State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[Kittosuni]

I hope Polina pulls herself up because she has so much potential. A clean skate would have easily put her into 3rd.

I think some of things may have worked against her psychologically...
1. She was essentially skating in what is normally her sleeping time. (The Russian girls were skating in essentially their afternoon period)
2. There weren't many expectations on her last year, but now people except good results. Gracie and Ashley have each placed and she would need to place too to compete with them and have an outside shot at the final.
3. She's skating with Lipnitskaia...
4. But in the first group where she can expect a lower score ceiling and see others crash before she gets onto the ice...
5. Maybe the blogging was a distraction... I think trying to write for public consumption while prepping for a competition may put you in an non-optimal mindset.
etc, etc...

She's not going to make the Grand Prix final, so she should relax and enjoy getting the experience in. She'll have new platforms to prove herself soon... platforms that probably won't be available for 1 or 2 of the top 5 Russian ladies.

Or maybe, she ate to much dumplings she had diarrhea, or got excited when she heard beyonce has a new album coming and she lost all her focus or maybe got confused why Pitkeev likes all her instagram posts even when he is with Serafima?? Or maybe...

 

[TMC]

Change of edge on a Biellmann. Phenomenal. Surprised she didn't win bronze.

That was indeed an incredibly cool move!

 

[LiamForeman]

Change of edge on a Biellmann. Phenomenal. Surprised she didn't win bronze.

I was really impressed with her program. Loved the twizzles. She has such a calm presence on the ice. She's heading in the right direction.

 

[LuisRollerArg]

sorry for you, Ashley haters!!! She still is so far the best US lady in this moment!! Go Ashley!! you can fight in france!!

 

[minze]

sorry for you, Ashley haters!!! She still is so far the best US lady in this moment!! Go Ashley!! you can fight in france!!

I don't think pointing out her deficiencies as a skater is hating. Fact: Gracie has better tecqnique(she can do a true lutz and whe she is on she can rotate her jumps) Polina has more difficult 2 3-3.


However, Yes Ashley is the best competitor we have. She sells her programs well. Never count her out
But our best hope for world podium is Gracie (not a fan but is the truth)

 

[noidont]

What pollution...Shanghai isn't Beijing. Weather hasn't been great for the past couple days but not because of pollution. The arena is in the middle of nowhere with almost no traffic or factory around it. I will say the air is as clean or dirty as any big city anywhere.

Polina simply had a bad day. Nothing weird. Though I wouldn't say she is at the same level as the top three here, basics-wise. Her step sequence was chaotic and draggy in both programs, and that's what I remember from her programs. Gracie and Ashley should be way ahead of her in PCS.

 

[Tavi...]

I don't think pointing out her deficiencies as a skater is hating. Fact: Gracie has better tecqnique(she can do a true lutz and whe she is on she can rotate her jumps) Polina has more difficult 2 3-3.


However, Yes Ashley is the best competitor we have. She sells her programs well. Never count her out
But our best hope for world podium is Gracie (not a fan but is the truth)

To be fair, if Gracie can't execute her more technically difficult program, she will not be a contender, while Ashley has shown that she can medal even with lower technical content. This may not continue at worlds, where there are likely to me more strong contenders, of course.

As to pointing out Ashley's technical deficiencies, yes that is fair, but most people who do so a) fail to acknowledge that she herself is aware of them and has said in at least one interview that she is working on them; and b) usually take it far beyond pointing out her technical issues and say stuff like she should quit, she's past her prime, her moment has passed, she only became US #1 because she had weak competition, she will never fix her technical issues, etc. To me, those kinds of statements go beyond "fair" criticism because they're nothing more than someone's opinion, but they are invariably presented as "fact. " Similarly, the failure to acknowledge that she is aware of and working on problems-and the tremendous improvement she made from the JO to SC- leaves out an important piece of the puzzle, and is one reason I think TSL's comments about her have been less than good journalism.

 

[minze]

To be fair, if Gracie can't execute her more technically difficult program, she will not be a contender, while Ashley has shown that she can medal even with lower technical content. This may not continue at worlds, where there are likely to me more strong contenders, of course.

As to pointing out Ashley's technical deficiencies, yes that is fair, but most people who do so a) fail to acknowledge that she herself is aware of them and has said in at least one interview that she is working on them; and b) usually take it far beyond pointing out her technical issues and say stuff like she should quit, she's past her prime, her moment has passed, she only became US #1 because she had weak competition, she will never fix her technical issues, etc. To me, those kinds of statements go beyond "fair" criticism because they're nothing more than someone's opinion, but they are invariably presented as "fact. " Similarly, the failure to acknowledge that she is aware of and working on problems-and the tremendous improvement she made from the JO to SC- leaves out an important piece of the puzzle, and is one reason I think TSL's comments about her have been less than good journalism.

And that is why Ashley is so interesting in one end she is so self aware often self deprecating which is funny and refreshing.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Similarly, the failure to acknowledge that she is aware of and working on problems-and the tremendous improvement she made from the JO to SC- leaves out an important piece of the puzzle, and is one reason I think TSL's comments about her have been less than good journalism.

Being aware of and working on a problem doesn't make a skater immune from criticism for it. Pretty much every top level skater is aware of their weaknesses and is working on them.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Since the mid 50s when Tenley Albright won the first World Title for the U.S. the American ladies have always challenged for gold and the podium. The longest streak of no medals at Worlds since the 30s, its like the dark ages

Seriously, what exactly has changed in the U.S. that the last two generations of American women crumble under the pressure

 

[R.D.]

The scoring system change is the big thing. Also, wasn't it around 2006 that the rules for URs started to be enforced? It's amazing how many US women have struggled with getting full credit on jumps since then...

And the ones who do so can't deliver when it counts most...

 

[NAOTMAA]

But I don't think US women have been cheating URs for decades have they :scratch:

It is amazing how badly URs have been a problem. I don't see any of the other power houses suffering on such a mass level. Have the training methods in the US changed or something

All of them seem to be suffering from the same nerves like its in the water or something. Perhaps USFSA should set up some metal toughness class or something

 

[tulosai]

But I don't think US women have been cheating URs for decades have they :scratch:

It is amazing how badly URs have been a problem. I don't see any of the other power houses suffering on such a mass level. Have the training methods in the US changed or something

All of them seem to be suffering from the same nerves like its in the water or something. Perhaps USFSA should set up some metal toughness class or something

Many of our medalists of the past would not get credit for their jumps under this system. Sarah Hughes Oly Gold winning program is the most obvious example that jumps to mind but there are others.

It's not like no US woman ever URed before. It used to not be a problem to UR. In fact, it ued to be the norm to UR I'd argue. It wasn't punished and most people did it.

 

[Poodlepal]

I'm thinking it's only a run of bad luck
Kimmie: disintegrated somewhere along the line for reasons never revealed to the public (some type of "personal" problems) 2007

2008-The worst year. Everyone was too young to go.

2009-Rachael. Probably the wrong body type, chubby by FS standards. I liked her a lot, she deserves more respect than she gets, I think, but she's no ballerina.

2010-Mirai--Seems to have personal problems as well as technical issues. The saddest case, she was almost guaranteed a medal in 2010, all she had to do was not fall apart in the long program. Nerves? Problems with parents and coaches? I don't know.

2011-Alissa. At least she won the GPF--I don't know what her problems were, how she could be so good then so bad. Nerves?

2012--Ashley--took a long time to peak, now she's skating against ultrasounds.

2013--Gracie--I don't know what her problem is. If she doesn't make the GPF or get a bronze at Worlds, I'm writing her off until further notice. She's not the phenom she was made out to be, that's for sure.

So we have three or possibly four people that seem to have some sort of issue other than just technical issues with their blades or whatever. The two that were good competitors were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps.

 

[Tavi...]

Oops - this was in reply to Driving Miss Daisy 's post #749:

Well, I didn't say that it made her immune from criticism. I did say that TSL failed to acknowledge a) the tremendous improvement she had made since the JO, and b) her post SC comments,which were made before the TSL recap was posted, and in which she stated specifically that she knew she had to up her tech content and that she was working on the lutz & the 3-3. Instead, they basically said we love Ashley but she's not good enough, her time has passed, I can't believe she came back. Their theme for the last two recaps seems to have been, we're mourning the state of US figure skating; none of our men or ladies are competitive, and they never will be. They have been especially critical and dismissive of any one who is supposed to contend- eg Jason & Gracie - and people they feel should retire - eg Jeremy & Ashley. Of course they're entitled to their opinions. But I would respect them more if they acknowledged information that challenges their theory, rather than being so reductive.

 

[flying camel]

I think the U.S. problem is more technical then mental. The USFSA knows it too. Didn't they hire Frank to be some type of technical expert. But Frank is one person. They need to hire a team of technical experts to visit clubs and hold clinics. What happen to the Scotvolds? Weren't they technical experts? What about Linda Leaver. We need to pull together are resources and figure this thing out or we are going to get left behind.:disapp:

 

[Sandpiper]

I don't see why COP and UR should be blamed. American women weren't the only ones who UR'ed in the past.

But somewhere down the line, seems like US singles has fallen behind on the technical side. The most successful lady in the GP circuit so far is someone who didn't attempt a lutz, got a bizarre ! on her flip, and got UR calls on her loop. The young rising star among the US men is someone who hadn't yet attempted a quad and doesn't have a stable axel. I love both Ashley and Jason, but anyone can see why they aren't top of the world.

Even under 6.0, someone who two-foots their 3-3 (Ashley) or has consistency problems (Gracie, Mirai) would not be in good standing. If we judged the Worlds performances from 2007-2014 with 6.0, in which ones would the US have a medal? Not all of them, I'm guessing.

 

[MK's Winter]

Bring back figures. If not in competition they should be doing them with coaches. It wouldn't solve all but I think it would help. Kristi, Nancy, Tonya all came up on the figures era. Mental game aside, when they hit jumps they were pretty damn good, as far as edges, take off, being done properly. Technique is everything.

 

[FlattFan]

Polina is so slow on high def. Everything is generic and boring. She's even worse than Mirai after a couple of falls.

The us ladies are a sad bunch.

 

[noidont]

US ladies is looking bad. There isn't even a junior breaking out this season. Amber Glenn and Karen Chen aren't going to win 3 spots back this year at junior worlds. There are three Russians, at least two Japanese and Turzynbaeva clear ahead of them.