State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[Icey]

A sonogram is a medical procedure, not a person.

 

[Poodlepal]

If Debi Thomas said that, I'd be a little worried, LOL! But Ashley isn't a doctor, she probably doesn't know the difference between the machine, the procedure and the picture of the baby they give the expectant parents. It's a way of saying that they are very young, obviously.

People are very, very quick to call these skaters on political correctness violations, I'm seeing. There seems to be a need for some to somehow prove that one skater or another is actually a bad person in some way (see Gracie and the Japanese sandwich incident last year). Do these two come off as not being very nice in some regard, or is that just life in the fishbowl?

 

[[email protected]]

oh, I get it now : , they are like fetus in an ultrasound, hahaha. So, it is a compliment, everyone feels good when someone says they look young.

In fact it is not as it goes together with her previous "I will show these babies" and some local residents' "jumping beans", "russian robots" and continuous discussions on how the growth spurt will make these prodigies (predominantly russian) irrelevant. I will hardly consider it as a compliment taking into the account what these "babies" have to go through between 5 and 15 not having normal childhood and putting everything at stake (Lipnitskaia's case). Anyway, ladies' FS has become very competitive and US needs either the Russian system where hundreds of girls fight fiercely for the place at the top and some of them shoot. It is the system and the result is that though in terms of talent IMO only Yulia is at the same level as Yuna or Mao there are multiple very good very different skaters. Alternatively one should sit and wait for a new Michelle. As for the current field, US #1 Gracie already lost during this season to Lena, Liza, and Alena. The result would be the same at SC (Anna's 191 vs Gracie's 179). And then there are also top 2. This is the state of the US ladies now. Frankly speaking, the only two that I liked and see good potential are Samantha and Karen Chen. But I understand Samantha has some technical issues to overcome and Karen needs to get well - she was one of my favorites during the JGP and I would love to trade her a spot at JGPF with some of the Japanies ladies none of whom was inspiring IMO.

 

[apgold]

But I understand Samantha has some technical issues to overcome and Karen needs to get well - she was one of my favorites during the JGP and I would love to trade her a spot at JGPF with some of the Japanese ladies none of whom was inspiring IMO.

Karen and Samantha are two of my current favorites as well, both who have been challenged by injuries and illness. As sick of "Carmen" as I am, hers is one of the best in recent memory and I like that she's adding more difficult content. She is also just over her bout with mono, so I hope she only going to get stronger as the season progresses and have better scores (would love her to break 180).

Karen is both athletic and artistic and I think she could be the next big thing in the senior ladies circuit.

I've previously mentioned Mariah Bell and Hannah Miller as two of my favorites who are just starting their senior careers. I think Hannah in particular has the technical chops and the artistry.

 

[LRK]

I was really impressed by her performances there. Last season she was almost unwatchable for me. This time though she kept my attention during both of her performances and by the end of the FS I was actually rooting for her. Now I'm looking forward to her next GP and I hope she does great at TEB. She might become my new favorite underdog amongst US ladies (Sorry, Mirai).

That means she must really have improved since last year - that's so heartening to hear! (It's nice when skaters improve.) Hopefully she will continue on that path and get even better.

 

[NYscorp6]

That means she must really have improved since last year - that's so heartening to hear! (It's nice when skaters improve.) Hopefully she will continue on that path and get even better.

Her score was decent, but the jumps seem to be going backward, no lutz, two foot landings on combinations, no improvement there. Her spins and foot work appear to be improved somewhat though at Skate Canada, she didn't leave points on the table.

 

[apgold]

Are you talking about Courtney or Ashley?

The quote refers to Courtney.

 

[NYscorp6]

Are you talking about Courtney or Ashley?

The quote refers to Courtney.

Oops, sorry I misunderstood. I agree about Courtney's improvements.

 

[LiamForeman]

I can't say I've ever heard "sonogram" used as an insult, as "old lady" can be, so I don't really see the equivalence. As Mrs. P said, it's a reference to the fact that some of her competitors hadn't even been born yet when Ashley began skating.

No it is a reference to their age, and how young they are. I have no idea why some people always have to be offended. Grow a sense of humor. I thought the comment was kind of witty myself. In a way it was being self-deprecating.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

No it is a reference to their age, and how young they are. I have no idea why some people always have to be offended. Grow a sense of humor. I thought the comment was kind of witty myself. In a way it was being self-deprecating.

I never found it offensive myself but I can't really speak for everyone and I think she could have rather simply chosen a better way to say it like" its tough competing against all these talented young girls. " Sometimes the best way to seem respectful is to be clear and concise. That said..Ashley has every right to say what she wants and everyone should also feel free to interpret it however they see fit but TBH I like Ashley's loose cannon attitude. I just don't think she meant any harm but she should be and likely is aware of the potential consequences when cracking jokes like this. Not everyone has the same humor.

I think some of the backlash which isn't really all that heavy IMO may be just spillover effect. It takes a lot of bricks to make a house. :think:

Stitchmonkey takes the cake for me in suggesting they could call her a babysitter.

 

[Tutto]

I quite liked Courtney's lp but could anyone explain to me her dress? Anyone who is even vaguely familar with the book would know that Anna Karenina associated with black colour - her black hair, she chose black for her clothes almost invariably and several references made to that in the book, not mentioning the tragic end itself hardly invites the white for interpreting Anna... ??? Also I think black could be more ehh flattering on Courtney

 

[LRK]

About Ashley... I've not actually seen the original sonogram quote, so haven't seen it in context... but I honestly don't know why it is necessary to go over skaters' remarks with a fine tooth comb? If people found something to remark upon, fine do so - and then move on. Do we really need to debate it for pages on end? How many days ago was this quote anyway? It's not like we are debating the nuances of a Shakespearean quote or something? This just... puzzles me. :scratch:

 

[[email protected]]

About Ashley... I've not actually seen the original sonogram quote, so haven't seen it in context... but I honestly don't know why it is necessary to go over skaters' remarks with a fine tooth comb? If people found something to remark upon, fine do so - and then move on. Do we really need to debate it for pages on end? How many days ago was this quote anyway? It's not like we are debating the nuances of a Shakespearean quote or something? This just... puzzles me. :scratch:

I think there is a meaning to this discussion. Ashley's quote as it is listed on multiple sites is: "Well, I'm going up against sonograms". Of course, it is rude and dismissive - I see no fun in it. But the true meaning, I guess, is her desire to explain her inabilty to win by positioning herself as an athlete who is forced to compete in a different sport than traditional FS and who has intrinsic disadvantges doing it. The new sport is "children figure skating" or as she said "babies" or "sonograms". The parallels could be found in gymnastics - you cannot compare Larisa Latynina or Lyudmila Turischeva of the 50s and 60s with modern small champions. She may be just bitter - she may be right to some extent. For me the answer will be clear based on whether Yulia, Elena, Anna, Adelina? Satoko make it to Korea in their prime form to compete for gold. If yes, her words are just the loser talk - if no, she may be right. But I think no one then will remember this small situation.

 

[ice coverage]

Okay, I'm glad I wasn't the only one that laughed. I think the sonogram joke is more that they weren't born yet when Ashley started skating, not that she thinks they're sonograms NOW.

I think it is sorta along the lines of the saying "before you were a glimmer in your parents' eyes" type thing. or "since you were wearing diapers" both are expression to indicate "I am older than you" she just split the difference between the two.

It could also be a way to go one step younger than "babies". We have been saying "babies" for years. So now she went pre-natal to get even younger than "babies"

No it is a reference to their age, and how young they are. ... I thought the comment was kind of witty myself. In a way it was being self-deprecating.

.... Ashley's quote as it is listed on multiple sites is: "Well, I'm going up against sonograms". Of course, it is rude and dismissive - I see no fun in it.

Why would "sonogram" be rude and dismissive?? A sonogram is most often a source of great joy, at least in the U.S. The image of a child in the womb is a beautiful and awe-inspiring thrill for the expecting parents and grandparents, etc.
Is the same not true in Russia? :think:

Agree with LiamForeman that Wagner was poking fun at herself, if anyone. It was an original way for her to "own" the reality that she is significantly older than a slew of other top contenders in her discipline. :agree: Agree with Mrs. P and Stitch as well.

 

[[email protected]]

If I were Anna Pogorilaya who was working hard for many years, who had to overcome injuries etc., I would be offended when named "a child in the womb". But as I said in the rest of the post the main point is not the label "sonogram" per se but whether she thinks if competing with 15 year olds is unfair to her.

P.S. in Russia we never use "sonogram" referring to people. But we use "milk-sucker" and it is very dismissive when talking to those who are younger than you (although what brings more joy than a milk sucking baby?).

 

[Ophelia]

I think too many people are getting their panties twisted over nothing.

Maybe this is why Gracie Gold maintains a boring, PC image-less people jumping on her every quote and dissecting it.

 

[Icey]

I quite liked Courtney's lp but could anyone explain to me her dress? Anyone who is even vaguely familar with the book would know that Anna Karenina associated with black colour - her black hair, she chose black for her clothes almost invariably and several references made to that in the book, not mentioning the tragic end itself hardly invites the white for interpreting Anna... ??? Also I think black could be more ehh flattering on Courtney

Vivien Leigh played Anna in an earlier film version of Anna Karenina . In some of the scenes in that film she wore white. The sleeve structure of Courtney's costume is similar to that of the ball gown Vivien (Anna) wore at the big ball, but, true, that dress was black. Vivien's portrayal of Anna is my favorite.

 

[ice coverage]

Polina Edmunds is blogging re Cup of China for icenetwork.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/11/04/100494286/shanghai-ice-edmunds-reports-from-cup-of-china (blog text)
http://web.icenetwork.com/photos/100605942 (accompanying photo gallery)​

Among her bits of adventure so far was enjoying exotic "Yang" dumplings, thanks to Christina Gao's recommendation.

ETA, dumpling-related photos from @polinaedmunds, including one with Gao:

http://instagram.com/p/vFLyWMEjfT/
http://instagram.com/p/vE_asOEjdD/​

Edmunds is rooming with Jessica Calalang.

If I were Anna Pogorilaya who was working hard for many years, who had to overcome injuries etc., I would be offended when named "a child in the womb". But as I said in the rest of the post the main point is not the label "sonogram" per se but whether she thinks if competing with 15 year olds is unfair to her.

P.S. in Russia we never use "sonogram" referring to people. But we use "milk-sucker" and it is very dismissive when talking to those who are younger than you (although what brings more joy than a milk sucking baby?).

When has Wagner used the word "unfair" when discussing the fact that some of her competitors are much younger??
Saying that it is not easy to face younger skaters is very different from making a serious complaint of unfairness.
(It seems within the realm of possibility to me that Wagner might have joked in an obviously facetious way about " unfairness ," but that also would be very different from making a serious complaint.)

Wagner herself once was a sonogram and a child in the womb, and once was a teen working very hard to succeed against skaters older than herself -- and to overcome hardships and disappointments along the way.
Still makes no sense to me to interpret her comment as offensive to those currently in their teens; if her usage of "sonogram" were mean-spirited, it would be equally rude and dismissive to her younger self.

 

[[email protected]]

I never said "used" I speculated whether she "thinks" it is unfair - we have the words spoken like "babies" and "sonograms" and we speculate whether it is a funny joke or frustration. And we will never know for sure. But anyway, I agree that the issue is minor both for the FS world and GS forum. For me the big issue is that there is "State of US ladies" thread and no "State of Russian ladies" thread which I assume would be no less important and interesting. May be I am going to start one and keep it afloat.

And I wish Polina Edmunds good skate in China. In fact, she reminds me of Anna P. Could be interesting to see them compete. Although it can happen only at GPF or if some of the top 3 Russians bomb big time.

There was a funny moment when I discussed Sochi with some of my friends who are not FS fans one lady said: "I liked only a scandinavian blonde who performed to Grieg". Well, she somehow combined Grieg and blonde to come up with "scandinavian" but of course it was about Polina.

 

[Mrs. P]

For me the big issue is that there is "State of US ladies" thread and no "State of Russian ladies" thread which I assume would be no less important and interesting. May be I am going to start one and keep it afloat.

This thread exists because someone started one (R.D.) and others have contributed it and keep it going. There seems to be plenty of Russian skating fans here -- I'm sure a "State of Russian Ladies" thread would be welcomed and do well.