Mao Asada

[Maofen]

The way people were/are hyping it I also thought it would be out-of-this world, but it wasn't (perobably for now). I was still impressed though. However I refrain myself from commenting because I'm pretty sure I would be accused of being a hater when in the contrary I have no problem with other ladies doing 3A (I'm still waiting for my baby Wakaba to conquer this jump)

I should have lowered my expectations of Liza's 3A. Definitely not Han/Hanyu level 3A everyone has been harping about the past few months.

 

[Maofen]

Having said that, after yesterday's ladies event I start disliking Shin Amano more and more. I don't get his problem with Mao as he were often uber strict to her jumps, while to other Japanese skaters he doesn't show that strictness at all. Poor Mao.

Tell me about it.. he was not uber strict to Mao, he simply screwed her score over and over again. He treated other skaters (not only Japanese) better.

 

[Ultra]

It was not fully rotated by the standards Mao is judged, she landed facing forward. Sorry. I've seen Mao downgraded for much less.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p7dlC-yIbic/VRTt0yugwqI/AAAAAAAAAQU/9TLN-TECTRY/s1600/_.png

 

[gravy]

I should have lowered my expectations of Liza's 3A. Definitely not Han/Hanyu level 3A everyone has been harping about the past few months.

Why would you compare a female triple axel (an element only 6 women have managed to do) to two of the best men's 3A in the world where the element is basically a requirement?

 

[Ultra]

Liza's 3A was great today, but I can't stop thinking about Mao's 3A. Liza has the height, but Mao's takeoff, rotation, and especially landing of her 3A is better than Liza's.

Probably the other way around... Mao's 3A is higher. Her air position is more elegant. Liza's take off is most definitely better than mao's. Landings can be debated. I liked liza's today. Definitely a proper 3 and 1/2 rotations

No and no.

Mao's triple axel is over 65cm. There is no way Liza's is anywhere near that.
As far as rotation goes, when Mao lands, she is facing perpendicular to the line of flight, which is exactly at the quarter-turn limit.

Liza landed with her body facing forward. That's a full quarter turn short of the minimum landing.

This would be downgraded if Mao did it:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p7dlC-yIbic/VRTt0yugwqI/AAAAAAAAAQU/9TLN-TECTRY/s1600/_.png

This is not 2005 where anything goes.

Liza spent the last 2 months working on the 3A and that's great. Mao spent the last 10 years working 1 hour every day on it.
Thousands of hours went into Mao's ultra-refined triple axel. A few hundred hours at most went into Liza's.
There is no way the quality can be matched.
The difference is bigger than between Chan's 3A and Hanyu's 3A.


Edit: wrong URL.

 

[Ultra]

Interesting fact for the posters on the SP women's World thread who seem intent on criticizing Mao's triple axel for alleged urs, skids, alleged lack of a running edge out of the jump, etc. and proclaimed Mao's jump as "inferior" to Liza's.

It is unbelievable how ignorant some people on this forum are. I'm so glad I never saw that thread, I would be banned by now.

Liza spent 2 months working on the 3A, Mao spent 10 years. There is going to be a quality difference!

They want to talk about URs?!?! Did they not see Liza's landing?? She landed facing forwards!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p7dlC-yIbic/VRTt0yugwqI/AAAAAAAAAQU/9TLN-TECTRY/s1600/_.png

 

[CarneAsada]

Ultra, Liza's toe pick hasn't even touched the ice yet in the last picture. No she didn't land completely backwards (and in the slow motion edits you can see a small hook on the ice), but look at her right foot in your picture: it's not down on the ice yet - her foot is clearly higher than in the takeoff frame - and it's already nearly 1/4 turn past forwards. I like the look of Mao's 3A much more than Liza's (and the rest of her skating goes without saying) but credit where credit's due, Liza landed a 3A and it was rotated enough to be ratified.

 

[Ultra]

Ultra, Liza's toe pick hasn't even touched the ice yet in the last picture. No she didn't land completely backwards (and in the slow motion edits you can see a small hook on the ice), but look at her right foot in your picture: it's not down on the ice yet - her foot is clearly higher than in the takeoff frame - and it's already nearly 1/4 turn past forwards.

No it's on the ground. I have seen the entire sequence about a dozen times frame by frame. Her weight is fully on the ground.
The camera is not completely perpendicular to the line-of-flight, she is jumping slightly away from it, thus the higher appearance.

 

[solani]

It is unbelievable how ignorant some people on this forum are. I'm so glad I never saw that thread, I would be banned by now.

Liza spent 2 months working on the 3A, Mao spent 10 years. There is going to be a quality difference!

They want to talk about URs?!?! Did they not see Liza's landing?? She landed facing forwards!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p7dlC-yIbic/VRTt0yugwqI/AAAAAAAAAQU/9TLN-TECTRY/s1600/_.png

She's pretty good for only working on it for 2 months, isn't she?
No, joking aside, there's a video of her doing a 3A on youtube were she's 13 years old. So get a grip.

I love Mao as a skater, I love her 3A, well honestly, if you're a skating fan, you simply have to love Mao. You're no skating fan if you don't.
My love for Elizaveta is still constantly growing, it's a different kind of love, but still love. Very much so. I will only add, that you're a very very strange skating fan if you cannot appreciate what Elizaveta has given us and I kind of feel sorry for you.

 

[minze]

I am proud of Liza for doing this considering how much criticism Mao got for keeping the jump. Without Mao ladies would not attempt this jump.

 

[Maofen]

I am proud of Liza for doing this considering how much criticism Mao got for keeping the jump. Without Mao ladies would not attempt this jump.

Seconded.

 

[mary01]

I miss her too but somehow I feel that even if she skates amazing, she will get lowballed on pcs. So, I kind of relief that she doesn't compete.

This just shows that we have no trust in the judges anymore, the inconsistent judging makes it hard to keep watching, I have to honestly admit that before worlds i missed most of the season, because of lack of interest.

 

[gotoschool]

Here is a video of Mao's triple axel in the Worlds SP side by side with Liza's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y15D0Aa3Stg

 

[ArcticMonkeys]

This just shows that we have no trust in the judges anymore, the inconsistent judging makes it hard to keep watching, I have to honestly admit that before worlds i missed most of the season, because of lack of interest.

You are right. This season has not been very interesting because many incredible female skaters have retired or they are having a break. Last year Worlds were totally different for me. I was so worried about Mao and then I saw how she skated so beautiful short program. It was a masterpiece artistically and techically. This time, well, I watched them skate but it was not as interesting as last year.

IMO Mao's triple axel in Worlds 2014 is better than Liza's.

 

[MaxSwagg]

I think she could still be competitive. She could do this for a program:

3A (–GOE; maybe <)
CCoSp3P(4)
FCSp(4)
3Lox
3F+3Tx
StSq(4)
LSp(4)

Maybe I'm optimistic but I can't see the judges giving her lower components than Tuk. So with components of at least 34, a program like this would give about 75; 72/73 with an under-rotated 3A. Of course, contingent on getting the levels and an average of +2 GOE.

Or she could do (probably the worst scenario if she can't get the loop credited)

3A (–GOE; maybe <)
CCoSp3P(4)
FCSp(4)
3Sx
3F+3Lo(<)x
StSq(4)
LSp(4)

This would still give her at least 70-ish points. Again, maybe I'm optimistic with the judges being nice.

 

[jkun]

I think she could still be competitive. She could do this for a program:

3A (–GOE; maybe <)
CCoSp3P(4)
FCSp(4)
3Lox
3F+3Tx
StSq(4)
LSp(4)

Maybe I'm optimistic but I can't see the judges giving her lower components than Tuk. So with components of at least 34, a program like this would give about 75; 72/73 with an under-rotated 3A. Of course, contingent on getting the levels and an average of +2 GOE.

Or she could do (probably the worst scenario if she can't get the loop credited)

3A (–GOE; maybe <)
CCoSp3P(4)
FCSp(4)
3Sx
3F+3Lo(<)x
StSq(4)
LSp(4)

This would still give her at least 70-ish points. Again, maybe I'm optimistic with the judges being nice.

Mao should come back if she really wants to skate at the competitive level. If she wants to come back because she wants to win I think she needs a 3A and a 3Lo-3Lo for the short (to combat Liza). Even then, Liza is Mao's worst fear: a skater that has all the triples and then a triple axel.

 

[minze]

Mao should come back if she really wants to skate at the competitive level. If she wants to come back because she wants to win I think she needs a 3A and a 3Lo-3Lo for the short (to combat Liza). Even then, Liza is Mao's worst fear: a skater that has all the triples and then a triple axel.

Please if the judges were fair Mao should win because her components should be higher than Liza's. I don't want Mao to come back to judging were her and Liza, Elena and Ashley have similar components to Mao. Those girls although good are not on her league.

 

[gotoschool]

Mao should come back if she really wants to skate at the competitive level. If she wants to come back because she wants to win I think she needs a 3A and a 3Lo-3Lo for the short (to combat Liza). Even then, Liza is Mao's worst fear: a skater that has all the triples and then a triple axel.

I think the judges highly suspect scoring of Mao's Sochi LP and her Worlds LP indicates that Mao will likely have to compete against the judges as well as other competitors. It is difficult to make posts pretending that the scoring has been fair for Mao when in my opinion and many others they haven't. To say it again, Mao's Sochi LP, which received the most praise at the Olympics, received 6th place GOE, 5th place PCS and 2 downgrades, not to mention what many consider to be bogus downgrades at Worlds. So, while Mao's jump layout compared to her competitors is definitely a consideration, one of my biggest concerns is that Mao will be scored unfairly relative to the competition. This "scoring precedent" has already been set in her LP.

 

[Maofen]

Her components should be higher than everyone in the field, but who am I'm kidding? I already gave up hoping for a fair judging for Mao.

Jkun I don't think Mao fears anybody. Liza is a great jumper, I think competing against
her (if Mao decides to continue) will actually elevate Mao's desire to get (even) better than now. IMO She can definitely do that but of course, once again, I don't trust the judges.

Please if the judges were fair Mao should win because her components should be higher than Liza's. I don't want Mao to come back to judging were her and Liza, Elena and Ashley have similar components to Mao. Those girls although good are not on her league.

 

[Maofen]

I always think anonymous judging is a disgrace. ISU should've published their names so they can be held accountability for their fair or (most often) dubious judging. Even if it can't change the outcome of the competition at least people can ask them for explanation.