Can Chan be on the top again?

[Jaana]

I really like Chan´s skating and will be eagerly waiting for the next season and expect him to be at next WC among top four. It will be a hard fight, I´d expect. Besides, I´d guess that e.g. Kovtun will not finish quite as low as in 2015.

Maybe Chan finds it very difficult to be complimentary towards skaters who will be his closest competitors? Is he afraid that positive remarks will change how the judge value his own skating? Anyway, Chan failed in Soshi big time as Hanyu gave him every opportunity to become the winner of the Olympic gold medal. I find it really hard to believe that he has not watched the WC performances of his closest competitors very closely.

 

[plushyfan]

I cannot imagine what Patrick remark will be if someone ask him about Plushenko returning :hopelessness:

his latest words on Plushy:
http://izvestia.ru/news/566260
Chan:
- Plushenko earned the right to this unique holiday. He did his job well in the command start. Plushenko without Russia would be difficult to create such a significant lead over the competition. He played a major role in their victory.
For me it was a great honor to skate with Plushenko on the same ice. Now I want to wish him good health ..
Plushenko changed figure skating, raised it to a new level. I will say more : he is a legend of figure skating ..
Plushenko is to be commended . Remember how great the audience supported him during his skateing . How love him ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQPBKZ4zeyE Chan full of praise for Plushchenko

But before Sochi he wasn't polite..so we will see, will see...

Not that Patrick isn't known for outrageous remarks, but he has actually been far classier with regards to Plushenko than vice versa... certainly hasn't said anything akin to Plushenko saying Chan's federation won him his World Championship in 2013. Chan could have easily retorted by saying Plushenko's reputation with his federation got him an Olympic spot instead of him earning a spot by competing at Euros.

And Chan hasn't been a poor sport when he's lost, compared to Plushenko's whining after losing to Lysacek in 2010. If I recall correctly, he was actually highly complimentary about Plushenko appearing in Sochi.

Do you want to protect Chant with bashing Plushenko? It isn't too elegant. Not to mention because of Plushy's words and his supporters ( they were many people, experts, old skaters, outside of North-America he was the real winner) the ISU has changed the rules immediately in June 2010..... Chan needed to learn the quad.

My response was in response to somebody else's post about what Chan's reaction would be to Plushenko returning. And I said that he would probably be complimentary about it, as he was with Plushenko showing up in Sochi. But the poster assumed Chan would be negative about it, to which I retorted it certainly wouldn't be as negative as anything Plushenko has asserted about him.

As I will reiterate, it's never okay when any skater says disparaging things and whether it's Chan/Trankov/Joubert/Plushenko/Weir/etc. it really reflects poorly. Also when authors like Hersh suggest things like Chan's championship was homecooked that is never good for the sport either. It completely dismisses things like Chan having a strong SP, having two quads in his LP to Ten's one, and Ten doubling two triples. Ten still should have won, but to say that a federation orchestrates that stuff without any actual proof is wrong. Saying the judges got it wrong is one thing (since, hey, that's figure skating for you) but you can't claim tampering by a federation unless you can prove it -- that's practically libel/slander.

In his tweet he didn't say that the Skate Canada talked about the results of the competition with the judges in the background .. He said the result reflects the strength of the Canadian Federation. Big difference!

Maybe you forgot it, before and after Vancouver Patrick had many bad words on Plushy. That was really funny because Plushy was a great champion then, but Patrick was nobody in that time....

You also missed the part though where Chan actually said "He's earned his spot here. You can't teach experience. He's got what many young skaters don't have." Yes, those snarky/shady comments I don't support, but he does have a point though about Plushenko showing up to Sochi coming as a surprise - with one Olympic spot and Plushenko skating the way he did at Russian nationals, you can't imagine the Russian fed would have sent him. However it really wasn't a surprise at all considering Russian nationals actually made no difference in Plushenko's appearance in Sochi in the long run, as the Russian fed was most definitely going to send him regardless of how he did.

Probably you know Michelle Kwan also received her spot to Turin on same way as Plushy did. I didn't read any hateful comment from you because of it.. And the Russian Federation never said that the Russian champion will go to Sochi. I'm sure you know that, but what can you use against Plushy if you take note of this?

CSG, I have one problem- these are Patrick's honest words, I have no problem with it- he didn't see the whole competition as he said.. but there is a very clear opinion.. How can he say that???

And I'm happy because of his come back. I really liked his latest skating at JO and on TEB 2013. For a long time I did not like his skating, he could not convey emotions with his moves only neatly done as taught to him. I saw this development in his skating.

 

[Rissa]

By this "just fast forwarding" Patrick may be shooting himself in the foot. He's going to be in for surprise when he sees that Hanyu's programs earn PCS to match his, how judges are perfectly willing to throw high scores at Denis, and how much Javier's PCS have risen. He sounds like he's underestimating the rest of the field, and it may cost him dearly now that judges have found others to include in their favorites club, because skating skills won't save him anymore, much less his perceived superiority of the artistry of his programs.

 

[karne]

Chan really should just never open his mouth. Good lord. Working PR for this guy must be a nightmare.

Yuzuru is the judges' pet right now. Javi is getting big scores (and pfffffft, since when has Black Betty been "same old, same old"?). Denis gets big scores when he goes clean. And heck, the judges have also shown they're willing to give Joshua and Jason plenty of love in the score department when they go clean.

 

[gravy]

Probably you know Michelle Kwan also received her spot to Turin on same way as Plushy did. I didn't read any hateful comment from you because of it.. And the Russian Federation never said that the Russian champion will go to Sochi. I'm sure you know that, but what can you use against Plushy if you take note of this?

I really don't know what you're arguing about but Kwan's case is nothing like Plushenko's. Kwan went to Worlds in 2005 and helped the US earn 3 spots for Torino. Plushenko actually hasn't been to Worlds since those in Moscow in 2005 (where he withdrew after the SP) and was not 'entitled' to a spot like Kwan was. She took one of the total 3 spots and actually withdrew about 10 days before the ladies' event and Emily Hughes who finished 3rd at Nationals replaced her and competed. No harm done. Plushenko did none of that.

 

[plushyfan]

I really don't know what you're arguing about but Kwan's case is nothing like Plushenko's. Kwan went to Worlds in 2005 and helped the US earn 3 spots for Torino. Plushenko actually hasn't been to Worlds since those in Moscow in 2005 (where he withdrew after the SP) and was not 'entitled' to a spot like Kwan was. She took one of the total 3 spots and actually withdrew about 10 days before the ladies' event and Emily Hughes who finished 3rd at Nationals replaced her and competed. No harm done. Plushenko did none of that.

If I remember well Kwan had a test skate before Torino. CSG mentioned the test skate all the time.

 

[Meoima]

I think Patrick loves us very much, it's off season and he is willing to give us some dramas.

 

[HanDomi]

I think Patrick loves us very much, it's off season and he is willing to give us some dramas.

Well every time I want to try to like him he goes out with something like that. bleh

You can say that you want to come back and win , but what he says is just disrespectfull to other skaters.

 

[adelia]

Now that Chan's been away for a whole season, I've realized that I miss him. Well, not so much the skating but him throwing some shade. lol

 

[StitchMonkey]

Huh? It's accurate. After all, the only other skater who can get away with four+ falls and win medals is, well, Chan.

Yep, Hanyu would only get silver.

 

[Kitt]

Well every time I want to try to like him he goes out with something like that. bleh

You can say that you want to come back and win , but what he says is just disrespectfull to other skaters.

I agree with this totally. He is disrespectful. And how he can comment on other skaters when he admits he just fast forwarded to watch the jumps. HELLO - other parts of skating are now judged. And other elements are so beautiful - for one example, Yuzu's Ina Bauer. Patrick, just go away. We can do without your glorious edges!

 

[silverfoxes]

I agree with this totally. He is disrespectful. And how he can comment on other skaters when he admits he just fast forwarded to watch the jumps. HELLO - other parts of skating are now judged. And other elements are so beautiful - for one example, Yuzu's Ina Bauer. Patrick, just go away. We can do without your glorious edges!

A free skate is 4 1/2 minutes long - is his life so busy and important he couldn't sit through two whole programs? I really doubt it. Someone mentioned Trankov earlier...I never got to see a transcript of his words, but I am 100% sure he actually watched the programs he criticized (very closely, I would imagine, lol), and therefore has some room to talk, whether or not you agree with him. Honest opinions are one thing...but Patrick has no business trying to pass judgment on anyone when he admits he barely paid attention. And LOL @ him claiming Yuzuru & Javier aren't doing anything new, when he is still recycling programs himself.

 

[begin]

Both Yuzuru's and Javier's LPs were akin to programs they've done in the past (Yuzu has basically been doing the same freeprogram for 3 years now, lbr). From what I read, that's his only real criticism. I don't see him mentioning anything about messy or unclean performances, and he only says he fast forwarded the Worlds videos when going over them on YouTube or whatever (as in yes, he probably did see the routines in their entirety elsewhere).
I think the framing of his words was stupid and find he was a bit rude/condescending. However, I totally agree with the underlying meaning he was trying to convey. Frankly, this forum can always use a healthy dose of realtalk. It's high time we see substantial improvement where program components are concerned from the BOrser boys.

 

[silverfoxes]

Both Yuzuru's and Javier's LPs were akin to programs they've done in the past (Yuzu has basically been doing the same freeprogram for 3 years now, lbr). From what I read, that's his only real criticism. I don't see him mentioning anything about messy or unclean performances, and he only says he fast forwarded the Worlds videos when going over them on YouTube or whatever (as in yes, he probably did see the routines in their entirety elsewhere).
I think the framing of his words was stupid and find he was a bit rude/condescending. However, I totally agree with the underlying meaning he was trying to convey and frankly, this forum can always use a healthy dose of realtalk. It's high time we see substantial improvement where program components are concerned from the BOrser boys.

But what is Patrick doing that is new, exactly? I've never seen anyone with less self-awareness.

 

[begin]

But what is Patrick doing that is new, exactly? I've never seen anyone with less self-awareness.

Do you just find all programs with classical music the same? I was never a huge fan of Patrick but he does challenge himself. The range of transitions and choreography he uses is vast, and while I think he's not an artist by any means, he's improved his execution in these aspects by a lot. Patrick has great basics below the knee but upper body movement has never been his strength--yet his programs have required more use of lines, extensions, and positions over the years. While not perfect, I'll give him credit for at least developing because the stuff he consistently tries to do is not easy.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If I remember well Kwan had a test skate before Torino. CSG mentioned the test skate all the time.

As mentioned, Kwan helped the US earn 3 spots with her performance at Worlds. Plushenko has competed at 2 Olympics without earning the spots at Worlds to get the Russian men/man there. Or put it this way -- for the 2006, 2010, and 2014 Olympics it was other Russian skaters who earned spots at the preceding Worlds that allowed Plushenko to go to the Olympics.

Not to mention, she pulled out in time to allow Emily Hughes to compete.

As with Plushenko, I thoroughly disagree with Kwan's test skate not being made available to the public, nor the opportunity given for Emily Hughes to at least have a skate-off against Kwan to prove herself worthier. For an athlete to be able to do a closed test skate and then be named to a team is absolutely deplorable and unfair, whether Kwan or Plushenko. If it was televised or made available to the public, and the skater performed well, AND the skater(s) they were booting off the team had the same opportunity to show they were worthy of the spot, THEN it would be justified. Obviously the closed test door nature of the skate is a formality so that the federation can send the skater even if they skate poorly because nobody will actually see how well/bad they skated. In 2005/2006, in the early stages of social media/YouTube, it's somewhat more understandable that Kwan's performance wasn't televised or uploaded... but in 2014, I don't see how the Russian federation could have justified the closed door nature of the skate (I'm sure no cell phones were allowed) other than to avoid backlash if Plushenko had a poor test skate and they decided to send him anyways as they had intended to do all along. The "test skate" could have had been all of them having shots of vodka on centre ice, toasting to Plushenko being the face of the Sochi games, withouth him even strapping on his skates, and everyone sorting out their story of how well he test-skated and prepared he looked, and we wouldn't have known any better.

 

[silverfoxes]

Do you just find all programs with classical music the same? I was never a huge fan of Patrick but he does challenge himself. The range of transitions and choreography he uses is vast, and while I think he's not an artist by any means, he's improved his execution in these aspects by a lot. Patrick has great basics below the knee but upper body movement has never been his strength--yet his programs have required more use of lines, extensions, and positions over the years. While not perfect, I'll give him credit for at least developing because the stuff he consistently tries to do is not easy.

No, but he has recycled programs many a time, and is doing so this season as well, even as he blathers on about wanting to challenge himself with new styles. And Yuzuru & Javier have improved as well, doing transitions that most of the competition wouldn't attempt at all. But he wouldn't know that and can't comment on their programs with any authority, because he only watched their jumps.

 

[StitchMonkey]

The funny thing is CanadianSkaterGuy showing the test might actually help them. I suspect Plushenko did very well in his as did Michelle, they are both professionals, so I suspect they were able to handle the more low key event. It could actually help justify their decision.

I felt the need to dig up Patrick's old 2012 World's free skate. The reaction of the Eurosport announcers to his score is just priceless.

https://youtu.be/QuJfGH4bFTM?t=461

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Recycled is a bit of a loose term... yes, he's skated to the same music for multiple seasons but his Four Seasons from 2006-2008 was completely different from his 2014 Four Seasons. Even his POTO's had choreography re-arranged, and certainly greater difficulty incorporated from one year to the next.

However, his comments about Javier doing the same old are uncalled for. I get that Javi consistently has this "comedy" shtick in his LPs, but his Black Betty program was unique and the program of the season, IMO. To me, Hanyu's LPs were pretty similar from last year and this year, but his SP was a wonderful change and definitely an artistic development (and a stark contrast from his PW SP). Same with Ten's LP - definitely an improvement and new for him.

For Javi, I would like to see him skate to something more classical with subtlety and nuance - the comedy thing is entertaining (and his style) but sometimes I feel he uses it as a crutch to hide moments of sloppiness or where he's out of control.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The funny thing is CanadianSkaterGuy showing the test might actually help them. I suspect Plushenko did very well in his as did Michelle, they are both professionals, so I suspect they were able to handle the more low key event. It could actually help justify their decision.

I felt the need to dig up Patrick's old 2012 World's free skate. The reaction of the Eurosport announcers to his score is just priceless.

https://youtu.be/QuJfGH4bFTM?t=461

Yeah, I'm okay with that! Show the test skate! Don't be sketchy about it. These are Olympic spots and skaters are being denied the experience when they don't even get to see how the other skater did or have a chance to compete against them.

The biggest thing that irked me about Kovtun and Voronov not getting to go instead of Plushenko was that they didn't even get an opportunity to compete for the spot because Plu avoided Euros. It makes no sense that Kovtun beating Plushenko at Nationals was negated by his Euros performance, and Voronov skates amazing at Euros but is out of consideration because he lost to Plushenko at Nationals (and that itself was dubious, given Plushenko's abysmal FS). If Plu went to Euros and beat Voronov/Kovtun, or if they had an aired test skate (or at least allow people to film it and post it) with Voronov/Kovtun/Plushenko all competing for the spot, I would have been 100% okay with it.