Blunt, yet true at the same time.
I will not be so quick to give up on Gold, given how young she is and how much time she still has to figure things out. But consistency is the exception, not the rule.
State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season
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Blunt, yet true at the same time.
I will not be so quick to give up on Gold, given how young she is and how much time she still has to figure things out. But consistency is the exception, not the rule.
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- Dec 21, 2011
I do find it troubling that she has not won ONE gold medal on the senior international level (other than a team gold at the WTT), not even at a senior B competition. While I have not written her off yet, I do find it demoralizing and ridiculous that she couldn't win gold at the U.S. classic. I'm sorry, but in terms of people who should have been able to beat her, both this year and last year, there were none. As far as senior competitions go, it was pretty much scraping toward the bottom of the barrel (not saying the skaters there were all bottom of the barrel, but none were above the middle and you'd be hard pressed to find an 'easier' field in senior competition).
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- Feb 10, 2014
You know, I'm always really confused when people are unhappy with skaters who "only" win silver or bronze medals. Please understand that I'm not trying to attack, but I, personally, I think it's great that Ashley, Max & Jason have already won silver medals on the Grand Prix this year, and that Gracie has won bronze. I guess it seems like many people think those medals arent worth much, and I just don't get why.
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- Dec 29, 2013
Well...maybe it is because other than GPF....Silver and Bronze don't usually translate into World Medals. Not saying it isn't possible to sneak in there but the WC is usually a battle between the people who have been winning competitions. I think it would be nice to see a WC medal here stateside.
I too think Gracie needs to win a competition in order to be taken seriously as the US #1. 4CC's anyone?
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- Feb 10, 2014
Call me naive, but why is it important for Gracie to be taken seriously as the US number 1? I mean, what does that imply?
U.S. #1 indicates you're the best of what the country has to offer. She showed that by being the highest finisher at Olympics, but then slipped a bit at WC when she finished behind Ashley and Polina in the FS (though beating both overall). And so far on the GP, Ashley has already scored higher than her and she has lost to lower-ranking Russian skaters at Nebelhorn.
I guess the term is "not pulling your weight."
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- Dec 29, 2013
Well, if we want to discuss the status of the US ladies...it would be beneficial for the #1 to win an international event. I mean all the discussion on SB scores seem relevant so why not final placements?
Anyway..I also said its not impossible to sneak in there for a WC medal and I was simply trying to answer a question that you posed from my perspective
FWIW..Mariah Bell is one of my favorite skaters and she isn't winning or even medaling so these people do mean something to some people. :yes:
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- Feb 10, 2014
So...she's losing status for the US in figure skating by not beating lower ranked skaters? And for example b/c Jason fell, was 35 points behind Machida, and was behind Nam in the free skate, it makes the US look weaker? Don't mean to derail thread by talking about men!
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- Feb 10, 2014
Well, if we want to discuss the status of the US ladies...it would be beneficial for the #1 to win an international event. I mean all the discussion on SB scores seem relevant so why not final placements?
Anyway..I also said its not impossible to sneak in there for a WC medal and I was simply trying to answer a question that you posed from my perspective
I know you were, and I know I'm still sounding hopelessly perplexed! Got to get into my car now, so will check back into this thread later.
Jason has at least won an international competition (Nebelhorn Trophy), which Gracie has yet to do in 2.5 years on the international circuit. Jason arguably is probably outperforming considering he doesn't have a quad.
Gracie on the other hand has the technical goods and should be able to win competitions.
Probably too early in the season to say Gold has not delivered, because so much can change.
But yes, so far she has not fared any better than the other post-2006 US champs. Part of the problem I think is how much hype she has received. Some have made her out to be the best thing since sliced bread, and are now mercilessly coming down on her since she has not lived up to their lofty expectations. I can see the same thing happening to Edmunds in a year...hype pouring in now, when she fails to live up to that, she will be written off just as quickly.
But yes, so far she has not fared any better than the other post-2006 US champs. Part of the problem I think is how much hype she has received. Some have made her out to be the best thing since sliced bread, and are now mercilessly coming down on her since she has not lived up to their lofty expectations. I can see the same thing happening to Edmunds in a year...hype pouring in now, when she fails to live up to that, she will be written off just as quickly.
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- Dec 29, 2013
That is what I was getting at. There probably should be some expectations put on the top girls. With Gracie's abilities she should at least have won something even if only a senior B event. That said....I think the prize this year is WC's and after a grueling season I expect a bit of cooling from the surging youngsters from last year and it may not be until December or January when they start firing on all cylinders.
I expect Polina to come out firing like a college Freshman gunning to ace her AP tests! US nationals will be fun to watch.
That is what I was getting at. There probably should be some expectations put on the top girls. With Gracie's abilities she should at least have won something even if only a senior B event. That said....I think the prize this year is WC's and after a grueling season I expect a bit of cooling from the surging youngsters from last year and it may to be until December or January when they start firing on all cylinders.
I expect Polina to come out firing and US nationals will be fun to watch.
But what if she doesn't?
See, this is what I'm talking about.
However, I do agree that someone of Gold's stature should, at the end of the day, have at least a few wins. Remember though, Cohen never won a major international event but in retrospect, today's US girls would kill to have her resume. And Cohen was given so much grief during her career for having not won anything big. I would say Gold is capable of winning a world medal and should be able to do so at some point in her career, health permitting.
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- Dec 21, 2011
To be clear I never hyped her and though I'm not a hater I don't love her either. Objectively I find it offputting or disappointing or whatever the word may be that she can't win anything, because, as Mrs. P said, she DOES have the technical goods to do so. For me it's less about the US #1 and being taken seriously (though I do think winning something, anything would help her be taken seriously) and more just unbelievable that she seems literally unable to put together 2 decent programs in competition (I don't even say clean, because there have been some comps she'd have won with just one or two errors, but she made more than that).
Even Sasha Cohen, the most notoriously inconsistent ladies skater (not actually the most inconsistent, but definitely the most notorious for being so) won 7 golds in international competition.
Also, it's not like Gracie is just starting out. She's 19 years old, getting into 'middle years' for the average senior skater even now and has been on the senior circuit for almost 3 years.
I would NOT be griping about this if I thought she was incapable of winning a gold medal. Further, I have LOTS of favorites who couldn't even medal if their life depended on it at this point, so it's not about if I like her or not. It's just enormously frustrating because she is consistently underpreforming, for whatever reason.
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- Nov 16, 2005
The US program is definitely in a sad state. Its like we are still trapped in 6.0. Everything needs work. We have so many technical issues, the choreography needs work, the music selection needs an overhaul. These are serious issues in skating and they need to be addressed. The Russians are just way ahead of us. I am very discouraged. I know the season just started, but it looks like the Russians are going to win every GP competition, the GP final and will probably sweep the World podium. I'm not saying the Russians don't deserve it. They are great, but we need to wake up. Maybe the US need to get a group of juniors together and nurture them. They need to make sure they get good technical training and an understanding of music and choreography. It could not hurt to try. They need to try something. What is the purpose of Champs Camp again? :disapp:
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- Dec 21, 2011
Cohen did win the GPF one year, though whether that counts as a major international event or not is perhaps in the eye of the beholder. I would call it one.
There. That's it. Technical issues. Precisely what keeps holding us back. Forget choreo, music and all that other stuff. That doesn't matter nearly as much as having solid technical skills and the ability to deliver under pressure. The current US crop seems to have either one or the other (or neither), but not both. And that's what the world's medalists of the past decade have all had, and why the US has fallen short every time. I mean, we finally are sending 3 women again to worlds, so things are better than they were just a couple of years ago, but US ladies still find themselves behind the 8-ball technically. Then again, maybe the best talent is just elsewhere in the world these days and we've had our run...What's it going to take to regain that edge?
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- Apr 2, 2009
I don't get it either. I'm American though and it seems to be the U.S. mentality that if it ain't gold it ain't good enough.
I would too. I feel the same about 4CCs.
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- Jul 31, 2014
Actually Max won bronze, but not big deal. Your point is still valid.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I would also call it that. It's essentially a mini-worlds with the top 6 skaters at that point in the season. Not to mention, she has an OSM, which (even if a bit of a gift) is still the last US (individual) ladies medal.
It's really hard to have expectations on the US skaters with such a crazy Russian field that threatens to sweep every podium.
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