Ban on Carolina Kostner Over

[Amei]

I don't understand how it is so hard for some people to give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean ... how many partners have affairs while being in an ongoing relationship, without the other one knowing or suspecting anything is wrong? If you trust your partner, there is no reason to be suspicious.

Carolina said in an interview that she never discovered anything suspicious in her fridge. He hid the drugs in a vitamin box. Why would she go and check if she didn't suspect anything was wrong? Athletes take vitamins all the time, nothing unusual. If my partner keeps a vitamin box in my fridge, why on earth would I go and open that box to check if they are really vitamins? I am sorry but if you trust your partner, no one would do that.

Too many questionable things are popping up. 1 by itself, it would be easy to give someone the benefit of the doubt - but there's now several things piling up against Carolina suggesting she was either a) incredibly clueless or b) knew about the doping

 

[peg]

Did I say she would open the box to check if they are vitamins?

It's called CURIOSITY.

Part of the human condition.

I don't know why that is so hard for some of you to believe.

"ooh vitamins? Can I try one? Are they better than the kind I take?"
or better yet
"What's this unlabeled thing sitting in my fridge?"
"Mind if i have some of those ____ (random doped up foods that look like ordinary food)?"

And I don't see why it's so hard for YOU to believe that someone WOULDN'T go poking through their significant others' things or even ask about it. They both trained and traveled a lot, so they probably had more important things to focus on when they were together.

And why is it so hard for you to believe that some people actually respect the personal space of the person they love?

At the end of the day, what you're saying is 100% pure speculation that has no evidence whatsoever to substantiate it. It's something that you have pulled entirely out of thin air. And hearings should not be decided on nothing more than speculation - because anyone can speculate anything. I can speculate that you're making these speculations because you're Schwazer's best friend and you want to smear Carolina's name. But my speculating it does not make it fact, does it?

 

[dorispulaski]

What? You mean you clean your refrigerator obssessively? Have you never said 3 months later, "So that's where the marmalade got to?" Not to mention, "What is this mummified object behind the marmalade? Was it once an apple?"

Many people were brought up to keep out of their housemates' stuff: their drawers, their letters, their diaries, their room,and yes, their shelf in the frige: whence cometh the fairy tale story "Bluebeard." In my mother's house, this kind of disrespect of others would earn you a severe punishment. And childhood lessons carry on to adult habits. I can easily believe she would not be taking apart and snooping into his stuff like some Junior G-Man or paparazzi.

 

[peg]

Many people were brought up to keep out of their housemates' stuff: their drawers, their letters, their diaries, their room,and yes, their shelf in the frige: whence cometh the fairy tale story "Bluebeard." In my mother's house, this kind of disrespect of others would earn you a severe punishment. And childhood lessons carry on to adult habits. I can easily believe she would not be taking apart and snooping into his stuff like some Junior G-Man or paparazzi.

Yup. It's about basic respect and healthy boundaries.

 

[bekalc]

Kostner is an athlete.
Kostner took an oath as an athlete.
Part of Kostner's oath was to obey the roles on doping and not to help anyone else dope.
Kostner knows that her boyfriend shouldn't have lied to the officials about his whereabouts.
Kostner choose to lie.

Does this make her the worst person ever. No. But she did break the rules. This is really a small ban

(Now do I think she was helping him knew the whole time he was doping. Not necessarily. But she's experienced to know the significance of him lying to doping officials about his whereabouts.

 

[Mafke]

Kostner knows that her boyfriend shouldn't have lied to the officials about his whereabouts.
Kostner choose to lie.

Heaven forbid that atheletes assume that they have right to a private life. Of course they should let officials know about the scheduling of their sex lives.

 

[Vernella]

Kostner is an athlete.
Kostner knows that her boyfriend shouldn't have lied to the officials about his whereabouts.
Kostner choose to lie.

Does this make her the worst person ever. No. But she did break the rules. This is really a small ban

On the other hand
- the officials shouldn't have gone to her house to find him. That was not an address where by the rules they could expect him to be
- she had to act quite quickly and while she may have chosen the wrong thing it surely wasn't to help his boyfriend dope
- the ban may be small (it isn't) but fact that they even only thought of giving her a longer ban that the guy who actually doped is ridiculous

 

[Mafke]

- she had to act quite quickly and while she may have chosen the wrong thing it surely wasn't to help his boyfriend dope
- the ban may be small (it isn't) but fact that they even only thought of giving her a longer ban that the guy who actually doped is ridiculous

She reacted the way a normal human being who knows the word "discretion" does when their overnight visitor is supposed to be somewhere else, she said he wasn't there and then told him to get where he supposed to be as quickly as possible.

That they're going easy on him (for toadying up to the little dictators) and hard on her is plain disgusting and more than a little sexist.

 

[Mafke]

- the officials shouldn't have gone to her house to find him. That was not an address where by the rules they could expect him to be

Silly Vernella, rules aren't for the all-powerful doping police, they're for the athletes whose private lives are supposed to be an open book.

It's kind of like the ISU where officials have always been held to a far lower standard of behavior than competitors.

 

[Vernella]

Silly Vernella, rules aren't for the all-powerful doping police, they're for the athletes whose private lives are supposed to be an open book.

It's kind of like the ISU where officials have always been held to a far lower standard of behavior than competitors.

Oh right, how could I have forgotten it

But really, since Schwazer was fleeing from them and was actually found doped, I wouldn't really blame the doping officials for trying all they could. I'm more bitter to the CONI which really lacks perspective in this affair - or worse, is purposefully trying to shift the blame and attention to Caro, since she's at the end of her olympic career while he's still good for the next medals... Obviously politics take precedence over justice, as always.

 

[bekalc]

She reacted the way a normal human being who knows the word "discretion" does when their overnight visitor is supposed to be somewhere else, she said he wasn't there and then told him to get where he supposed to be as quickly as possible.

That they're going easy on him (for toadying up to the little dictators) and hard on her is plain disgusting and more than a little sexist.

Part of being an athlete is that you do make your location available for doping officials. Kostner knows this. She knows that's part of the deal her boyfriend signed up for and she signed up for. So she knows its a big deal that her boyfriend would lie about his location.

He lied about his location not because he wanted private time with Kostner but because he was doping. Kostner took an oath saying she would not help anyone evade doping officials. He and her both made an agreement to make their locations available at all times to doping officials.

She knows its a big deal that he lied about his location and the country he was in to officials. By lying she helped him evade.

Now he should be punished more. But I'm tried of this she did nothing wrong. We all make mistakes/error in judgements.

 

[cruzceleste]

Oh right, how could I have forgotten it

But really, since Schwazer was fleeing from them and was actually found doped, I wouldn't really blame the doping officials for trying all they could. I'm more bitter to the CONI which really lacks perspective in this affair - or worse, is purposefully trying to shift the blame and attention to Caro, since she's at the end of her olympic career while he's still good for the next medals... Obviously politics take precedence over justice, as always.

They are not shifting the blame her boyfriend got his punishement. And now they are making Caolina accountable for her actions.

 

[Buttercup]

They are not shifting the blame her boyfriend got his punishement. And now they are making Caolina accountable for her actions.

Did his penalty for evading inspectors match or exceed hers?

 

[cruzceleste]

Did his penalty for evading inspectors match or exceed hers?

His penalty was bigger than Carolina (are people arguing with out knowing this?)

Carolina 16 months
Alex Schwazer three-and-a-half (38 months) year competition ban

 

[Buttercup]

His penalty was bigger than Carolina (are people arguing with out knowing this?)

Carolina 16 months
Alex Schwazer three-and-a-half (38 months) year competition ban

Don't blame me for your reading comprehension fail. What was his penalty for evading inspectors - not for actually testing positive?

This says it's way less than what she got. Because he was so cooperative.

p.s. 38 months is not three and a half years.

 

[cruzceleste]

Don't blame me for your reading comprehension fail. What was his penalty for evading inspectors - not for actually testing positive?

This says it's way less than what she got. Because he was so cooperative.

p.s. 38 months is not three and a half years.

Well his punishement is still larger than her. And I´m sorry my first language is not english.

And his punishement from the link you posted:

Former Olympic race walking gold medalist Alex Schwazer was handed an additional six-month ban on Thursday for evading doping tests, but will still be eligible to potentially compete in the 2016 Summer Games.

The Italian Olympic Committee's anti-doping court announced the additional punishment will start from the end of Schwazer's current 3 1/2-year ban and includes a three-month suspended sentence, allowing him to return to competition on April 29, 2016.

He already has been suspended for 3 years, and they are adding 3 months. His "crimes" dopping and avointing.

Carolina´s helping to avoid, so go read WADA regulations. Both punishement stick to this.

 

[salchowx4]

Heaven forbid that atheletes assume that they have right to a private life. Of course they should let officials know about the scheduling of their sex lives.

So you disagree with the 'whereabouts' requirement? How could you effectively fight doping at the elite level without it?

 

[Buttercup]

Well his punishement is still larger than her. And I´m sorry my first language is not english.

Neither is mine. And my point in the earlier post should have been clear even without being a native speaker.

He already has been suspended for 3 years, and they are adding 3 months. His "crimes" dopping and avointing.

Yes, six months to her sixteen - and they deliberately asked for a lighter punishment for him than they could have, as a reward for his cooperation. Even though he was the actual doper who spent years avoiding tests and talked his girlfriend into lying about his whereabouts. I think that shows pretty clearly that CONI's top priority is not justice or even fighting doping (those two things are not always the same, contrary to what some believe).

How anyone can be anything but cynical about their behavior is beyond me.

So you disagree with the 'whereabouts' requirement? How could you effectively fight doping at the elite level without it?

Well, let's fit the athletes with GPS trackers, that will make things even easier!

Actually, I think so long as the current rules regarding banned substances are in place, you do have to have proper testing. But instead of making athletes commit to a location, why not have them give contact options (phone, email, etc. - preferably more than one), and if they need to come in to be tested, send them to a nearby testing site, which they would need to reach within a certain amount of time?

 

[kiara_bleu]

Interesting thing is in all likelihood this apparently corrupt and politically motivated system actually benefited Carolina Kostner. Wasn't the Schwazer investigation way before the Sochi Olympics? Didn't all of these information and subsequent case against Carolina come out after Sochi? Think about what would have happened if it became known that Carolina lied to doping officials then. You don't need an official investigation against Carolina, there would have been public/media scrutiny and judgement against her and it would have intensified going into Sochi. She would have been under a cloud of suspicion, warranted or not. How would that affect her performance or way she was judged?

Funny thing about perception, because most people are inclined to see WADA as this power hungry entity, and their actions sort of justify that, then Carolina in comparison is seen as this innocent and defenseless athlete who became a casualty. But what if the same exact information from the investigation came out but WADA did not pursue it? Media would have been still all over this with insinuations and suspicions but without WADA acting as the bad guy it would be all about what Carolina is capable of doing in the name of love. Soap opera stuff that media relishes.

 

[solani]

But really, since Schwazer was fleeing from them and was actually found doped, I wouldn't really blame the doping officials for trying all they could. I'm more bitter to the CONI which really lacks perspective in this affair - or worse, is purposefully trying to shift the blame and attention to Caro, since she's at the end of her olympic career while he's still good for the next medals... Obviously politics take precedence over justice, as always.

:thumbsup:

Interesting thing is in all likelihood this apparently corrupt and politically motivated system actually benefited Carolina Kostner. Wasn't the Schwazer investigation way before the Sochi Olympics? Didn't all of these information and subsequent case against Carolina come out after Sochi? Think about what would have happened if it became known that Carolina lied to doping officials then. You don't need an official investigation against Carolina, there would have been public/media scrutiny and judgement against her and it would have intensified going into Sochi. She would have been under a cloud of suspicion, warranted or not. How would that affect her performance or way she was judged?

The investigation against her started so late because Schwazer retired after his first ban. He changed his mind, retired from his retirement and well, he needed to "give" the investigators something to shorten his sentence so that he can compete in Rio. He could have chosen the people that actually made him dope (I'm sure he was under pressure, I think he still is. That doesn't change my opinion about him, but it's not all black and white) or supported him. He chose Carolina.
I only want to add one thing about those new better anti-doping rules (I think they're good, in fact): They were made and updated to get the instigators, the sport officials who want to see results, the doctors who earn a lot of money with it, the trainers, the whole medical staff etc.. Not the girlfriends who happen to be athletes coincidentally.