- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
Rottation is very important. If you complete the full rotation you get more credits than poping or UR the jumps.
Jason Brown
- Thread starter Tavi...
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Every jump as a base value (BV), and said base value is determined by rotation. If you fall on the element but rotate it, the BV remains intact--you simply get deducted on the grade of execution (GOE), which is maxed out at -3 (plus a -1 fall deduction). So a fully rotated quad with a fall, even after the extra 1-point deduction, is still worth a good 6 points because of its high BV.
However, if you underrotate a jump, the base value itself is lowered. In Jason's case, his quad was a full half-turn short, which means he gets only the BV of a triple. In addition to that, the rules specify that downgraded jumps can only receive negative GOE--double punishment, in other words. All in all, Jason's quad attempt only gave him 2 points.
Granted, Jason's quad deserved at least -2 for the two-foot even if he'd gotten it rotated. What I do have issues with is the cost of the downgrade--why not just give him a BV between a quad toe and triple toe? He did do 3.5 revolutions, not just 3 (and that extra half rotation is far from easy).
I'm also sick of the whole fully-rotated fall thing.
But that how COP works.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
Can't knock a man for attempting a quad in an international event... very difficult to remain competitive with an technically 'easy' program. So, kudos for Jason on the attempt, although unfortunately I am not surprised by the results...
Maybe the FS will be better, though with his point deficit and the strong field he's competing against, he will probably feel fortunate just to remain in the top 10 by the end of the FS.
Maybe the FS will be better, though with his point deficit and the strong field he's competing against, he will probably feel fortunate just to remain in the top 10 by the end of the FS.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
thanks!!!
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
thanks!!!Every jump as a base value (BV), and said base value is determined by rotation. If you fall on the element but rotate it, the BV remains intact--you simply get deducted on the grade of execution (GOE), which is maxed out at -3 (plus a -1 fall deduction). So a fully rotated quad with a fall, even after the extra 1-point deduction, is still worth a good 6 points because of its high BV.
However, if you underrotate a jump, the base value itself is lowered. In Jason's case, his quad was a full half-turn short, which means he gets only the BV of a triple. In addition to that, the rules specify that downgraded jumps can only receive negative GOE--double punishment, in other words. All in all, Jason's quad attempt only gave him 2 points.
Granted, Jason's quad deserved at least -2 for the two-foot even if he'd gotten it rotated. What I do have issues with is the cost of the downgrade--why not just give him a BV between a quad toe and triple toe? He did do 3.5 revolutions, not just 3 (and that extra half rotation is far from easy).
I'm also sick of the whole fully-rotated fall thing.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
Well, if Jason is happy having gotten it out of the way, I'm happy. Comments have also led me to to see the wisdom here of trying the quad at 4CCs, which frankly, I had never heard of before being roped back in to following skating last year.
I remember being impressed by a quote by Meagan Duhamel's coach, I believe, where he said that he initially did not want D/R to try whatever quad throw they were trying, because there is life after skating and I want Meagan to be able to walk at age 30. Until then, I had not really thought of, duh, the toll that falling on ice with these super hard super fast jumps. I would much rather Jason stay healthy and skate well.
I remember being impressed by a quote by Meagan Duhamel's coach, I believe, where he said that he initially did not want D/R to try whatever quad throw they were trying, because there is life after skating and I want Meagan to be able to walk at age 30. Until then, I had not really thought of, duh, the toll that falling on ice with these super hard super fast jumps. I would much rather Jason stay healthy and skate well.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
All the more reason it is the perfect time and place to try it!
I think we need to start promoting this idea, how cool would it be to see skaters start trying stuff out at 4CCs? It really is perfect for it, and it is always entertaining!
I think it was not really ready, but he likely learned a lot and has a better idea of what he needs to do. He does seem to learn from his mistakes, so he may be the type that needs to get that experience out there.
Didn't the comentators of bigger events ever bring it up?
Where I'm from it's never shown on TV, but if you watch any Worlds or Olys, comentators always mention if so-and-so did well/badly at 4CC. I've always thought of it as "the other Euros", just one step below Worlds.That said I hope Jason will perfect his quad and aim for the podiums soon.
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- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
I thought a much smarter way of doing it would have been to bring it out a summer comp, get the first few goes out of the way, let them see it at Champs Camp, then take it to Nebelhorn or another Senior B, then decide at that point if it's able to be put in for GP. A slow, gradual integration that hurts nothing, and has no effect on anything beyond himself.
All I can say is that if that is how it is in practice in six weeks' time, then he better not bring it out at Worlds. It's one thing to do it when it's only your butt on the line and not even be close. It's another thing entirely when team spots are on the line.
*sigh*
Why change things at this point? Why change a formula that works?
All I can say is that if that is how it is in practice in six weeks' time, then he better not bring it out at Worlds. It's one thing to do it when it's only your butt on the line and not even be close. It's another thing entirely when team spots are on the line.
*sigh*
Why change things at this point? Why change a formula that works?
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2014
I'm pretty proud of Jason for attempting it, even if it wasn't totally ready. I'm proud of how well he executed and performed the rest of his program after a faulty quad attempt, and I'm also impressed that he and Kori seemed to know exactly what was going on with the scores. They were under no illusions about what he "should" receive. I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave it out at Worlds but I do think he'll bring it back next season (and maybe save it for the long then, where the errors aren't as costly).
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
Trying the quad for the first time is difficult for everyone. I'm glad Jason has tried it here. Had to do it sometime, after all.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Thx for flagging the blog update, Stitch.
:agree: Agree about Jason having his head screwed on straight. He also tweeted the line about taking one step backward to take a big step forward.
Four more photos have been added to Jason's blog gallery. Photo #9 is more cuteness overload showing Josh and Jason at the draw.
And I knew that Jason would mention Danny's birthday.
BTW, I learned elsewhere that Danny is a fellow member of the Skokie Valley Skating Club. I suppose they have known each other since they were very young??
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Thx for flagging the blog update, Stitch.
:agree: Agree about Jason having his head screwed on straight. He also tweeted the line about taking one step backward to take a big step forward.
Four more photos have been added to Jason's blog gallery. Photo #9 is more cuteness overload showing Josh and Jason at the draw.
And I knew that Jason would mention Danny's birthday.
Yes! I was actually trying to find an olld photo of the two of them. I though I saw one somewhere.But alas no dice.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2012
Thank you - loved reading what he had to say about the quad! And especially:
"So, was it a good quad attempt in the program? NO. I am capable of executing the quad toe much better than I did, but I didn't pop it and I didn't dwell on the jump. I did the best I could to finish the program strong, and continued to perform to the best of my ability."
Instead of being discouraged, it sounds as if this attempt has rather encouraged him - knowing that he could do it better next time (whenever they decide next time will be). He has such a positive, yet realistic, outlook (not only about this, in general as well) that... well, reading his thoughts just makes me feel... happy.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
I repeat: I have no knowledge of the race of figure skating ...
I looked at the Denis Ten's SP . Wonderful jumps, really! But: between the jumps I saw "il dolce far niente", sweet doing nothing. With these port de bras he could recite to the maximum in the chorus of dancers in a theater ... then not counting some beautiful and interesting steps, just a pure lie ... just move forward on ice... he from the shoulders to the top of the head as if it were cast ... almost no movement of the shoulders and neck. Knees almost with nothing moviments.
Jason in his programs has elements (from the point of view of the dance) very difficult and very well executed. Isolations, grande plies and relevés require a lot of energy!
Somebody say it is easy perfomr artistically if you do not have big jumps. But I say the opposite: it is easier to make more big jumps if you instead of dancing on ice seriament do only simple steps ...
if we look at the jumps I understand the difference between score of Ten and score of Jason
But in terms of interpretation and artistic elements .... I do not understand it !!!!!!
If many years ago in Highland Park there was an emerging ballet studio instead of the rink Jason today would be a world-famous dancer ...
I looked at the Denis Ten's SP . Wonderful jumps, really! But: between the jumps I saw "il dolce far niente", sweet doing nothing. With these port de bras he could recite to the maximum in the chorus of dancers in a theater ... then not counting some beautiful and interesting steps, just a pure lie ... just move forward on ice... he from the shoulders to the top of the head as if it were cast ... almost no movement of the shoulders and neck. Knees almost with nothing moviments.
Jason in his programs has elements (from the point of view of the dance) very difficult and very well executed. Isolations, grande plies and relevés require a lot of energy!
Somebody say it is easy perfomr artistically if you do not have big jumps. But I say the opposite: it is easier to make more big jumps if you instead of dancing on ice seriament do only simple steps ...
if we look at the jumps I understand the difference between score of Ten and score of Jason
But in terms of interpretation and artistic elements .... I do not understand it !!!!!!
If many years ago in Highland Park there was an emerging ballet studio instead of the rink Jason today would be a world-famous dancer ...
Thank you - loved reading what he had to say about the quad! And especially:
"So, was it a good quad attempt in the program? NO. I am capable of executing the quad toe much better than I did, but I didn't pop it and I didn't dwell on the jump. I did the best I could to finish the program strong, and continued to perform to the best of my ability."
Instead of being discouraged, it sounds as if this attempt has rather encouraged him - knowing that he could do it better next time (whenever they decide next time will be). He has such a positive, yet realistic, outlook (not only about this, in general as well) that... well, reading his thoughts just makes me feel... happy.
As I've mentioned several times, there was a feeling of transcendence I saw from Jason & Kori in the K&C. And I agree, his outlook is probably one of the most appealing things about him as skater/person.
Hope we see a great FS tomorrow!
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2014
I watched the clip and saw the two-footed quad but I thought he looked good. I guess I was expecting him to fall but he didn't. Again, I know nothing about figure skating, which is why I saw something good and the media implied it wasn't. I mean, he two-footed a 3A in Nationals but still came out on top.
http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/20...four-continents-figure-skating-short-program/
http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/20...four-continents-figure-skating-short-program/
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- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
the point is other guys at 4CC will land quads and good 3A as well.Does he plan to do a quad in his FS? I watched the clip and saw the two-footed quad but I thought he looked good. I guess I was expecting him to fall but he didn't. Again, I know nothing about figure skating, which is why I saw something good and the media implied it wasn't. I mean, he two-footed a 3A in Nationals but still came out on top.
http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/20...four-continents-figure-skating-short-program/
