the family name goes first even when they write the names in English, and since this is considered "politically correct"(from the Cultural Relativism POV) and "practical"(since it helps you to communicate with the local population better; imagine the confusion when a city named after Ho Chi-Minh is spelled Chi-Minh Ho in English.), official governmental documents and academic papers generally follow this rule. Japan is an exception; they seem to prefer putting their given name first in English despite the fact that their Japanese names also follow the east asian tradition. Take for example, Mao Zhedong(Chinese), Shen Xue/Zhao Hongbo(Chinese), Ho Chi-minh(Vietnamese), Ban Ki-moon(Korean), in every case the family name comes first(China's Lu Chen is an exception to this rule, but I think her case was rather a happening of a Chinese gaining international spotlight for the first time - quite similar to Yu-na's case.), while in the case of Japanese names e.g. Yukio Hatoyama, Akira Kurosawa, Yasunari Kawabata, etc, it's generally represented in the western order(given name-family name). Of course, Asian immigrants in western countries or some special places like Hong Kong tend to follow the western tradition so their names are spelled differently(a la Michelle Kwan, Jackie Chan). The problem is, many asians themselves don't strictly follow this rule so that leads to a lot of confusion. However, the "Given name-Family name" order is considered to be the official way of representing names in many east asian countries, especially in China and Korea. (Even in the case of Japanese names, in many cases they are spelled in the traditional asian order when it comes to academic papers.) So the change to "Kim Yu-na" by the US media is actually a fix to what they were doing wrong. (It's not like they were doing something terribly wrong though; most Koreans including me don't mind it at all, although I do think correcting this will reduce a lot of potential confusions like "Why is Kim Jong-il spelled this way and Yu-na Kim that way?")
My English is pretty poor so I hope I didn't cause any misunderstandings. Hope this clears things up.

First of all, I don't think your English is poor at all. I totally understand what you're saying.

I agree with you that we need consistency here. It just never occurred to me that the Korean names are already written in the Korean order in the U.S. media, but you're right. I've never seen that guy referred to as "Jong-il Kim."

My personal opinion is that the local convention should be respected. By local, I mean the place where the event occurs, the article is written and read, etc. For instance, the local announcements made in the Cup of China should address everyone, including the Europeans, in the Chinese manner; Weir Johnny, for instance. On the other hand, the U.S. media broadcasting the event in the U.S. should follow the English rule. What do you think?

 

[sjwh08]

The most of the cases when US media goes on surname-first basis are when they refer to Asian presidents or U.N. personnels (i.e. when the matter is diplomatic and it's not appropriate to follow one country's custom but not the other.)

However, I can't remember the case in which athletes are called in this way. I'd prefer if they just call her Yu-na Kim.

Also, Yu-na seems to be contend with the way her name's spelled, probably because it's simpler than the actual pronunciation in Korea. It doesn't seem to be necessary that fans try hard to clarify what's her real name is since it's obviously not a misunderstanding by anyone. Yu-na is what's on her passport.

I guess I'm so very bored in between competitions..

 

[samsarah]

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." William shakespeare

 

[daihard]

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." William shakespeare

So true. That should wrap up this thread nicely.

 

[Kitty in Boots]

The most of the cases when US media goes on surname-first basis are when they refer to Asian presidents or U.N. personnels (i.e. when the matter is diplomatic and it's not appropriate to follow one country's custom but not the other.)

However, I can't remember the case in which athletes are called in this way. I'd prefer if they just call her Yu-na Kim.

Not really. I did a google search on a few well-known Korean names, and this is what I got(the family name is written in capitals):

(Korean Sports Stars)
PARK Ji-sung - 982,000 hits : (mainly European-based) Soccer player
Ji-sung PARK - 325,000 hits

PARK Se-ri - 58,100 hits : Golfer
Se-ri PARK - 32,900 hits

PARK Chan-ho - 49,800 hits : Major League baseball player
Chan-ho PARK - 578,000 hits

CHOO Shin-soo - 28,500 hits : Major League baseball player
Shin-soo CHOO - 182,000 hits

PARK Tae-hwan - 35,200 hits : Swimmer
Tae-hwan PARK - 5,140 hits
(lol.. I've just realized that if you want to become a Korean international sports star, your surname has to be PARK)

As you can see, in most cases the traditional Asian order is more popular than the western order, with the exception of the two Major-leaguers whose activities are based almost solely in the U.S.(and thus can be regarded as semi-immigrants). U.S seems to be the place that the media represents Asian names in the western order most frequently, probably because they are influenced by the large number of Asian immigrants who tend to write their names down in the western order. However most other places seem to follow the Asian order more.

Now let's take a look at some other well-known Korean celebrities(mostly entertainers):

BAE Yong-joon - 463,000 hits
Yong-joon BAE - 4,300 hits

LEE Yong-ae - 1,290,000 hits
Yong-ae LEE - 2,830 hits

LEE Jun-ki - 3,240,000 hits
Jun-ki LEE - 27,100 hits

SONG Hye-kyo - 2,940,000 hits
Hye-kyo SONG - 15,400 hits

(Notice the overwelming difference in the Asian-western ratio. This is probably due to the fact they are mostly popular among Asian countries, but not very well known in the west.)

Finally, let's take a look at how Korean names are represented in Encyclopedia Britannica:
YI Sun Shin
YI Seung Man
KIM Dae Jung

I think it's safe to say the Asian naming order is considered to be the standard way of representing Korean names. The thing is, Korean romanizing is currently a mess so I think following a preset standard is a good way to clear things up a little. It may seem a little awkward to some who are more familiar with the "non-standard" order(whichever it is) at first, but if things keep up I think they will get accustomed to it soon enough.

Of course, these 'standards' are merely guidelines. In fact, if your activities are mostly based in western countries it will be a lot more convenient if you follow the western tradition instead of telling people "You may call me Miss Kim" all the time. So I guess it's all up to Yu-na's preference, but if she doesn't favor any, I think it's good for the media to try following the standard. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kitty in Boots]

First of all, I don't think your English is poor at all. I totally understand what you're saying.

Thanks!

My personal opinion is that the local convention should be respected. By local, I mean the place where the event occurs, the article is written and read, etc. For instance, the local announcements made in the Cup of China should address everyone, including the Europeans, in the Chinese manner; Weir Johnny, for instance. On the other hand, the U.S. media broadcasting the event in the U.S. should follow the English rule. What do you think?

While I agree with your point about respecting the local convention, I don't think what you've suggested will be very good, since the name of the same person will change every time thus leading to a lot of inconsistancy.

 

[sjwh08]

Not really. I did a google search on a few well-known Korean names, and this is what I got(the family name is written in capitals):

(Korean Sports Stars)
PARK Ji-sung - 982,000 hits : (mainly European-based) Soccer player
Ji-sung PARK - 325,000 hits

PARK Se-ri - 58,100 hits : Golfer
Se-ri PARK - 32,900 hits

PARK Chan-ho - 49,800 hits : Major League baseball player
Chan-ho PARK - 578,000 hits

CHOO Shin-soo - 28,500 hits : Major League baseball player
Shin-soo CHOO - 182,000 hits

PARK Tae-hwan - 35,200 hits : Swimmer
Tae-hwan PARK - 5,140 hits
(lol.. I've just realized that if you want to become a Korean international sports star, your surname has to be PARK)

Finally, let's take a look at how Korean names are represented in Encyclopedia Britannica:
YI Sun Shin
YI Seung Man
KIM Dae Jung

Good work!

Just several things that come to my mind.

-The google search of "Park Ji-sung" also returns "Park, Ji-sung", which is by the way another good way to mitigate confusions (seems to be a middle ground when listing names from different countries).

-As far as I know, the golfer's official last name is Pak (So the name Park Se-ri is more likely to be written by eastern media/individuals.)

-The names from Encyclopedia Britannica seem to be those of presidents or someone who lived hundreds of years ago, which was exactly my point.

However, let me clarify I'm not against the eastern way of addressing name. I'm rather indifferent. I just wanted to point out that, for Yu-na's case, it seems to be better if it's just Yu-na Kim, given that she herself said on the road she's Yu-na Kim and NBC is broadcasting to American public.

Following local conventions is not an evil thing. I know Japanese media calls Yuna Kim as KIMOO-YONA. I can imagine other non-English speaking countries' broadcasters would call her whatever they think is closest to her real name in their own languages using their conventions of listing a surname and a first name, to let their own public know which one's the surname.

I just want to say it's not something to sweat on.

 

[daihard]

Thanks!

While I agree with your point about respecting the local convention, I don't think what you've suggested will be very good, since the name of the same person will change every time thus leading to a lot of inconsistancy.

By the way, did you happen to read one of my previous posts (#52) regarding the pronunciation of "Yeon-Ah"? I believe I am correct, but if you could kindly check my post, I would much appreciate it. 고마워요!