State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[Icey]

Ashley's jump content at Skate Canada was watered down, opening with a 2a. Even with the watered down content, there were technical glitches: a total of 4 ur's and 2 uncertain edge calls on the flip in her programs.

 

[starlight97]

Ashley's jump content at Skate Canada was watered down, opening with a 2a. Even with the watered down content, there were technical glitches: a total of 4 ur's and 2 uncertain edge calls on the flip in her programs.

Yes. But if I had to decide I'd rather watch a skater perform her program and underrotate her jumps than one who has absolutely no connection or enjoyment to her program and pops her jumps or falls.
There is no "Oh my how incredibly strong! " lady in the US right now, they all have some flaws/weaknesses.

 

[minze]

Let's not forget Courtney Hicks her programs this year are good, she has speed and the quality of her jumps when landed are amazing. If she becomes consistent she could be a contender. When she lands her jumps she gets big GOE.

 

[chuckm]

Even with the URs and little glitches, Ashley works her music and SELLS her programs to the nth degree. She got the highest PCS scores of all the ladies at Skate Canada, and that's what earned her the silver medal.

Alena Leonova was able to succeed with her SP with her great Chaplinesque characterization, but her FS was so sloppy and slapdash that it derailed her efforts to portray a vamp.

 

[MK's Winter]

I was in the arena at Skate America and Mirai WAS slow. She landed each jump slowly and deliberately, with concentrated effort, so much so that her entire performance was without any expression. I believe that Mirai just doesn't have confidence in her jumping ability when it comes to the actual competition. She's fine in practice and in warmup, but the minute it's time to compete, it's freeze-up time. She has to concentrate all her attention on doing the jumps, which is why she doesn't show any emotion, make an effort to sell the program, or try to connect with the audience.

I don't think she is slow overall may be in some spots but she is attacking a lot more than last year. In her exhibition s she clearly has speed. I'm pulling quotes for her coaches. She is still in a re build this year she has only been working with Tom since May. She has made some strides she just needs to stop putting pressure on herself.

 

[Poodlepal]

" SA wasn't her best competition, but it wasn't horrible either."

This is the problem with most of the US Ladies. It seems we've lowered our expectations over the years but, I certainly remember a time when all the US ladies could deliver programs that were at the very least, entertaining. I expect more than "Not Horrible" from our National Champions. In fact, I expect more than not horrible, from all the medalists at nationals.

Agree 100%. If someone were to say 15 years ago that we would be or have to be happy with someone not being "horrible," making the final flight of skaters, or having 2 people come in 6th or 7th so that they have three spots so that next year someone could come in 6th or 7th, we'd be horrified. It was only recently that we expected not one but two ladies on the podium, for heaven's sake.

Part of it may be an explosion of talent in other countries--Michelle and Tara and Sasha and Sarah only had to deal with one or two Russian girls, not the infinite number there seem to be now--but there does seem to be something else wrong. Time after time the top American gets under the podium but not on it. Someone will eventually end this slump, but it's not going to be Gracie or Ashley.

 

[Skater Boy]

Yes. But if I had to decide I'd rather watch a skater perform her program and underrotate her jumps than one who has absolutely no connection or enjoyment to her program and pops her jumps or falls.
There is no "Oh my how incredibly strong! " lady in the US right now, they all have some flaws/weaknesses.

I hear you but I am not so sure what Mirai is doing. Is she so focussed she is losing connection with the audience? I mean look at her Carmen in 2010 sure it was notwell intepreted with the Miss America smile but she did reach out to the audience and now she doesn't even connect at the starting position. I think she has a lot of natural skill she just is having trouble releasing it. The right coach and who knows - admittedly her body type is no longer ideal but she is still slim; whatever her issues are I hope she reolves them or moves on to something new that can satisfy her. Skating isn't and shouldn't be everything.

 

[Jammers]

Agree 100%. If someone were to say 15 years ago that we would be or have to be happy with someone not being "horrible," making the final flight of skaters, or having 2 people come in 6th or 7th so that they have three spots so that next year someone could come in 6th or 7th, we'd be horrified. It was only recently that we expected not one but two ladies on the podium, for heaven's sake.

Part of it may be an explosion of talent in other countries--Michelle and Tara and Sasha and Sarah only had to deal with one or two Russian girls, not the infinite number there seem to be now--but there does seem to be something else wrong. Time after time the top American gets under the podium but not on it. Someone will eventually end this slump, but it's not going to be Gracie or Ashley.

We don't seem to have a top US Lady who has the talent to be a World champion and who also has a championship mentality with a killer instinct. Alissa, Mirai and Gracie had or have the talent but aren't good competitors. On the other hand the US Ladies who were or are tough competitors like Rachael Flatt were never was going to be a champion or someone like Cesario who's lacking the skating skills of the top Ladies and will never get the big scores.

 

[Matilda]

Well kids I just updated some scores! See below.

Also scoretracker update (15-13-11-9-7 for top 5 in the scoring categories). Gracie is still in the lead, but Ashley is on her heels thanks to first places categories in PCS (both SP/FS) and overall/FS/SP scores.

Gracie Gold (110)
Ashley Wagner (82)
Polina Edmunds (53)
Courtney Hicks (38)
Karen Chen (37)
Samantha Cesario (32)
Hannah Miller (26)
Mirai Nagasu (7)

See scores below:

Total scores
Ashley Wagner 186.00 (Skate Canada, 3rd) +15
Gracie Gold 182.31 (Nebelhorn Trophy, 3rd) -2
Gracie Gold 179.38 (Skate America, 3rd) -2
Polina Edmunds 176.35 (U.S. International Classic, 1st) -2
Samantha Cesario 174.58 (Skate America, 4th)
—-
Courtney Hicks: 174.51 (Skate Canada, 4th)
Courtney Hicks: 174.14 (U.S. International Classic, 2nd) -7
Hannah Miller: 170.26 (Lombardia Trophy, 2nd)
Karen Chen: 169.41 (JGP Croatia Cup, 2nd)
Angela Wang: 163.68 (Skate Canada Autumn Classic, 2nd)
Karen Chen: 160.95 (JGP Czech Skate, 3rd)
Angela Wang: 160.25 (Lombardia Trophy, 3rd)
Mirai Nagasu: 159.59 (U.S. International Classic, 5th)
Samantha Cesario 159.40 (Finlandia Trophy, 3rd)
Mirai Nagasu: 158.21 (Skate America, 6th)
Leah Keiser: 149.24 (JGP Ljubljana Cupm 3rd)
Mariah Bell 148.48 (Nebelhorn Trophy, 5th)
Amber Glenn: 148.08 (JGP Courcheval, 3rd)
Ashley Cain: 142.95 (Ondrej Nepela Trophy, 3rd)
Amber Glenn: 142.83 (JGP Tallinn Cup, 6th)
Leah Keiser: 128.63 (JGP Pokal der Blauen Schwerter, 8th)
Ashley Shin: 125.42 (U.S. International Classic, 7th)

SP scores:
Ashley Wagner 63.86 (Skate Canada) +15
Polina Edmunds 63.27 (U.S. International Classic) -2
Karen Chen 62.71 (JGP Croatia Cup) -2
Gracie Gold 61.82 (Nebelhorn Trophy) -2
Gracie Gold 60.81 (Skate America) -2
—-
Karen Chen 60.68 (JGP Czech Skate) -7
Samantha Cesario 58.96 (Skate America)
Courtney Hicks 58.90 (U.S. International Classic)
Angela Wang 56.38 (Skat Canada Autumn Classic)
Courtney Hicks 56.36 (Skate Canada)
Mirai Nagasu 55.96 (U.S. International Classic)
Angela Wang 54.88 (Lombardia Trophy)
Amber Glenn 54.71 (JGP Courcheval)
Ashley Cain 54.05 (Ondrej Nepela Trophy)
Hannah Miller 51.43 (Lombardia Trophy)
Samantha Cesario 50.79 (Finlandia Trophy)
Mariah Bell 50.72 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Amber Cain 49.66 (JGP Tallinn Cup)
Ashley Shin 49.83 (U.S. International Classic)
Leah Keiser 49.66 (JGP Pokal der Baluen Schwerter)
Mirai Nagasu 49.29 (Skate America)
Leah Keiser 47.66 (JGP Ljubljana Cup)

TES:
Karen Chen 35.94 (JGP Croatia Cup)
Polina Edmunds 35.31 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Karen Chen 34.31 (JGP Czech Skate)
Samantha Cesario 31.99 (Skate America)
Courtney Hicks 31.70 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
—-
Gracie Gold 31.68 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Ashley Wagner 31.56 (Skate Canada)
Angela Wang 30.80 (Lombardia Trophy)
Amber Glenn 30.79
Gracie Gold 30.29 (Skate America)
Angela Wang 30.34 (Skate Canada Autumn Classic)
Ashley Cain 29.29
Courtney Hicks 28.56 (Skate Canada)
Mirai Nagasu 27.90
Hannah Miller 26.75
Leah Keiser 27.66
Mariah Bell 26.27
Leah Keiser 26.20
Ashley Shin 25.47
Amber Glenn 24.72 (JGP Tallinn Cup)
Samantha Cesario 23.95 (Finlandia Trophy)
Mirai Nagasu 23.95 (Skate America)


PCS
Ashley Wagner 32.30 +15
Gracie Gold 31.66 -2
Gracie Gold 30.29 -2
Polina Edmunds 27.96 -2
Mirai Nagasu 27.56 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic) -2
—-
Courtney Hicks 27.20 -7
Angela Wang 27.04 (Skate Canada Autumn Classic)
Samantha Cesario 26.97 (Skate America)
Samantha Cesario 26.84 (Finlandia Trophy)
Karen Chen 26.77 (JGP Croatia Cup)
Karen Chen 26.37
Mirai Nagasu 26.34 (Skate America)
Ashley Cain 25.76
Hannah Miller 25.68
Amber Glenn 24.94 (JGP Tallinn Cup)
Amber Glenn 24.92
Mariah Bell 24.45
Ashley Shin 24.36
Angela Wang 24.08 (Lombardia Trophy)
Leah Keiser 23.00 (JGP Pokal der Blauen Schwerter)
Leah Keiser 22.46

FS scores:
Ashley Wagner 122.14 (Skate Canada) +15
Gracie Gold 120.49 (Nebelhorn Trophy) -2
Hannah Miller 118.83
Gracie Gold 118.57 (Skate America) +11
Courtney Hicks 118.15 (Skate Canada) +9
—-
Samantha Cesario 115.62 (Skate America) -9
Courtney Hicks 115.24 U.S. international Figure Skating Classic-7
Polina Edmunds 113.08
Mirai Nagasu 108.92 (Skate America)
Samantha Cesario 108.61 (Finlandia Trophy) -7
Angela Wang 107.30
Karen Chen 106.70
Angela Wang 105.37
Mirai Nagasu 104.03
Leah Keiser 101.58
Karen Chen 100.27
Mariah Bell 97.76
Amber Glenn 93.37
Amber Glenn 93.17
Ashley Cain 88.90
Leah Keiser 78.97 (JGP Poka der Blauen Schwerter)
Ashley Shin 75.59

TES:
Hannah Miller 64.59
Courtney Hicks 61.81 +13
Courtney Hicks 60.44 -2
Samantha Cesario 58.02 -2
Ashley Wagner 57.22 +7
—-
Mirai Nagasu 56.19 -9
Gracie Gold 56.00 (Nebelhorn Trophy) -7
Leah Keiser 55.70 -9
Gracie Gold 55.13 (Skate America)
Polina Edmunds 54.64 -7
Karen Chen 53.88
Samantha Cesario 52.53
Angela Wang 52.21 (Lombardia Trophy)
Angela Wang 50.06 (Skate Canada Autumn Classic)
Karen Chen 49.96
Mirai Nagasu 48.47
Amber Glenn 46.84
Mariah Bell 45.83
Amber Glenn 45.60
Ashley Cain 37.10
Ashley Shin 35.43
Leah Keiser 34.14 (JGP Pokal der Blauen Schwerter)


PCS
Ashley Wagner 64.92 +15
Gracie Gold 64.49 (Nebelhorn Trophy) -2
Gracie Gold 63.44 (Skate America) -2
Polina Edmunds 59.44 -2
Samantha Cesario 57.60 (Skate America)-2
—-
Mirai Nagasu 56.56 (U.S. Figure Skating International Classic)-7
Courtney Hicks 56.34 (Skate Canada)
Samantha Cesario 56.08 (Finlandia Trophy)
Angela Wang 56.64 (Skate Canada Autumn Classic)
Courtney Hicks 54.80 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Hannah Miller 54.24 (Lombardia Trophy)
Angela Wang 54.16
Mariah Bell 53.93
Karen Chen 53.82 (JGP Croatia Cup)
Ashley Cain 52.80
Mirai Nagasu 52.73 (Skate America)
Karen Chen 51.31
Amber Glenn 48.57 (JGP Tallinn Cup)
Amber Glenn 47.53
Leah Keiser 45.88
Leah Keiser 45.83 (JGP Poka der Blauen Schwerter)
Ashley Shin 42.16

It is such a shame that Hannah Miller doesn't have a GP assignment

 

[Alchamei]

Yes. But if I had to decide I'd rather watch a skater perform her program and underrotate her jumps than one who has absolutely no connection or enjoyment to her program and pops her jumps or falls.
There is no "Oh my how incredibly strong! " lady in the US right now, they all have some flaws/weaknesses.

Oh yes. That's unfortunately true. I still miss the Kwan-Cohen days. Both of them were so special. And since they retired, there wasn't any lady with ,,it'', wow factor or call it what you want.

I still rather dislike Mirai's Carmen, but I have seen her FS from Nationals 2010... And she was the closest to be something special, to have wow-factor. However, since then, I didn't like any of her programs until last Nationals. She had some of that spark again. Again. I know it's still somewhat sealed in her and when she finds it again, she will be the skater I miss and I'm trying to find in the US.

 

[lavender]

Even with the URs and little glitches, Ashley works her music and SELLS her programs to the nth degree. She got the highest PCS scores of all the ladies at Skate Canada, and that's what earned her the silver medal.

Alena Leonova was able to succeed with her SP with her great Chaplinesque characterization, but her FS was so sloppy and slapdash that it derailed her efforts to portray a vamp.

Not an Ashley advocate but she does sell a program. I don't know why they question why she's staying. Besides Polina, Gracie, Sam and Chen coming up who's consistent enough.

I like Sam but they always have something to say negative about her.

 

[Alchamei]

We don't seem to have a top US Lady who has the talent to be a World champion and who also has a championship mentality with a killer instinct. Alissa, Mirai and Gracie had or have the talent but aren't good competitors. On the other hand the US Ladies who were or are tough competitors like Rachael Flatt were never was going to be a champion or someone like Cesario who's lacking the skating skills of the top Ladies and will never get the big scores.

So true. Since 2006 US ladies wasn't even able to get on the podium at Worlds and I'm not sure if they finally can. Russians dominates every event and it's hard to beat them. Gracie lost to two non-olympic Russians at SA. And according to some people she shouldn't have been on the podium. I don't see her ending this thirst for medals. Let's see what Polina will show, but I'm not sure about her. My favourite is Mirai but I don't see her on the podium, the same about Ashley ans Samantha. It's hard to say which lady is the best.

 

[Alchamei]

Part of it may be an explosion of talent in other countries--Michelle and Tara and Sasha and Sarah only had to deal with one or two Russian girls, not the infinite number there seem to be now--but there does seem to be something else wrong. Time after time the top American gets under the podium but not on it. Someone will eventually end this slump, but it's not going to be Gracie or Ashley.

I have the same thoughts. I don't think Gracie and Ashley are going to be the champions we miss. The same about most of the US ladies.

 

[R.D.]

^ Definitely not Wagner, but Gold I wouldn't discount yet.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I have a feeling Gracie is going down the same path as Ashley. In fact I'm already seeing similarities between them. This can't be good can it? Please someone tell me I'm wrong. And it's not that I don't like either of them it's just they seem to be on level shy of the top tier girls right now.

As of now my I'm most impressed with Courtney Hicks and Karen Chen this year but my favorite is Mariah Belle. Oh if she could just jump better she would be zooming up the ranks.

 

[RABID]

I have a feeling Gracie is going down the same path as Ashley. In fact I'm already seeing similarities between them. This can't be good can it? Please someone tell me I'm wrong. And it's not that I don't like either of them it's just they seem to be on level shy of the top tier girls right now.

As of now my I'm most impressed with Courtney Hicks and Karen Chen this year but my favorite is Mariah Belle. Oh if she could just jump better she would be zooming up the ranks.

I'm not a fan but you have to give the girl a chance. I have no inside information but IF her approach to training and skating via Frank Caroll is new and different then we should be looking out for a promising "learning curve" rather than a finished product. Add to that that the season has barely begun. I say let's wait till after World's where we will then have a substantial body of work from which to judge.

 

[lcd]

Hannah Miller is slated to compete at Challenge Cup in Graz Austria next week. Steady as she goes. Talent like hers is patient and will rise to the occasion when the opportunity presents.

 

[flying camel]

Poor Hannah, will she ever make it to the GP.

 

[Mrs. P]

Poor Hannah, will she ever make it to the GP.

She will next season. Her Lombardia Trophy score should put her into good standing next season.

 

[Skater Boy]

We don't seem to have a top US Lady who has the talent to be a World champion and who also has a championship mentality with a killer instinct. Alissa, Mirai and Gracie had or have the talent but aren't good competitors. On the other hand the US Ladies who were or are tough competitors like Rachael Flatt were never was going to be a champion or someone like Cesario who's lacking the skating skills of the top Ladies and will never get the big scores.

Certainly under the right circumstances Gracie or Ashley or even Mirai or Polina could win the world title but it would be a bit of a fluke like Kimmie Meissner. Rachel could have been a Kimmie a one shot wonder who skated well once and got a world title and that was about it. Not a huge technician, not a spinner and not an artist but good enough when the stars aligned to win WGM.