Jason Brown | Page 110 | Golden Skate

Jason Brown

The more I think about the death of his agent the more I think of ways for it to have messed with his skate.

It is not just emotions, but it would be hard for any person not to also wonder about their future as well. I frankly think it would be very normal for a person to think internally "well what do I do now, how do i proceed?" but still obviously feel like they would be a heel for asking those questions. He is not just dealing with the death of a friend, but he is a 19 year old who has to perform/compete while wondering what comes next from a professional/career stand point. These are some pretty big question marks to deal with on top of pain. (If this sounds cold, well, I apologize but assure it is not intended that way. I have often joked that i deal with stress by finding other things to stress about. So for me, I would likely have a lot of these type of practical logistical thoughts. Sometimes enumerating the issues is easier than dealing with pain.) You generally don't ask these type of questions right after a death, but that does not mean they do not exist and don't still affect a person. Shep's death could end up having a significant impact on Jason's long term career. Wondering what happens now is not unreasonable.

I keep wondering how much he has been involved with . . . stuff leading up to this. Does he (or his staff) vet Jason's tweets before he sends them out? Did he have input over what is sent out? Was Jason & co left to try to figure out how to keep doing the same without the support. Just something else to second guess about.

How much input did he have possibly over decisions made for this season? Is Jason now in a "what next" limbo as he and co try to figure out how to carry out plans that Shep may have made that he is no long there to oversee. Do you keep doing what Shep thought was best without him? Do you follow your own gut and maybe make changes? If Shep had started some long term plans, how do you deal with that. You can't always proceed as planned when the architect is gone.

Did Jason sign with Shep because he wanted/needed an agent, or because he wanted Shep? What happens once he has already had an agent, how easily can he go back to no having one? The Skating Lesson sent out a tweet that I hope was a joke talking about how soon other ambulance chaser agents may be pouncing on him. I would not be surprised at all if at least one person stuck their nose into the situation trying to further their own agenda.

The whole situation is just ugly and sad. Even worse how people are acting like it is the end of the world. Geez it was one competition. He struggled in the SP, dealt with it, addressed it, and set a personal best in the long. I am not sure I am seeing the problem here. I am seeing a skater who at their worst is still pretty damn good. It really is a bit sad that his personal best is being over looked by final placement which was still the highest USA male at the competition.

Ohh well, plenty of skaters have bad luck, this is likely better than an injury, but it still sucks that he has to deal with it.
 
Sad for Jason as he mourns for Shep Goldberg. I'm sure that Jason's primary reaction is grief that he lost someone close to him.

On a secondary level, I wonder whether Jason's head still is spinning at how far he has come in a short period of time, and whether the loss of Goldberg as a symbol of Jason's "arrival" also is subconsciously weighing on him.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not diminishing that Jason cherished Goldberg the human being.
But it was only about a year and a half ago that Jason was too shy to say hello to Michelle Kwan at the East West Arena. Only six months later or so, MK was the one gushing to Arsenio Hall about how great his friend Jason had skated at Boston Nats. And then a few short months later, Jason started working with MK's own super-agent. An incredible -- and incredibly rapid -- transformation.

StitchMonkey said:
... I keep wondering how much he has been involved with . . . stuff leading up to this. Does he (or his staff) vet Jason's tweets before he sends them out? Did he have input over what is sent out? ...

Did Jason sign with Shep because he wanted/needed an agent, or because he wanted Shep? ...
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Just my guess, but I highly doubt that Goldberg vetted every single tweet that Jason sent.
Jason had been tweeting for many months before joining forces with Goldberg, who easily could have looked back and seen no danger of anything offensive or inappropriate. And surely Goldberg understood that Jason's authenticity and spontaneity are major parts of his charm.
(Doesn't mean that they did not plan a strategic tweet together once in a while.)

Jason's mother no doubt would be very savvy about agents, but Goldberg obviously had very few clients, and could be extremely selective as to whom he would take on. It is possible that he was the one who initiated contact with Jason.

Mrs. P said:
http://instagram.com/p/vfeF-IzXBH/

jasonbskates
Overwhelmed by the outpouring of thoughtfulness and generosity that the fans showed here in Moscow! Thank you everyone for all the love...❤️🇷🇺❤️

Aw, that's nice. The nesting Russian dolls are neat!
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:agree: Love the matryoshkas. :)

TMC said:
:laugh: Great photo! I think that's Jeremy Ten though :)
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:agree: Jeremy Ten definitely was the photo-bomber.
 
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Alba said:
OMG those matryoshka are adorable. :)

This is such a cute picture of Jason from the Gala: http://dolceflute.gallery.ru/watch?ph=PG2-fLEaW :)

There are more: http://dolceflute.gallery.ru/watch?a=PG2-mwSc
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Thanks for the pics!

My fave is this one of Jason and Kori. Kori looks gorgeous and it's nice to see that both of them are enjoying themselves after an emotionally draining week: http://dolceflute.gallery.ru/watch?ph=PG2-fLEaY

StitchMonkey said:
The whole situation is just ugly and sad. Even worse how people are acting like it is the end of the world. Geez it was one competition. He struggled in the SP, dealt with it, addressed it, and set a personal best in the long. I am not sure I am seeing the problem here. I am seeing a skater who at their worst is still pretty damn good. It really is a bit sad that his personal best is being over looked by final placement which was still the highest USA male at the competition.

Ohh well, plenty of skaters have bad luck, this is likely better than an injury, but it still sucks that he has to deal with it.
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I think that I feel there's a bit of "speaking on two sides of the tongue" in conversation regarding Jason. On one hand, people will note that Jason is not competitive due to the lack of a the quad, but yet because he is generally consistent, he is still part of the conversation, especially for GP medals, as fare as being competitive.

Most people had expected Jason to podium here because 1.) even with a low BV, he does pretty cleanish programs 2.) he had received silver at SA and 3.) the men's field is unpredictable.

The best way is to say that when Jason bombed in the SP here, it was a major bomb for him. He just hasn't made that sort of error in a long time in the SP. And this time his spins weren't as sparkling as they usually were, so hence the lowest TES for him since 2013 Junior Worlds SP.

And quite frankly he has underperformed, TES wise, in the SP. He has failed to break 40 TES in either of his GP competitions. Last year, he managed TES above 43+ in SIX short clean programs in a row, from Nebelhorn 2013 to Nebelhorn 2014 (including 2 GP, Nationals and the Olympics). So it's a bit jarring to see him make errors in the SP. And it's even more jarring when that sort of error happens when so many of his competitors actually hit their quads. And even then their TES of several of them was not out of Jason's reach (Vornov and Fernandez being notable exceptions).

So hence the meme of that the consistency is gone, and that his (and Kori's) long-held strategy is a failure and that they need to get the quad stat (even if it's not ready), when really Jason's worst case scenario happened--he didn't skate clean and his competitors actually were some what clean.
 
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golden411 said:
Just my guess, but I highly doubt that Goldberg vetted every single tweet that Jason sent.
Jason had been tweeting for many months before joining forces with Goldberg, who easily could have looked back and seen no danger of anything offensive or inappropriate. And surely Goldberg understood that Jason's authenticity and spontaneity are major parts of his charm.
(Doesn't mean that they did not plan a strategic tweet together once in a while.)
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The tweet was just an example. Sometimes those little things can really be what makes a death hit home. Even if Shep just unofficially commented privately on his tweets, that absence is likely to be noticed. We don't know how many little things Shep was involved with, so we don't know how many little things are there to remind Jason. How about a tie for instance, I could see an agent saying "wear that tie" and suddenly that tie has a very very different meaning. While you are right that Jason did fine on his own before (though something that are can be seen as offensive can come from an honest mistake, which is a role an agent can try to help avoid), and his mom is a great asset for him, we just don't know how involved Shep may or may not have been in decisions that have been made. We don't know how many different ways he has to adjust to the absence.

I do kinda wonder who sought out whom in the relationship. I kinda think it was Shep that started it and Jason signed with Shep because it was Shep. He may not have been very interested in having a prominent agent but when someone like that comes knocking, you change you plans. So now he set the precedent of having an agent, and now people will be looking for his next agent, when he may not really even want to be looking himself. On the other hand his mom is likely more qualified to act as his agent than half the agents out there anyway so who knows.

I do agree the symbolism likely did get to him as additional pressure. Plus the added attention. Once again, Jason is thrust into the forefront of US figure skating. He is the current client, so that adds more attention to Jason.
 
StitchMonkey said:
The tweet was just an example. Sometimes those little things can really be what makes a death hit home. Even if Shep just unofficially commented privately on his tweets, that absence is likely to be noticed. We don't know how many little things Shep was involved with, so we don't know how many little things are there to remind Jason. How about a tie for instance, I could see an agent saying "wear that tie" and suddenly that tie has a very very different meaning. While you are right that Jason did fine on his own before (though something that are can be seen as offensive can come from an honest mistake, which is a role an agent can try to help avoid), and his mom is a great asset for him, we just don't know how involved Shep may or may not have been in decisions that have been made. We don't know how many different ways he has to adjust to the absence.

I do kinda wonder who sought out whom in the relationship. I kinda think it was Shep that started it and Jason signed with Shep because it was Shep. He may not have been very interested in having a prominent agent but when someone like that comes knocking, you change you plans. So now he set the precedent of having an agent, and now people will be looking for his next agent, when he may not really even want to be looking himself. On the other hand his mom is likely more qualified to act as his agent than half the agents out there anyway so who knows.

I do agree the symbolism likely did get to him as additional pressure. Plus the added attention. Once again, Jason is thrust into the forefront of US figure skating. He is the current client, so that adds more attention to Jason.
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It's really a new position for him, when you think about it. In novice/juniors, he was the skater everyone loved and appreciated, but it was Joshua Farris who everyone thought would be the one that would would make a blaze in seniors. And for good reason. Joshua was always ahead of Jason technically. By a lot. Joshua had the 3A and 3-3 as a Novice while Jason could barely rotate a triple loop. While Jason was still working on a 3A, Han Yan and Joshua Farris were attempting quads.

Basically when Jason beat Joshua (see: JGPF 2011 (also Yan Han); U.S. Nationals 2010, 2011, 2012) it was because Joshua had made costly errors in his programs. Otherwise Joshua had beaten him elsewhere -- 2009 Novice, 2012 JGPF, 2013 Junior Worlds. AND also in 2013, Joshua had surprised everyone by getting the petwer medal at 2013 nationals while Jason was in 8th.

Of course, a preview of things to come actually came at 2013 Jr. Worlds when Jason won the FS with the highest score ever for a Jr. men. Joshua managed the win because of his sizable lead in the SP.

Basically Jason overperformed in the 2013-2014 season. Even Jason didn't think at first that getting on the Sochi team was possible. And then suddenly he gets on the Sochi team, gets into the final group at Sochi and had a viral YouTube video to boot. It's sort of crazy to process all that when you think about it.

But all things to consider, despite the struggles, Jason hasn't done that bad in handling the pressure.
 
Mrs. P said:
I think that I feel there's a bit of "speaking on two sides of the tongue" in conversation regarding Jason. On one hand, people will note that Jason is not competitive due to the lack of a the quad, but yet because he is generally consistent, he is still part of the conversation, especially for GP medals, as fare as being competitive.

Most people had expected Jason to podium here because 1.) even with a low BV, he does pretty cleanish programs 2.) he had received silver at SA and 3.) the men's field is unpredictable.

The best way is to say that when Jason bombed in the SP here, it was a major bomb for him. He just hasn't made that sort of error in a long time in the SP. And this time his spins weren't as sparkling as they usually were, so hence the lowest TES for him since 2013 Junior Worlds SP.

And quite frankly he has underperformed, TES wise, in the SP. He has failed to break 40 TES in either of his GP competitions. Last year, he managed TES above 43+ in SIX short clean programs in a row, from Nebelhorn 2013 to Nebelhorn 2014 (including 2 GP, Nationals and the Olympics). So it's a bit jarring to see him make errors in the SP. And it's even more jarring when that sort of error happens when so many of his competitors actually hit their quads. And even then their TES of several of them was not out of Jason's reach (Vornov and Fernandez being notable exceptions).

So hence the meme of that the consistency is gone, and that his (and Kori's) long-held strategy is a failure and that they need to get the quad stat (even if it's not ready), when really Jason's worst case scenario happened--he didn't skate clean and his competitors actually were some what clean.
Click to expand...

And there is also a touch of people that can't seem to decide if he is still in the "promising for the future" category or current contender category.
People often talk about Jason like he is expected to be a strong candidate for 2015 world gold, and frankly I think that is still a bit premature. I think most of his core fans know that, and I think his team knows that. But some people seem to think that if a skater has buzz they have to be a world gold candidate that year!
For a skater that has arrived this competition looks worse than someone who is still building up.

As for the SP and lower scores. Well, it is worth remembering that last year he had the advantage of skating a SP that he had already used for a year. This year he had to learn a new short and long while last year he was only working on the long. Honestly expecting Juke to have the same spark already that Question of You had by the Olympic is likely just setting yourself up for disappointment. It looks to me the program is still evolving to be honest (I noticed a few accents, and gesture type things that looked added this time). I also am not sure it was the best choice of program and fear the judges may have similar reactions to it as many fans. I frankly find Juke a nice blend of different from what we often see, but not totally out of left field weird for weird, sorta a safe different. I also think it works great as a contrast to his LP, sadly its contrast might be its biggest strength. Many people do not like the program, some even hate it, and that may be having a few points of impact on his scores.

I also tend to think that calling the strategy a failure is a bit premature. It was one competition, under unusual circumstances. He did poorly in the SP, but managed his personal best on the long. I don't know if i can call the strategy a failure. As for consistency. Well at least he seems to be consistently able to fix his issues from one competition to the next and have new issues at the new comp (UR at Nebelhorn, the 3A at SA, and the combinations here).

The quad is the weird piece of this puzzle. It would be interesting to see how people respond to his falling on a quad. Will it be good job for trying or eye rolling never going to happen comments. I fear if he is not perfect with it people will call it premature now :rolleye: At this point would it be better to fall on a quad than a 3A or not? Who knows. I will say that I hope he is starting to see that a fall is not the end of the world and that he does have the ability to not let it kill a program. Juke lacked energy over all, likely because he had no energy left, and really he could have been a hell of a lot worse in the SP. Though clearly not his best, it is not like he put on a 1000 yard stare sour puss face during it. Learning how to deal with mistakes is part of the process. Learning how to fall in front of a crowd and get back up is part of the process. I think part of the push for consistency in the past was that there was a fear that mistakes could rattle Jason and lead to the rest of the program to fall apart. Some skaters will always be more rattled by falls than others. I am not sure the fear it will rattle and unravel is as founded now. He seems to be figuring our how to deal with mistakes and move on. The funny thing is, you can't learn how to get back up if you are too consistent.
 
Mrs. P said:
Basically Jason overperformed in the 2013-2014 season. Even Jason didn't think at first that getting on the Sochi team was possible. And then suddenly he gets on the Sochi team, gets into the final group at Sochi and had a viral YouTube video to boot. It's sort of crazy to process all that when you think about it.

But all things to consider, despite the struggles, Jason hasn't done that bad in handling the pressure.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. He has really different pressure on him than other skaters, and I would not say he has crumbled from it. Some skaters may be able to thrive on it more than he has, but many would do much worse. The pressure has affected him, not destroyed him.

As for over performing last year, well that is one way to look at it. I think it is more that he is one of those skaters that does best when there is less pressure on him. In some ways, his getting his personal best in Russia is a sign of this. By the long he had little hope of making the podium, so he did not have as much pressure to be perfect, rather he just had to worry about doing his best. He does seem to do better when he does not see himself as being a contender. I think he may still be dealing with some growing pains in learning how to deal with the pressure when you actually do have a shot.

I hate to say it but to be honest I am not even sure I want Jason to win nationals this year (he is still the highest ranked American for the season, unless Dornbush medals or Jeremy does silver or better at NHK, he will be the top USA man at nationals for the season unless I am forgetting something). A part of me would really like to see him get to go to worlds and learn how to compete at worlds with less attention and pressure. Even if he goes on a bronze ticket, he likely will still get more attention than the other guys. I am not sure being national champion is likely to help him at this point, just more pressure.
 
StitchMonkey said:
And there is also a touch of people that can't seem to decide if he is still in the "promising for the future" category or current contender category.
People often talk about Jason like he is expected to be a strong candidate for 2015 world gold, and frankly I think that is still a bit premature. I think most of his core fans know that, and I think his team knows that. But some people seem to think that if a skater has buzz they have to be a world gold candidate that year!
For a skater that has arrived this competition looks worse than someone who is still building up.
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Yes exactly. I feel a lot of people are talking above each other. There's so many levels to approach it. 1.) Jason is a fan favorite who doesn't quite have the BIG tricks to get to the World Podium/be competitive 2.) Jason is competitive enough to help keep US in the good for three spots/GP medals or 3.) Jason is fine where he is now, but needs a lot of stuff for 2018.

Actually all three are true and applicable. In fact you can't leave out any of those. The problem is that Jason's prospects are always talked about only in the lens of one of those three points, when really all three points are applicable and true. So it becomes a zero-sum game rather than a nuanced discussion.

Richard Dornbush actually received a similar score in China [77+ in the short program] and a MUCH lower score that Jason in the FS due to a few errors (149+) and overall (226+). Yet the reaction to his competition was that he was quite successful. Obviously because he got on the podium, but also how Richard is perceived. Richard had NEVER medaled on the GP three seasons, so his bronze was seen as a success. (That said I do think Richard is a pretty huge threat this season, especially if he performs well in TEB). So you're on to something regarding "arrived" vs. "build up."


As for the SP and lower scores. Well, it is worth remembering that last year he had the advantage of skating a SP that he had already used for a year. This year he had to learn a new short and long while last year he was only working on the long. Honestly expecting Juke to have the same spark already that Question of You had by the Olympic is likely just setting yourself up for disappointment. It looks to me the program is still evolving to be honest (I noticed a few accents, and gesture type things that looked added this time). I also am not sure it was the best choice of program and fear the judges may have similar reactions to it as many fans. I frankly find Juke a nice blend of different from what we often see, but not totally out of left field weird for weird, sorta a safe different. I also think it works great as a contrast to his LP, sadly its contrast might be its biggest strength. Many people do not like the program, some even hate it, and that may be having a few points of impact on his scores.
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I agree, but I also disagree on some points. I don't think the judges have a problem with the program personally. His PCS scores are about the same as last year, if not higher in some cases. They were lower at Rostelecom, but totally reflected his sluggish performance in the SP and he got second group PCS in the FS.

The TES is the bigger problem. His highest TES ever is almost 46 points. I think obviously that's where he can build up the score. And it's weird to think he's only 1/3 this season on clean SPs after have 5 clean ones in a row last year.


I also tend to think that calling the strategy a failure is a bit premature. It was one competition, under unusual circumstances. He did poorly in the SP, but managed his personal best on the long. I don't know if i can call the strategy a failure. As for consistency. Well at least he seems to be consistently able to fix his issues from one competition to the next and have new issues at the new comp (UR at Nebelhorn, the 3A at SA, and the combinations here).

The quad is the weird piece of this puzzle. It would be interesting to see how people respond to his falling on a quad. Will it be good job for trying or eye rolling never going to happen comments. I fear if he is not perfect with it people will call it premature now :rolleye: At this point would it be better to fall on a quad than a 3A or not? Who knows. I will say that I hope he is starting to see that a fall is not the end of the world and that he does have the ability to not let it kill a program. Juke lacked energy over all, likely because he had no energy left, and really he could have been a hell of a lot worse in the SP. Though clearly not his best, it is not like he put on a 1000 yard stare sour puss face during it. Learning how to deal with mistakes is part of the process. Learning how to fall in front of a crowd and get back up is part of the process. I think part of the push for consistency in the past was that there was a fear that mistakes could rattle Jason and lead to the rest of the program to fall apart. Some skaters will always be more rattled by falls than others. I am not sure the fear it will rattle and unravel is as founded now. He seems to be figuring our how to deal with mistakes and move on. The funny thing is, you can't learn how to get back up if you are too consistent.
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Well of course the talk was premature. But people are human, and the strategy DID fail for that one segment. In this case, high BV won out. In any case, that was not so much the case in the FS.


StitchMonkey said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. He has really different pressure on him than other skaters, and I would not say he has crumbled from it. Some skaters may be able to thrive on it more than he has, but many would do much worse. The pressure has affected him, not destroyed him.

As for over performing last year, well that is one way to look at it. I think it is more that he is one of those skaters that does best when there is less pressure on him. In some ways, his getting his personal best in Russia is a sign of this. By the long he had little hope of making the podium, so he did not have as much pressure to be perfect, rather he just had to worry about doing his best. He does seem to do better when he does not see himself as being a contender. I think he may still be dealing with some growing pains in learning how to deal with the pressure when you actually do have a shot.

I hate to say it but to be honest I am not even sure I want Jason to win nationals this year (he is still the highest ranked American for the season, unless Dornbush medals or Jeremy does silver or better at NHK, he will be the top USA man at nationals for the season unless I am forgetting something). A part of me would really like to see him get to go to worlds and learn how to compete at worlds with less attention and pressure. Even if he goes on a bronze ticket, he likely will still get more attention than the other guys. I am not sure being national champion is likely to help him at this point, just more pressure.
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I don't know. He's got to learn to handle the pressure sometime. And playing safe to win (or get on the podium I guess) NEVER works. I think it's best just for him to do what he can and see where the chips falls. If he's the best that day, he's got to learn how to handle the pressure of being the best, sooner or later.
 
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Mrs. P said:
I don't know. He's got to learn to handle the pressure sometime. And playing safe to win (or get on the podium I guess) NEVER works. I think it's best just for him to do what he can and see where the chips falls. If he's the best that day, he's got to learn how to handle the pressure of being the best, sooner or later.
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And he is learning, at least I think so. You have to win to learn how to deal with the pressure of winning. You also have to fall have problems to learn to deal with the pressure of putting on a brave face. Jason is kinda getting a crash course in all of that this year. While I don't think he is failing, I do see room for improvement. I don't see any reason for pearl clutching yet with Jason. I just am not sure I am breaking out the champagne in celebration of his conquering the sport yet either. He seems to be on the right track still. Maybe that is part of the problem, on the right track is boring to read, write and talk about.

I agree 100% that playing safe can come back to bite you. It seems painfully clear that at the Olympics at least skate of your life is going to beat controlled calm and confident.

As for Dornbush. I think part of the reaction was that he was sorta seen as on his way out not on his way up. Something he is doing is working so good for him. We will see how he does at TEB. If he metals, (well I assume if he metals he does so because he managed to put out two good skates) he could actually make it to the GPF and as you said could be a major threat at nationals. Though at the same time, I don't know if i want to say threat because I don't like thinking in terms of it being Jason's to lose. Frankly I like Rickey Richard. And seeing him do well after years of not standing out is a great way to remind people male skaters usually peak later than 19!
 
Oh don't get me wrong. I'm glad Richard is improving! I actually loved his Sherlock program from 2011 and sad that he hadn't gone far since then. I think it's good he's in the mix now.

That said, I'm not quite in love with the Coldplay FS. At least not yet.

And by threat, I mean one of many for the national title, not just to Jason.
 
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Regarding Juke TES: what is the BV of this program v Prince? Is it lower? Because if it is, he has to work harder and be cleaner than he did last year to achieve similar scores. If the program is planned so that he can add a quad in later, it may have fewer transitions, lower level footwork etc.
 
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