2014 Trophée Eric Bompard Short Dance 11/21

[elysium]

Every single one of those men should be made to sit down and watch Torvill and Dean's PD repeatedly. The PD is all about male arrogance and power and machismo, which Christopher Dean has in spades in his PD. Just the way he throws Torvill to the ice at the end of it. Wowza. That's PD, not these Dating Game with Castanets. The only one to me who comes close to it is Adria Diaz. But the rest? Pah.

Agreed, the Torvill & Dean version was a masterpiece.

The cape/skirt on Piper really looks weird.

 

[beabstress]

The cape/skirt on Piper really looks weird.

I give that team a lot of credit for being brave enough to use Torvill and Dean's music, and for trying something unusual (the attached cape) in an effort to stand out from the rest. They're a great pair. Still, I prefer the more elegant and understated attire and presentation of Papadakis, and also Weaver. I think that Piper and Paul will have to be darn near PERFECT to really make the cape work and not just look like a gimmick. It's a risk, but it could really pay off for them in the long run.

 

[Mao88]

SHORT DANCE - VIDEOS & RESULT - updated

1. Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON (FRA) - 64.06 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER (CAN) - 61.90 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
3. Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE (USA) - 60.19 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
4. Sara HURTADO / Adria DIAZ (ESP) - 57.64 Short Dance
5. Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI (ITA) - 56.57 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
6. Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM (CAN) - 55.17 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
7. Rebeka KIM / Kirill MINOV (KOR) - 45.66 Short Dance

 

[KKonas]

Agreed, the Torvill & Dean version was a masterpiece.

The cape/skirt on Piper really looks weird.

That's because Torvill was the cape. Gilles looks more like a matador, which is why the cape here doesn't really work IMO.

 

[chuckm]

With the weird eye makeup, she looks more like a vampire.....

 

[Barb]

The only interesting dance for me today was Sara and Adria, I wonder if they can get better technically.

 

[dorispulaski]

Looooooooved Hurtado/Diaz And the russian commentator loved them too

The only interesting dance for me today was Sara and Adria, I wonder if they can get better technically.

They are already better than they were at their last GP!

 

[Mrs. P]

Caught up on the SDs. Will agree with many that Hurtado/Diaz was the one I was most impressed by today. They looked the sharpest out there and I agree with WeakAnkles that Adria Diaz has the cocky role down the best.

Papadakis/Cizeron had a really nervy skate today but they did not meltdown, which is good. Still not as sharp as we saw in China.

I appreciate Gilles and Portier close holds, but the execution of the dance is still not quite there for me. And the cape thing still doesn't quite do it for me.

Hubbell and Donahue looked much improved from Skate Canada, but I'd could see a case for putting them behind the other H/D.

 

[blancanieves]

Pasquale looks confused about that score--and for a reason. I expected Madi & Zach to score at least 62.

They were underscored. Tough luck for them going against homegrown teams in both of their GPs.

 

[wasabi]

I give that team a lot of credit for being brave enough to use Torvill and Dean's music, and for trying something unusual (the attached cape) in an effort to stand out from the rest. They're a great pair. Still, I prefer the more elegant and understated attire and presentation of Papadakis, and also Weaver. I think that Piper and Paul will have to be darn near PERFECT to really make the cape work and not just look like a gimmick. It's a risk, but it could really pay off for them in the long run.

Arrogance comes to mind more than bravery. C&P had a cape one year so it really isn't that new for Poirier.

 

[Snow63]

Judge #2 really disliked north-american teams. I mean he/she gave G/P 6.00 for INT, and 5.25 to H/D (same as K/M) That was kinda low tbh.

 

[sisinka]

Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron:

Paso Doble Pattern Level 3 (Key Point 3 not counted):
…Key Point 1 and 2 - well done…
…Key Point 3 – cross steps especially first two edges didn’t look good and were done after a while, not immediately, swing movement was careful and not very well done I think…

Paso Doble Partial Step Sequence Level 3 (Key Point 3 nout counted):
…Key Point 1 and 2 – light Outside edges in Step 11 when the couple must change from Inside to an Outside edge…
…Key Point 3 – I think that swing movement was wrong…

Twizzle Level 3:
…this time Gabriella was in big trouble to take her blade in the first Set and she catched blade later – between 0.50 and 0.75 rotations – which is to late for Feature to be counted (you need to get into position during first half of the rotation)…while Gabriella’s blade and skate of free leg in moment of shortly after first half of rotation was so low, that it was obvious that she couldn’t hold it in that time…shortly before end of first rotation her blade sudennly went up above the level of skating leg – in that moment she already catched her blade…and Gabriella didn’t kept the free leg for at least 3 rotations…this Feature shouldn’t be counted…
…Guillaume is catching his blade almost immediatelly when entering the Twizzle…he lost balance during first Set – went through heel and toe-pick…
…arms position kept for 4 rotations…
…third Set of Twizzles giving the Feature from Group C plus clear change of sides – another Feature from Group C…
…Level 3…
…small ice coverage…
…GOE 0 and +1 was too generous, this was not good quality this time by both of them…

Step Sequence Level 3:
…well, France is probably the only country where French can get Level 3 for such steps…
…light edges or no edges…
…Gabriella: One Foot Section: Rocker and Counter with light edges, no opening edge in Bracket and Double Twizzle OK…Mohawk OK…no opening edge in Chocktaw…another Chocktaw OK…Counter with big question for both edges…no edges in Mohawk…almost Piruette with Double Twizzle…5 clean turns and 2 under big question…
…Guillaume: One Foot Section: Rocker OK, but Counter – change of edge through heel of blade, Bracket with change of edge rather on toe-pick, Double Twizzle OK…Mohawk OK…no opening edge in Chocktaw…another Chocktaw OK…Counter OK…no edges in Mohawk…Double Twizzle OK…6 clean turns by Guillaume, but only 2 clean turns in One Foot Section…
…counted like Level 3, but deserved Level 2…

Lift with Guillaume’s visible problems to keep one foot position – shaky, going almost on toe-pick and he was forced to put his free leg towards skating leg to keep the balance (while the free leg position was planned straight bakward), but he kept it, so Level 4 was saved…8 judges giving GOE +2, 1 judge GOE +1…once again it looks like judges are looking at lady, not at man at all giving such marks…

Piper Gilles & Paul Poirier:

Paso Doble Pattern Level 4 (all Key Point counted):
…Key Point 1 – not full extension of Piper’s free leg really didn’t bothers the Technical panel – but other ladies at another Grand Prix didn’t get this Key Point because of it…and Paul with minor elevation of free leg after slide steps…
…Key Point 2 – I didn’t see second edge in Paul’s Mohawk….but Technical Panel somewhere saw it…
…Key Point 3 – quite nice edges, swing movement, Piper went into last inside edge after a while, but as I remeber this is not taken like mistake (other ladies gets Key Point counted doing the same)…from which moment jumping from one leg to another is taken like Open Mohawk - Piper does not have clean change of legs in Open Mohawk…
…well, they got Level 4, but they executed Level 1…

Paso Doble Partial Step Sequence Level 3 (Key Point 3 not counted):
…Key Point 1 and 2 – nice edges, Paul’s minor elevation of free leg after slide steps…well, I finally understand why they change the side – with Paul hiding Piper’s knee, her not full leg extension is not so visible…clever, but not fair…
…Key Point 3 – almost a jump in Open Mohawk again…
…they got Level 3 but deserved Level 2…

Step Sequence Level 2:
…Piper with a Piruette in both Double Twizzles, many light edges or no edges work…

Twizzles Level 4:
…nice and difficult Twizzles, but small ice coverage yet…

Madison Hubbell & Zachary Donohue:

Step Sequence Level 2:
…some edges good, some light, some under question…opening Double Twizzle through toe-pick by both…
…the best work in steps from all couples…but got +1.57 GOE – lower than P&C…

Twizzles Level 4:
…out of synchro…
…Madison with Piruette in the second Set, Zachary with Piruette for more than one rotation in the second Set…
…it should be Level 4 or 3…

Paso Doble Pattern Level 3 (wrong timing in Key Point 3):
…Key Point 1 – not sure with leg extension by Madison, but probably OK, Zachary almost didn’t elevate his free leg after slide steps…
…Key Point 2 – OK…
…Key Point 3 - Madison’s wrong timing in last step…

Paso Doble Partial Step Sequence Level 3 (Key Point 3 not counted):
…Key Point 1 – OK…
…Key Point 2 – once again no elevation of free leg by Zachary…
…Key Point 3 – Mohawk by Madison with wrong change of legs…

---------------------------

Watching Papadakis & Cizeron and Gilles & Poiriet makes me feel not satisfied. Watching their Skating Skills and especially Step Sequences – both couples are weak technicians.

How is it possible to get such high Skating Skills (7.93 and 7.71 points)? How is it possible that the couple with weak technique gets +1.26 and +1.89 GOE for Steps with no edges, or light edges, or no clean change of edges or shaky edges. Is really so important in Step Sequences to work with hands and while you do that judges are watching hands and what are legs doing – no care about it….but it is Step sequence, not Hand Sequence – judges should also look what legs are doing.

It looks weird that weak technicians are getting such high GOE for STEPS and edges work and that they can get over 60 points even with such technical quality of skating.

I enjoyed the event…I will write later about my minds as to presentation, all first four couples did a good job there.

 

[sisinka]

My personal notes about presentation:

Gabriella & Guillaume:

This is one of 3 best SD this season.

This time both were visibly nervous and couldn’t handle the pressure too well, almost every element was a real fight, there was a mistake also in Transitions in the beginning of the program.

Not mistakes but overall nervous feeling of both Gabriella and Guillaume caused that this time dance didn’t make such strong impression. It was still very good, but we know that they can do much better (still no macho dance style from Guillaume).

Marks very generous a little, I definitely wouldn’t go higher than they were in China, being fair, I would give a little bit less because SD in China was much better.

The couple is young, they lack the experience of being favourites at competitions, they need work on it. No matter whether you make mistakes or not – the dance program is about dance also, mistake in element is not a reason why not to put 120% into your presentation. Any program can still be great even without getting top element score.

Piper & Paul:

This dance stays problematic in my eyes.

I don’t write much about the dresses, but Piper’s dress disturbs me – the cape - somebody mentioned that she looks like Batman – yes, it reminds it and unfortunately everytime I saw her dress, the first word is Batman, not cape dress. Also that very short skirt disturbs me, it looks much more like shorts on the beach that Spanish lady’s dress.

Overall presentation is visible – the couple does 100% effort to portray a man with a cape. They are sucessful in it. But I wonder whether this is what should Spanish dance looks like.

I know that Paso Doble is about man and woman – like a Matador and his cape. But I don’t think that purpose was having cape INSTEAD of woman. I take it like an abstract thing that a woman will dance with man and will represent the cape.

In Piper’s case I see that she is a cape, but nothing more. No female feeling comes from her. And I see no connection between her and Paul – he dances like a man who doesn’t have a woman next to her, but only a material thing – a cape (like table or chair next to him).

I miss the connection between the partners, I think that Spanish dances has it and woman stays woman no matter what she portraits.

What I take like big disadvantage is the fact that the couple completely misses any passion (which is another basic thing is Spanish dance). They are dynamic and sometimes even quite bitter and cruel on movements, but no passion there.

Madison & Zachary:

It was much better than in Canada. While in Canada I criticised that Madison looked more like an American woman than Spanish woman…this time I saw Spanish woman.

I liked the presentation in first part of the dance, it would need more passionate moves in some moments and bigger gestures by arms, but overall it looked very well.

Since Paso Doble Pattern the dance slowly started to loose – the couple is overall rather slower in movements than extra dynamic and rather modest than extra expressive, but Paso Doble steps needs to be skated with sharp leg movements and with big attack of the steps.

I like the dance, but I think they should work on the Paso Doble steps part. Thanks to it the end of dance looses gradation which puts the overall look of their dance lower than it is necessary.

Sara & Adria:

This is another one of 3 best SD this season.

The best SD at this event.

The couple also was a bit nervous, they were pushing each other in some moments, but it didn’t touch their presentation too much. I personally think that they can be even better and give more expressive and passionate dance while forgetting about circumstances of being at important competition, but still this was great.

The only negative thing which I mentioned, in last part of the dance while Sara stops to be a bull, she has sometimes a head a little bit forward – then her posture lacks of majesty and it doesn’t give her that look of perfect Spanish dancer.

Why so low Component score?

My placements in presentation would be Hurtado & Diaz, Papadakis & Cizeron closely followed by Hubbell & Donohue and fourth Gilles & Poirier.

 

[dorispulaski]

I know that Paso Doble is about man and woman – like a Matador and his cape. But I don’t think that purpose was having cape INSTEAD of woman. I take it like an abstract thing that a woman will dance with man and will represent the cape.

In Piper’s case I see that she is a cape, but nothing more. No female feeling comes from her. And I see no connection between her and Paul – he dances like a man who doesn’t have a woman next to her, but only a material thing – a cape (like table or chair next to him).

You are entitled to like what you like, but it is allowed to be a matador and his cape in this dance by the rules. The best Ice dance ever Paso IMO, by Torvill and Dean, is strictly a matador and his cape. It is also allowed to be a matador and a Spanish woman. Neither interpretation is preferred by thr rules.

If you are unable to think of Piper as anything but a cape, Piper has completely succeeded in her interpretation and deserves high marks for that.

Sara & Adria's is my favorite SD this season!! It feels authentic and has interesting stuff in it. I would have it in first in PCS.

At this comp, I would have Piper and Paul tied with Guillaume& Gabriella, who skated nervously and made some significant errors both of tech and presentation that I would have marked lower than this panel did.

 

[sisinka]

You are entitled to like what you like, but it is allowed to be a matador and his cape in this dance by the rules. The best Ice dance ever Paso IMO, by Torvill and Dean, is strictly a matador and his cape. It is also allowed to be a matador and a Spanish woman. Neither interpretation is preferred by thr rules.

If you are unable to think of Piper as anything but a cape, Piper has completely succeeded in her interpretation and deserves high marks for that.

Jane Torvill was great, I would rather not try to compare her with Piper.

Spanish dances are about passion, not only about THE CAPE - any cape, not only Matador’s cape. Where do you see Spanish dance style in Piper’s presentation? From Piper’s movements I don’t see which cape (Matador's, Batman’s, Zorro’s cape) she represents.

Look at Sara Hurtado, she also didn’t portray the Spanish woman all the time, she was a bull in the first part, but in comparison with Piper, she kept the Spanish dance style. Higher marks for Sara for fulfilling the criteria.

 

[katia]

hmm, perhaps he not only disliked NorAm teams but wanted Russian pair to go to Grand Prix. If G/P will get second place Russian pair will go to Grand Prix if not they wont.

 

[dorispulaski]

I already said I would have Sara and Adria in first. But I would have had Piper and Paul second.

If Piper is a cape, she's a cape.

If you want to criticize Paul as an unconvincing matador, unable to express that she is his cape and no one else's, then I would be more likely to listen sympathetically. But there is no requirement for a cape to express Spanish passion as a woman. Certainly Jayne Torvill didn't.

 

[sisinka]

I already said I would have Sara and Adria in first. But I would have had Piper and Paul second.

If Piper is a cape, she's a cape.

If you want to criticize Paul as an unconvincing matador, unable to express that she is his cape and no one else's, then I would be more likely to listen sympathetically. But there is no requirement for a cape to express Spanish passion as a woman. Certainly Jayne Torvill didn't.

I agree with Sara and Adria...and I don't agree with Piper and Paul. I meant Spanish dance style which is certainly not only about the woman and man role, but it is simply Spanish dance style with a lot of passion etc. I don't see Spanish dance style in Piper's skating and Paul is average in it. We have simply different opinions and visibly I am not able to translate what I mean with "Piper doesn't have Spanish dance style" and Paul lacks passion.

 

[sisinka]

hmm, perhaps he not only disliked NorAm teams but wanted Russian pair to go to Grand Prix. If G/P will get second place Russian pair will go to Grand Prix if not they wont.

I like Weaver & Poje, I think that Hubbell & Donohue are very good, I think that Hawayek & Baker can be promising...and I liked Tessa and Scott very much...are they Europeans or Russians? I didn't notice.

I described what I didn't like the most - it is lack of good technique. The presentation is about many nuances which everybody feels a little bit different, so there is a space for discussion.

I don't know whether you are new here but if you start with ,,you dislike NorAm teams and want Russians into final" statement, then you know very little about what I write and think. If you are really not sure what I mean or think, you may always ask me.

As to Russians into final...I think that Russians should be in final - Bobrova & Soloviev - but because they didn't compete thanks to Dima's injury, I didn't expect any other team to finish there. If Capellini & Lanotte didn't withdraw from TEB, no Russian couple would have chance to get into Final. And opinion of international judges who put down the score for I&Z at Cup of China to allow C&L to keep at least Bronze medal - it is visible that nobody wanted other Russians into the final.

Right now I expect Coomes & Buckland to finish second in NHK Trophy. And frankly I don't have any idea what should Zueva say to judges and Technical panel to persuade them that S&K should be second instead of British couple.

P.S. You count wrongly, if Hubbell & Donohue would be second and Gilles & Poirier third here, then I&Z would have no chance to go into final even without knowing NHK Trophy's results.

 

[Snow63]

I like Weaver & Poje, I think that Hubbell & Donohue are very good, I think that Hawayek & Baker can be promising...and I liked Tessa and Scott very much...are they Europeans or Russians? I didn't notice.

I described what I didn't like the most - it is lack of good technique. The presentation is about many nuances which everybody feels a little bit different, so there is a space for discussion.

I don't know whether you are new here but if you start with ,,you dislike NorAm teams and want Russians into final" statement, then you know very little about what I write and think. If you are really not sure what I mean or think, you may always ask me.

As to Russians into final...I think that Russians should be in final - Bobrova & Soloviev - but because they didn't compete thanks to Dima's injury, I didn't expect any other team to finish there. If Capellini & Lanotte didn't withdraw from TEB, no Russian couple would have chance to get into Final. And opinion of international judges who put down the score for I&Z at Cup of China to allow C&L to keep at least Bronze medal - it is visible that nobody wanted other Russians into the final.

Right now I expect Coomes & Buckland to finish second in NHK Trophy. And frankly I don't have any idea what should Zueva say to judges and Technical panel to persuade them that S&K should be second instead of British couple.

P.S. You count wrongly, if Hubbell & Donohue would be second and Gilles & Poirier third here, then I&Z would have no chance to go into final even without knowing NHK Trophy's results.

Oh, sisinka, I think you got her wrong. She probably replied to my comment here:

Judge #2 really disliked north-american teams. I mean he/she gave G/P 6.00 for INT, and 5.25 to H/D (same as K/M) That was kinda low tbh.

She just didn't quoted it. At least that's what it looks like

Thanks for all your analysis btw. I'm rewatching the dances after reading it Really helps to understand where teams lose levels.