State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[IcyEdges]

It would be OK for Jeremy to take out the quad. But then he has to do a Lysacek -- skate with verve and nail everything else.

And in the SP at NHK he did that. Other than the stupid time violation.

Okay, here is the difference. Jason doesn't ever put it in, but instead focuses on - and mostly delivers - clean performances.

Jeremy took it out - and still was shoddy. If he had taken it out and gone beautifully clean I would 100% support his move as a great tactical move. But he didn't. He took it out and still couldn't go clean.

What were you watching? Apparently not the same SP at NHK that myself and the judging panel was.

 

[Mrs. P]

And in the SP at NHK he did that. Other than the stupid time violation. .

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2014/gpjpn2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Jeremy lost a TON of points besides the time violation. His TES did not even break 70. I supposed compared to a sub-60 TES performance that's an improvement. But his TES, as it stands in the FS, is in 10th among all the U.S. men. He would actually had finished lower in the free skate had it not been for getting the highest PCS scores, which I think is merited. But as Tara noted, the program lacked technical content and that showed in the low tech score.

While the judging panel gave credit for a strong program (i.e. high PCS), they were not generous with the +GOE even though he did the jumps.

His score at NHK was 18 points lower than his fantastic performance at Worlds (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/wc2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf) and was actually 12 points than Sochi, when he did leave the quad out and did a great performance there technically as well. (http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Men_FS_Scores.pdf)

Or even compared to NHK last year: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2013/gpjpn2013_Men_FS_Scores.pdf (And it's worth noting his PCS there was actually 3 points lower, so the higher score could be more attributed to higher TES).

 

[centerpt1]

Nobody knows what will happen at Nationals this year.

Will Aaron hit all his quads and combos, and improve his spins to win on tech?

Will Jason get a quad and land his 3A's to win?

Will Dornbush finally put out an outstanding Sp and LP to take it?

Will Jeremy show a re-tooled quad and be secure in his triples, spins and steps?

How about Miner, Carriere, Farris?

 

[IcyEdges]

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2014/gpjpn2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Jeremy lost a TON of points besides the time violation. His TES did not even break 70. I supposed compared to a sub-60 TES performance that's an improvement. But his TES, as it stands in the FS, is in 10th among all the U.S. men. He would actually had finished lower in the free skate had it not been for getting the highest PCS scores, which I think is merited. But as Tara noted, the program lacked technical content and that showed in the low tech score.

While the judging panel gave credit for a strong program (i.e. high PCS), they were not generous with the +GOE even though he did the jumps.

His score at NHK was 18 points lower than his fantastic performance at Worlds (http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/wc2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf) and was actually 12 points than Sochi, when he did leave the quad out and did a great performance there technically as well. (http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Men_FS_Scores.pdf)

Or even compared to NHK last year: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2013/gpjpn2013_Men_FS_Scores.pdf (And it's worth noting his PCS there was actually 3 points lower, so the higher score could be more attributed to higher TES).

Youre talking about the LP when I'm talking about the SP. And also bringing up Tara is a bad idea, she's the last person that needs to be running her mouth as a commentator.

 

[Mrs. P]

Youre talking about the LP when I'm talking about the SP. And also bringing up Tara is a bad idea, she's the last person that needs to be running her mouth as a commentator.

Here's the post Mathman was responding to:

Because I don't get it either, but as far as most people are concerned here..."You're damned if you do with the quad and your damned if you don't."
Jeremy took it out to play it safe this past weekend and all he got was crap about it from couch coaches here lol!

You don't specifically mention the SP or the FS. So I took as either program and in particular the FS, because he did not attempt the quad in the SP at Skate America. (I'd have to dig up the planned elements sheet for the SP).

The quad, however, was part of Jeremy's planned elements in the FS, so that is why people are referring to that.

And FWIW RE: Tara Lipinski: She LOVED Jeremy's SP and praised it high heaven how it was the best SP among all the men. And it was a great SP. I don't think anyone disputed that. It was the free skate that people were questioning the tech content.

 

[Mathman]

Actually, I thought this was Tara's best commentary. I think Johnny kind of psuhes her aside when he's there, but to me Tara and Terry worked pretty well together.

 

[centerpt1]

Actually, I don't know where Jeremy is right now with the quad. Apparently he re-tooled his jumps...so maybe his retooled 4T is not yet ready?

Tech aside, I thought Jeremy looked more comfortable competing at NHK. He didn't look nervous. The choreography seemed to flow. The LP looked much better than at SA.

Jeremy is capable of pulling up the spin and step levels. (and geeting a combo on the second 3A)

 

[IcyEdges]

Actually, I don't know where Jeremy is right now with the quad. Apparently he re-tooled his jumps...so maybe his retooled 4T is not yet ready?

Tech aside, I thought Jeremy looked more comfortable competing at NHK. He didn't look nervous. The choreography seemed to flow. The LP looked much better than at SA.

Jeremy is capable of pulling up the spin and step levels. (and geeting a combo on the second 3A)

I agree. But nothing he does is ever going to be good enough for 99.9% of the people here, which isn't a shock since these are the same people that are actually admitting to being fans of Tara L's commentary. hwell:

 

[Warwick360]

Nobody knows what will happen at Nationals this year.

Will Aaron hit all his quads and combos, and improve his spins to win on tech?

Will Jason get a quad and land his 3A's to win?

Will Dornbush finally put out an outstanding Sp and LP to take it?

Will Jeremy show a re-tooled quad and be secure in his triples, spins and steps?

How about Miner, Carriere, Farris?

I so really hope Farris ends up medalling at US. One could only venture a guess how low his confidence level might be after those two programs at NHK, which is a pity because both his programs are great, especially for me the SP.

Getting my fingers crossed for Jason, Joshua and hopefully Dornbush/Aaron

 

[centerpt1]

With Farris's talent-all he needs is a bit more skater's luck. I think it will happen for him-not sure about this year.

And what about Rippon-he's certainly capable.

 

[Tahuu]

Getting my fingers crossed for Jason, Joshua and hopefully Dornbush/Aaron

Jason has good performance, but no quad and only a >1/4 pre-rotated 3A and no pointed toes and extension in his posture.
Joshua may not enough time to recover.
Max/Jeremy/Richard with clean quads will likely win.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I'm hardly ready to announce Max Aaron as USA #1. As I've pointed out (on this very thread, I believe), Max struggles to do 4-3 cleanly, which just doesn't cut it for international standings. But on the other hand, there is some sense in supporting Max and politicking for his PCS, because the other Americans are even weaker in terms of tech

I think there is a lot of sense in pushing Max actually as he does provide a great contrast to Jason. And that is not a bad thing for either of them. I don't remember who but one person was saying the USFSA should consider using their three spots at worlds to display "The Athlete" "The Artist" and "The Performer" with Jason being the performer, Either Joshua Farris or Jeremy Abbot could fill the role of the artist very well but there are not that many USA guys that can get fill the athlete role. I thought it was a great way to look at things, and could be really smart.

I like having different types of skaters, and Max does a good job of filling a type we don't have.

 

[IcyEdges]

That's uncalled for. Max at least came back with a GP medal this season, which Jeremy hasn't done. It's hard to call someone human zamboni when the alternative is Jeremy Abbott. While I'm not a fan of Max's Gladiator, I appreciate he's doing something different in both programs, instead of the same mopey, lovelorn programs of Abbott, Miner, Dornbush, Farris... Seriously, don't we have enough of those?

I'm sorry, I just saw this. I'll take any of the guys you just listed over Aaron and his programs that don't work, and also his lucking into winning a GP medal since the field at Skate Canada was basically crap. Had he had to deal with the field at Skate America or even NHK this season, that wouldn't have been the case. He can thank his lucky stars that he picked the weakest GP event mens field and also that it turned into a splatfest.

 

[ice coverage]

... He can thank his lucky stars that he picked the weakest GP event mens field ...

LOL, Max did not pick Skate Canada International. Skate Canada picked him. Like most skaters, he had no say in his GP assignments.

 

[silverfoxes]

Skate Canada was not the weakest men's field and it wasn't anywhere near the biggest splatfest. Total fall deductions - 7. Total for Skate America - 13. Total for CoC - 14. Total for Cup of Russia - 9.

 

[Sandpiper]

I'm sorry, I just saw this. I'll take any of the guys you just listed over Aaron and his programs that don't work, and also his lucking into winning a GP medal since the field at Skate Canada was basically crap. Had he had to deal with the field at Skate America or even NHK this season, that wouldn't have been the case. He can thank his lucky stars that he picked the weakest GP event mens field and also that it turned into a splatfest.

Skate Canada was much better skated than Cup of China and TEB... and arguably Skate America as well. If Max is simply lucky to win a GP medal, then Jason is lucky to win a medal in Skate America with 2/3 3A attempts missed, Machida and Ten are extremely lucky to win medals in TEB with those LPs, and of course there's the luckiest guy of all, Maxim Kovtun, who won two GPs with a sloppy LP in one event and a disastrous SP in the next.

You are free to enjoy the half-dozen similar programs of Abbot, Dornbush, Miner, ect. But don't pretend Max Aaron is the only guy who benefited from a sloppy field. The same thing can be said about basically everyone in the entire GP series.

 

[Mrs. P]

Congrats to Grant Hochstein for placing 3rd in the free skate (150.13) at Golden Spin and setting a new personal best by 13 points in the free skate and 15 points overall (219.82). He climbed up two spots to place 4th overall.

He also broke 80 in TES and got the highest TES for the segment!

ETA:

Grant Hochstein @Grant_Hochstein
Highest tech score of the night...I'll take it. What an honor to skate with such a great and talented group of guys. #GoldenSpin2014

ETA 2:

According to the protocals (http://www.croskate.hr/GS47/html/CSCRO2014_Men_FS_Scores.pdf): Grant fell on his 4T and had an error on his first 3A, but was clean after that with five jumping passes in the second half including a 3A-2T and a 3Z-1L-3S. Great job!

 

[Icey]

Grant's short program at Golden Spin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4mu6LMuy5o

 

[IcyEdges]

Skate Canada was much better skated than Cup of China and TEB... and arguably Skate America as well. If Max is simply lucky to win a GP medal, then Jason is lucky to win a medal in Skate America with 2/3 3A attempts missed, Machida and Ten are extremely lucky to win medals in TEB with those LPs, and of course there's the luckiest guy of all, Maxim Kovtun, who won two GPs with a sloppy LP in one event and a disastrous SP in the next.

You are free to enjoy the half-dozen similar programs of Abbot, Dornbush, Miner, ect. But don't pretend Max Aaron is the only guy who benefited from a sloppy field. The same thing can be said about basically everyone in the entire GP series.

 

[karne]

Thanks Mrs. P! I enjoy reading yours and gkelly's posts. In last Nationals the Judges seemed intentionally push down Max's scores, especially in the LP, in order to send Jason to Sochi. I hope Max won't give them any excuse this time.

Sorry for the double post but just remembered I had intended to reply to this.

I don't think it was Jason they were trying to make sure went to Sochi.