Ban on Carolina Kostner Over

[Amei]

What I find interessting is, that racewalking seems to be more important than figure skating to the Italian sport officials at the moment. I mean (no offends) this is Italy, they could do something for her (they probably will anyway) if they really wanted to. She's their iceprincess, they love her.
I'm sure she at least sensed that there's something wrong with the behaviour of her boyfriend, but as we all know, one sometimes wants everything to be fine and tends to overlook a lot in relationships. Meeting Dr. Ferrari for example (I really have a problem with that, even if she hasn't actually met him (what Dr. Ferrari says she did! He later denied it.), she at least knew that her boyfriend was meeting a certain doctor. Very fishy.).

It's not whether race-walking is more important than figure skating its that clean sports trump the importance of any athlete.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be repercussions for her lying to the inspectors. I'm saying that the severity of her punishment is out of line with the severity of his punishment given the severity of each of their actions. Those are two separate issues. The punishment needs to fit the severity of the infraction, and an infraction such as actual doping is orders of magnitude more severe than telling inspectors "no, he's not here" and then tell he ex-bf to go where he was supposed to be and get tested.

Perhaps her behavior in recent months affected her punishment. From what was reported on here, she missed her initial meeting with the officials to perform or prepare for a show.

 

[solani]

It's not whether race-walking is more important than figure skating its that clean sports trump the importance of any athlete.

The Italian anti doping laws are way stricter than the anti doping laws of any other country as far as I know. They're very good. But it's Italy (again, no offense), they tend to bend their laws when necessary. I somehow think they want to make an example of Carolina. Showing that they're really doing something. And they waited long enough, so that she could compete at the Olympic games.
I mean, does anybody really think that any active athlete is going the report her or his fiancé because of the fact that Carolina is getting punished? Does this help anyone? A fine would be appropriate.
And we shouldn't forget that her offence is only an offence in Italy (as far as I know, because of the very strict anti doping laws). I believe she wouldn't get punished in any other country at all, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Right now, they're limiting her ability to work. Day release prisoners get day release so that they can go to work, isn't this whole thing downright ridiculous?

 

[Amei]

Right now, they're limiting her ability to work. Day release prisoners get day release so that they can go to work, isn't this whole thing downright ridiculous?

She can still do shows, she just can't do compete in any ISU sanctioned events. Which let's everyone state fact - she's almost 28 years old, the likelihood that she was going to compete again was slim before this ban.

 

[solani]

And that's why the CONI let that happen after the Olympics. It's a clear case of double standards.
Yes, she can still do shows, but there's a high possibility that other skaters don't want to be associated with a banned athlete.

 

[Mafke]

I'm not saying there shouldn't be repercussions for her lying to the inspectors.

She didn't lie about her own use and had no connection whatsoever to the guy's athletic career.

I don't think they have the right* to ask athletes about any use but their own and only those officially connected (like trainers/coaches) should have to answer their questions.

The doping police are corrupt enough already without giving them powers to make people snitch on each other.

*I'm talking about moral/ethical right here, not legality since there's no necessary connection between laws and morality.

 

[karne]

But they weren't asking Carolina if she knew he was using (until later in the investigation). That day, that morning, they knocked on her door and asked if he was there. That was what they asked. And she was stupid enough to lie.

 

[zamboni step]

But they weren't asking Carolina if she knew he was using (until later in the investigation). That day, that morning, they knocked on her door and asked if he was there. That was what they asked. And she was stupid enough to lie.

This whole thing reminds me of the tv show The Fall, where at one point the serial killer asks his wife to lie to the police to give him an alibi. In the tv show you're meant to feel sympathy for the wife when she eventually realises his actual motivation for asking her to do this. What I'm trying to say (in a long, rambly way), is that it's very easy to be convinced to do something for someone you love if you're forced to make a decision under pressure. He could have given any reason to her as to why she should lie, yes she shouldn't have lied but again he could have said something to her that would convince most of us for all we know. We don't know the circumstances so I don't think we're in a position to judge.

On another note: Is the proposition to strip her of her medals from the previous quadrennium still being considered? If so I do have to say that that is incredibly wrong, and another example of women being punished for their partners misdemeanors. The fact it was even proposed is straight up sexism in my opinion.

 

[karne]

No, it's nothing like that scenario, because not being in the place where you told WADA you'd be is breaking the rules, ergo, she knew he was doing something wrong when he asked her to lie for him.

That she also repeated the lie to the investigators later and didn't come clean until she was presented with evidence that they knew she was lying doesn't look good for her either.


And there was never any proposition to strip her of her medals! That was a stupid speculation by anti-Gracie/anti-American fans in this thread.

 

[solani]

But they weren't asking Carolina if she knew he was using (until later in the investigation). That day, that morning, they knocked on her door and asked if he was there. That was what they asked. And she was stupid enough to lie.

She obviously was, but then: who wouldn't have? Her fiancé asking her to tell he wasn't there (because he gave wrong information about his whereabouts, this is an offence in it's own right, she didn't want to get him into trouble for an minor error). She must have sensed then that something is wrong, but she had only a few seconds to decide what to do. And he travelled back to Italy and got tested that day.
I don't say that she shouldn't get punished at all, but a ban from ISU events is just over the top.

 

[zamboni step]

No, it's nothing like that scenario, because not being in the place where you told WADA you'd be is breaking the rules, ergo, she knew he was doing something wrong when he asked her to lie for him.

That she also repeated the lie to the investigators later and didn't come clean until she was presented with evidence that they knew she was lying doesn't look good for her either.


And there was never any proposition to strip her of her medals! That was a stupid speculation by anti-Gracie/anti-American fans in this thread.

It's exactly the same! You just have to replace "Police" with "WADA". It's lying to officials despite not knowing why you should have to and knowing it's breaking the rules, providing a false alibi is against the law. She could have felt cornered at that point, it's very hard to just turn around and throw your partner to the wolves like that with vey little time to think. I really don't think banning her is a big deal in terms of her future competitive prospects (It wasn't going to happen anyway), but I do think being banned could be quite the stain on her professional prospects in the future, and I think a fine and a final warning would be more appropriate. Well at least that wasn't true, that would have been ridiculous.

 

[Mafke]

it's very hard to just turn around and throw your partner to the wolves like that

I think for some posters here, throwing their loved ones to the wolves would be pretty easy.

 

[peg]

This whole thing reminds me of the tv show The Fall, where at one point the serial killer asks his wife to lie to the police to give him an alibi. In the tv show you're meant to feel sympathy for the wife when she eventually realises his actual motivation for asking her to do this. What I'm trying to say (in a long, rambly way), is that it's very easy to be convinced to do something for someone you love if you're forced to make a decision under pressure. He could have given any reason to her as to why she should lie, yes she shouldn't have lied but again he could have said something to her that would convince most of us for all we know. We don't know the circumstances so I don't think we're in a position to judge.

Yeah, people cover for their romantic partners all the time because they don't want to believe they're doing something wrong. Is it the right thing to do. No, but it's certainly understandable.

 

[Amei]

Yeah, people cover for their romantic partners all the time because they don't want to believe they're doing something wrong. Is it the right thing to do. No, but it's certainly understandable.

Understandable - Yes.
- In the heat of the moment we have all done something we wish we hadn't done, but our regret for the action does not erase the fact that we did it.

Does that absolve them of the punishment for lying to officials (whoever they are) - No.

 

[zamboni step]

Yeah, people cover for their romantic partners all the time because they don't want to believe they're doing something wrong. Is it the right thing to do. No, but it's certainly understandable.

Thank you, was beginning to worry my whole post was misguided and completely incomprehensible. I totally agree with you.

I think for some posters here, throwing their loved ones to the wolves would be pretty easy.

It would seem so from the way they judge Carolina from not instinctively doing so.

Understandable - Yes.
- In the heat of the moment we have all done something we wish we hadn't done, but our regret for the action does not erase the fact that we did it.

Does that absolve them of the punishment for lying to officials (whoever they are) - No.

No it does not, but that is for the judge (or whatever powers that be) to decide, not us. Whilst obviously this is a discussion forum so it'd be bizarre to chastise others for sharing their opinion, I feel some users (not you) go too far, acting as if they themselves have the right to decide her guilt and not only that but also decide how that reflects on her as a sportsman and a person. Discussing her punishment and what it should be is appropriate, discussing how this implicates a lack of character or anything to do with her personally, is not.

 

[peg]

Understandable - Yes.
- In the heat of the moment we have all done something we wish we hadn't done, but our regret for the action does not erase the fact that we did it.

Does that absolve them of the punishment for lying to officials (whoever they are) - No.

I agree it doesn't absolve the person of responsibility, and I've been saying that all along in this thread. However, I do think her punishment was too harsh relative to his given the severity of the two offenses

 

[peg]

Thank you, was beginning to worry my whole post was misguided and completely incomprehensible. I totally agree with you.

I actually made that point pages and pages ago. You're not the only one who thinks that

 

[deneb]

The explanation of the judgment:

http://www.neveitalia.it/sport/figu...tner-depositate-le-motivazioni-della-sentenza

 

[cruzceleste]

Transcript of an Internview Carolina gave.

It looks like it will be a series of differents episodes.

It doesn´t link to videos.

Any news on the appeal process?

 

[deneb]

Carolina is appealing

http://www.gazzetta.it/Sport-Invern...da-un-pool-legali-svizzeri-100835221307.shtml
http://sport.sky.it/sport/altri_sport/2015/02/10/carolina_kostner_al_tas_contro_squalifica.html

 

[solani]

Update on the Schwazer case (in german): http://www.stol.it/Artikel/Chronik-im-Ueberblick/Lokal/Alex-Schwazer-wieder-verurteilt
He is now banned until the end of April 2016 (his sentence was shortened again, because he was so cooperative) and his goal is to compete in Rio 2016, he wants to show the world that it can be done clean!
Oh, and he said that he's not the one who got Carolina into trouble, because he's only told what happend.
So I guess we'll see this calculating guy in Rio next year! :shocked: Forca Italia!