Elizaveta Tuktamysheva

[Sandpiper]

Ah, thank you.

So many questions.... So, when is her next competiton then? (she asked, birghtly) Maybe that will provide a few answers...

Maybe this is part of Mishin's Master Plan, though - so many potential scenarios, that the "opposition" won't know which way the cat will jump...

Maybe lutz-toe for the LP is the backup plan. In case she misses the 3A and ends up behind after the SP.

I'd like to see Liza slowly upping her technical content, rather than maxing out too fast and having no room to grow (actually, that seems like the state of the ladies' field, for a long time, with the exception of the fearless Mao Asada).

 

[LRK]

I was thinking about... well.. this and that... and it came to me that... she's been training/landing the 3A since 5th of January, I think? That's around 1 1/2 month or so. And just think how far she's come just in that time... and there's around a month left to Worlds'. Now, if she keeps on progressing at the rate she has hitherto.... Well. Suddenly I think I'm starting to understand better where Mr Mishin is coming from...

 

[Lipea]

I was thinking about... well.. this and that... and it came to me that... she's been training/landing the 3A since 5th of January, I think? That's around 1 1/2 month or so. And just think how far she's come just in that time... and there's around a month left to Worlds'. Now, if she keeps on progressing at the rate she has hitherto.... Well. Suddenly I think I'm starting to understand better where Mr Mishin is coming from...

Exactly. And plus it is the month when she does not have to worry about any other competitions, and confident that her program is polished, so she can concentrate on doing that 3a clean.

 

[Sweet Dream]

I read that most Russian fans approve Liza's decision to jump 3A at Worlds. I agree with Sandpiper that she might add 3Lz3T to the LP as a backup plan.

 

[Tutto]

I was thinking about... well.. this and that... and it came to me that... she's been training/landing the 3A since 5th of January, I think? That's around 1 1/2 month or so. And just think how far she's come just in that time... and there's around a month left to Worlds'. Now, if she keeps on progressing at the rate she has hitherto.... Well. Suddenly I think I'm starting to understand better where Mr Mishin is coming from...

I confess I am still trying to understand and failing... My first concern is Lisa's health, as recently as last summer she had back problems to the extent of not being able to walk let alone jump, back problems tend to be recurring. If as Mishin says their main goal is Olympics, then there are 2 more seasons to go just to get there, preferably with the spine not consisting more metal than bone a la Plush. What's the rush to get it all done in one season? Or next season it will be quads required of Lisa? I just hope all this comes as much from Lisa as from Mishin and she is not pushed too far.
2) I disagree that 3 months is a adequate time to practice 3A, it takes years to master jumps to the stage where they are landed on autopilot which what's needed to land them in competition more or less consistently.
3) I don't like that kind of PR when it is not backed yet by actual results. Many skaters practice jumps but it is competition that counts. I remember Sasha Cohen did 4S in 2001, tried but never landed one in competition, the only 'result' she got was recurring back problems which forced her to miss one season entirely and cancel many GP events during her career with the quality of her jumps never same as before
3) it is a bit odd statement from Lisa that her result at BO was better than at Euros, it was not, her TES was less when -1 deduction for a fall factored in and her PCS suffered becouse it was not a clean skate. If they decided to go for it regardless that's fine but there is no need to say that 2+ 2=5, we all can do simple maths thank you
4) Why I can't get Mao's Russian roulette of 3A out of my mind with the most spectacular round in Sochi?

Having said all this I will be very very happy to be proved wrong (health concerns withstanding). I would be even happier though if Lisa and her team were working on improving presentation without maxing tech content this season just making small changes like moving jumps to the second part of SP

 

[adelia]

I confess I am still trying to understand and failing... My first concern is Lisa's health, as recently as last summer she had back problems to the extent of not being able to walk let alone jump, back problems tend to be recurring. If as Mishin says their main goal is Olympics, then there are 2 more seasons to go just to get there, preferably with the spine not consisting more metal than bone a la Plush. What's the rush to get it all done in one season? Or next season it will be quads required of Lisa? I just hope all this comes as much from Lisa as from Mishin and she is not pushed too far.
2) I disagree that 3 months is a adequate time to practice 3A, it takes years to master jumps to the stage where they are landed on autopilot which what's needed to land them in competition more or less consistently.
3) I don't like that kind of PR when it is not backed yet by actual results. Many skaters practice jumps but it is competition that counts. I remember Sasha Cohen did 4S in 2001, tried but never landed one in competition, the only 'result' she got was recurring back problems which forced her to miss one season entirely and cancel many GP events during her career with the quality of her jumps never same as before
3) it is a bit odd statement from Lisa that her result at BO was better than at Euros, it was not, her TES was less when -1 deduction for a fall factored in and her PCS suffered becouse it was not a clean skate. If they decided to go for it regardless that's fine but there is no need to say that 2+ 2=5, we all can do simple maths thank you
4) Why I can't get Mao's Russian roulette of 3A out of my mind with the most spectacular round in Sochi?

Having said all this I will be very very happy to be proved wrong (health concerns withstanding). I would be even happier though if Lisa and her team were working on improving presentation without maxing tech content this season just making small changes like moving jumps to the second part of SP

1.Liza's coaches know her medical condition far better than any one of us do. If they (and Liza agreed) think that it was the right time to begin training the 3A in January, then it is probably because she is in good physical condition.
2. Not true. Different skaters master jumps at different paces. Even then, the notion that you should not attempt a difficult jump in a major competition until you have it on "autopilot" is false.
3. You shouldn't compare Liza to Sasha Cohen, who had never shown the kind of consistency and mental fortitude that Liza has shown this year, not to mention Liza's superior jumping ability and technique. And no, a 3A is not comparable to a 4S.
4."There is no need to say that 2+ 2=5, we all can do simple maths thank you." I don't understand this negativity. Why don't you just wait and see. It's not the end of the world if she doesn't win Worlds. Since Liza is keen on attempting the 3A at the big stage and thinks it is worth the risk, just support her.
5. Yeah, I have no idea why you can't get Mao's 3A out of your mind either. Because Mao had very obvious problems with her technique on the 3A (and other jumps) which Liza has never had and never will have.

 

[Sandpiper]

I would just like to mention, regarding point 4): Liza also messed up her 3-3 in the second half of her SP (doesn't seem to be a major flaw--a turn-out, perhaps?--but the GOE was negative). If she can get to a point where a fall on the 3A doesn't disturb the rest of the program, she'll have around the same scores as she does for a clean 2A.

Liza's health is of course priority, and I don't want her to push too hard. However, Europeans proved that Liza's team have much better ideas/strategies than I do, so I have no choice but to trust them for Worlds.

 

[solani]

She's training the 3A, so the possible health issues are there anyway and because of that it would be a real pity if she wouldn't try it in competition.

 

[Tutto]

1.Liza's coaches know her medical condition far better than any one of us do. If they (and Liza agreed) think that it was the right time to begin training the 3A in January, then it is probably because she is in good physical condition.
2. Not true. Different skaters master jumps at different paces. Even then, the notion that you should not attempt a difficult jump in a major competition until you have it on "autopilot" is false.
3. You shouldn't compare Liza to Sasha Cohen, who had never shown the kind of consistency and mental fortitude that Liza has shown this year, not to mention Liza's superior jumping ability and technique. And no, a 3A is not comparable to a 4S.
4."There is no need to say that 2+ 2=5, we all can do simple maths thank you." I don't understand this negativity. Why don't you just wait and see. It's not the end of the world if she doesn't win Worlds. Since Liza is keen on attempting the 3A at the big stage and thinks it is worth the risk, just support her.
5. Yeah, I have no idea why you can't get Mao's 3A out of your mind either. Because Mao had very obvious problems with her technique on the 3A (and other jumps) which Liza has never had and never will have.

Unfortunately even the best jumping technique in the world cannot guarantee injury free career, Plush and Lisa herself are kinda proof of that. Risk of injury increases with overwork & difficulty. As I said I am concerned for Lisa's health, it all feels just too much too soon.
Lisa's new found consistency is wonderful but it was not always so, so we won't compare her to other skaters just yet, especially of Sasha Cohen's calibre.
I want Lisa to win Worlds this year, it is within her reach, and yes 3A seems to me too big a gamble but as I said I will be happy to be proved wrong.

 

[LRK]

Yes, I'm sure we are all united in wishing Liza the very best and all success.

 

[Meoima]

Unfortunately even the best jumping technique in the world cannot guarantee injury free career, Plush and Lisa herself are kinda proof of that. Risk of injury increases with overwork & difficulty. As I said I am concerned for Lisa's health, it all feels just too much too soon.
Lisa's new found consistency is wonderful but it was not always so, so we won't compare her to other skaters just yet, especially of Sasha Cohen's calibre.
I want Lisa to win Worlds this year, it is within her reach, and yes 3A seems to me too big a gamble but as I said I will be happy to be proved wrong.

I think the heart of a champion is "going for it regardless of the results". I also hope that her back is aright. Light all the candles for her.

 

[karne]

I'm quite sure that Mishin has a firm grip on the reins and isn't about to let Liza go do something stupid that will get her hurt.

 

[Sweet Dream]

Melissa, Liza and her team obviously know what they are doing now, so, don't worry too much.

 

[astronaut]

Dropping in to add my name to the list of Liza Tuktamysheva fans. I love the friendly Liza vs Elena rivalry. They are the best, at least for the moment.


Mike

 

[LRK]

Welcome! Drop in more often.

The rivalry is really great - I'm a Liza fan, but I like Elena a lot as well. Worlds' wll be exciting.

 

[plushyfan]

Welcome! Drop in more often.

The rivalry is really great - I'm a Liza fan, but I like Elena a lot as well. Worlds' wll be exciting.

same feelings

Melissa, Liza and her team obviously know what they are doing now, so, don't worry too much.

yes, they know.

 

[Tutto]

I think the heart of a champion is "going for it regardless of the results".

You are probably right, though I still don't like a 'regardless of the results' bit. Gold for Lisa please! But I guess it is a fan's job to support even when disagree with decisions of their favourite.
It is not Lisa's fault that the current system encourages to try new elements even when these are not quite ready by not penalising for falls sufficiently, IMHO anyway. I just hope that ladies discipline will not take the men's route with endless splatfests (how many clean LPs we've seen this season?) and we will continue enjoying watching clean performances at least from the top three ladies.

 

[Crossover]

I'm suddenly curious to know how Liza pick up the LP music for her. The only another skater that adventured the exotic and enchanting music is Jill Trenary AFAIK, and she was active as a competitive skater 3 decades ago (thanks to google searching). At first, her choice of the oriental themed music looked to me very unusual, but I'm stuck with and really like it.

 

[sabinfire]

I'm suddenly curious to know how Liza pick up the LP music for her. The only another skater that adventured the exotic and enchanting music is Jill Trenary AFAIK, and she was active as a competitive skater 3 decades ago (thanks to google searching). At first, her choice of the oriental themed music looked to me very unusual, but I'm stuck with and really like it.

I've seen this description before here. Would this be considered an "oriental" theme? (Just asking for opinions.)

La Bionda are generally classified as one of the creators of "Italo-disco" music. Not sure exactly what specific regional sound they were going for with 'Sandstorm', though.

'Batwannis Beek' is Arabic music, or more specifically, Algerian Arabic.

I agree, I appreciate the change of pace in skating program music. Too bad about the Bolero SP though... that's one I can do without.

 

[LRK]

I think the heart of a champion is "going for it regardless of the results".

You are probably right, though I still don't like a 'regardless of the results' bit. Gold for Lisa please! But I guess it is a fan's job to support even when disagree with decisions of their favourite.
It is not Lisa's fault that the current system encourages to try new elements even when these are not quite ready by not penalising for falls sufficiently, IMHO anyway. I just hope that ladies discipline will not take the men's route with endless splatfests (how many clean LPs we've seen this season?) and we will continue enjoying watching clean performances at least from the top three ladies.

Well, she still lost around 3 points against what she's done with a clean program - so going for a 3A+fall is actually not advantageos - it just isn't quite the loss it could have been. And Liza is not prone to UR, which some ladies are - so I don't see a horde of ladies rushing off and doing 3As honestly. I do hope some will try, though - the 3A is virtually extinct in ladies skating at this point.