Elizaveta Tuktamysheva

[Tutto]

Clarification from Mishin on what've seen:

http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/1031099817.html

''In Igora Liza skated a version of ex program to the music combining a classical performance of Ibsen’s opera Peer Gynt and vocals of our great opera diva Anna Netrebko. We think that this can be interesting as we want to present a totally different image in this season programs.
Last season when we worked on the Oriental program it was a version of ex number too but then it developed into the lp. That’s why we are trying a few scenarios now. We have a blues, a free genre where Liza is dancing in the retro style, and Peer Gynt. Thus 3-4 versions are being considered.''

 

[Lipea]

Clarification from Mishin on what've seen:
http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s...031099817.html

''In Igora Liza skated a version of exp program to the music combining a classical performance of Ibsen’s opera Peer Gynt and vocals of our great opera diva Anna Netrebko. We think that this can be interesting as we want to present a totally different image in this season programs.
Last season when we worked on the Oriental program it was a version of exp number too but then it developed into the lp. That’s why we are trying a few scenarios now. We have a blues, a free genre where Liza is dancing in the retro style, and Peer Gynt. Thus 3-4 versions are considered.''

The link for some reason does not open. Here is, I suppose, the same article from the different website: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20150706/844078203.html

It looks like Mishin's words need some correction. Ibsen/Grieg "Peer Gynt" was originally a play from which Grieg set the famous suite, in two subsets. It was not an opera. In addition it is also incorrect to say "Ibsen's opera" because Ibsen was a writer of the play, not a composer, and they obviously deal with music from the suite, not with the literature. I suspected it was Netrebko, and although I'm not at all a fan of her, she sounded marvelous in this performance.

I do think that they will use this program as LP. What is "a free genre where Liza is dancing in the retro style"? Is it "Get low" number???

 

[Tutto]

The link for some reason does not open. Here is, I suppose, the same article from the different website: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20150706/844078203.html

It looks like Mishin's words need some correction. Ibsen/Grieg "Peer Gynt" was originally a play from which Grieg set the famous suite, in two subsets. It was not an opera. In addition it is also incorrect to say "Ibsen's opera" because Ibsen was a writer of the play, not a composer, and they obviously deal with music from the suite, not with the literature. I suspected it was Netrebko, and although I'm not at all a fan of her, she sounded marvelous in this performance.

I do think that they will use this program as LP. What is "a free genre where Liza is dancing in the retro style"? Is it "Get low" number???

I re-set the link, I think there was a technical issue with the website today, but it is working now. I could not help laughing at 'Ibsen's opera', if Mishin doesn't know at least journalists should be able to correct such obvious gaffe!
The question remains where is Lambiel's choreo? He supposedly had already done both the short & long and now it appears that there are no programs yet just sketches of operas & retro dancing...

 

[Sugarpova]

^ maybe they will be back with Stephane & work more on the programm(s)?? right now its def hard to see what he brought...


btw its just bizarre to see that much venom towards a programm that isnt even 10% ready...talking about the general program obviously...some people seem to be threatened that their faves will lose to Liza ...

 

[Meoima]

I re-set the link, I think there was a technical issue with the website today, but it is working now. I could not help laughing at 'Ibsen's opera', if Mishin doesn't know at least journalists should be able to correct such obvious gaffe!
The question remains where is Lambiel's choreo? He supposedly had already done both the short & long and now it appears that there are no programs yet just sketches of operas & retro dancing...

Looking back at other programs done by Lambiel I am afraid it's not.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

btw its just bizarre to see that much venom towards a programm that isnt even 10% ready...talking about the general program obviously...some people seem to be threatened that their faves will lose to Liza ...

Maybe. I think though saying that people are jealous of Liza doesn't change the fact that something feels off about this program as it stands today. At least to my eyes it's a bit conflicted in its identity. Like..she wants to move in a new direction but she's taking the same roads to get there. For me the music cuts are frantic and a bit offputting. I'd rather she just skate to one song and build the program up around it instead of creating artificial changes. To me...the music seems to change while Liza's interpretation doesn't really. It's an odd contrast at times.

As I said in another thread. I don't know why she wants to change anything after last season's success. There is something to be said of just being yourself and playing to your strengths. Then again...maybe she has a vision that hasn't been realized yet or one that people like myself are slow to see.

Is she going to do 3a all season? Maybe just in the SP and occasionally in the FS when needed like after a fall or something?

 

[silverfoxes]

^ maybe they will be back with Stephane & work more on the programm(s)?? right now its def hard to see what he brought...


btw its just bizarre to see that much venom towards a programm that isnt even 10% ready...talking about the general program obviously...some people seem to be threatened that their faves will lose to Liza ...

Yeah, it's so over the top. A trial skate is barely going to resemble the final product. I guess Liza was due for some backlash because of her incredible success, and it's the off season, so some people are just bored and like to nitpick. Idle hands and all that...

 

[StitchMonkey]

Does anyone else keep expecting the program to break into this half way through?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2246g7AzbMc&feature=youtu.be&t=211

And does anyone else think it might fit better and actually work

 

[jg2000]

Is she going to do 3a all season? Maybe just in the SP and occasionally in the FS when needed like after a fall or something?

Pretty sure she's planning one in the sp and two in the fs. I don't think she'll back away; she seems to like a good challenge, even if she could win with just one or two.

 

[Tutto]

Maybe. I think though saying that people are jealous of Liza doesn't change the fact that something feels off about this program as it stands today. At least to my eyes it's a bit conflicted in its identity. Like..she wants to move in a new direction but she's taking the same roads to get there. For me the music cuts are frantic and a bit offputting. I'd rather she just skate to one song and build the program up around it instead of creating artificial changes. To me...the music seems to change while Liza's interpretation doesn't really. It's an odd contrast at times.

As I said in another thread. I don't know why she wants to change anything after last season's success. There is something to be said of just being yourself and playing to your strengths. Then again...maybe she has a vision that hasn't been realized yet or one that people like myself are slow to see.

Is she going to do 3a all season? Maybe just in the SP and occasionally in the FS when needed like after a fall or something?

It's been said that she will do a 3A in the SP and two 3As in the LP. That partly answers your other question too - that is the direction they are going to and that is the vision. With that layout I think the choreo as such fades into background don't you think?

I think Liza was criticised in the past for being a one note skater, that's why they are trying at least to show the intention for a change of direction, but with Mishin I think it will always remain a talk. I hope he is not economising on Liza by not getting a proper choreographer (with Lambiel I think it is a bit of case of the exchange of services) after all she is a World Champion!

Quote Originally Posted by Sugarpova View Post
btw its just bizarre to see that much venom towards a programm that isnt even 10% ready...talking about the general program obviously...some people seem to be threatened that their faves will lose to Liza ..

Quite honestly I didn't notice that much venom, more like a concern and disappointment with how the program turned out so far. There is a lot more attention to what Liza is doing than before but it is only natural she is a reigning WC.

 

[sabinfire]

Quite honestly I didn't notice that much venom, more like a concern and disappointment with how the program turned out so far. There is a lot more attention to what Liza is doing than before but it is only natural she is a reigning WC.

Yep, Liza is no longer the surprise comeback girl. Now it's more like, 'what have you done for me lately?' and 'bar raised -- ::yawn:: -- what else you got?'

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Yep, Liza is no longer the surprise comeback girl. Now it's more like, 'what have you done for me lately?' and 'bar raised -- ::yawn:: -- what else you got?'

But it's Liza and Mishin who were the first talking about changing and evolving into a different direction or am I misinformed. Was that simply in reference to the EX? I like Liza the way she is and I'm not one to embrace the notion that all skaters need to be dynamic and reinvent themselves season after season. Kind of a do what you do better than anyone else ever could mentality.

 

[Sorrento]

The new interview from Mishin: http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/821502?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed He speaks both about Liza and Plushy.

 

[Spiral]

Quite honestly I didn't notice that much venom, more like a concern and disappointment with how the program turned out so far. There is a lot more attention to what Liza is doing than before but it is only natural she is a reigning WC.

Exactly! But to dedicated fans any non-admiring reaction probably feels like venom. I know I can feel that way about skaters for whom I'm particularly anxious to succeed. With Liza, I generally enjoy her skating and wish her all the best, and that's where my reaction to her proposed new program came from, but if she doesn't win everything next season I won't be upset, as long as she skates well and is successful in general. I have too many favorites in ladies singles to specifically wish all the victories to go to one person. I mean it'll be fine with me if it turns out that way, but fine as well if it'll be more of an even playing field. I just wish all my favorite ladies to have impressive, memorable programs and have a good season in general. But with people whom I do wish to win everything I can be touchy-feely too, so I can understand some fans' reaction to most members' reaction.

But it's Liza and Mishin who were the first talking about changing and evolving into a different direction or am I misinformed. Was that simply in reference to the EX? I like Liza the way she is and I'm not one to embrace the notion that all skaters need to be dynamic and reinvent themselves season after season. Kind of a do what you do better than anyone else ever could mentality.

I couldn't agree with you more, but unfortunately she was criticized a lot on Russian forums (and not just this year) for always skating to similar music. I don't know, though, if it was this that prompted her desire to change or not. Maybe there was similar criticism from some professional quarters (judges, skating officials, other respected people in the field)? Or maybe she herself wanted to try something new and felt that after such a successful season she was secure enough to experiment? But, yes, I also think that in sport one should stick to what one does better than anyone else (if one is lucky enough to be outstanding in something). It's good to try different things, as long as one can be really good at these other things. I just hope that in the end she has two classy programs that suit her, be that in the tried and true style or a bit different. (Maybe she shouldn't have tried a complete make-over after focusing on a particular style her whole career and chosen something not quite the same, but not radically different either?)

 

[adelia]

You didn't think it was OTT when some posters accused her of waving her arms around like an octopus and "whoring" herself on the ice while "giving a false impression that she is sexually available to the judges"? Okay. I guess we just have different standards as to what is appropriate talk.

 

[Spiral]

You didn't think it was OTT when some posters accused her of waving her arms around like an octopus and "whoring" herself on the ice while "giving a false impression that she is sexually available to the judges"? Okay. I guess we just have different standards as to what is appropriate talk.

Actually that is OTT IMO too, but this was an exceptional comment, and it appeared after the first post about people being mean and harsh to Liza. The vast majority of critical comments were well-meaning IMO, but as I said, I can well understand where the sensitivity comes from.

 

[LRK]

Actually, if you read the thread, the criticism just goes on, and on, and on, for page after page after page. Just sit down and read all those pages in one go - it's pretty relentless. Everyone seems to feel the need to pile on. And this for an early season show at some training camp. It may be normal for this forum, yes - that is, with some skaters, who can do no right, some others are far more likely to get the benefit of the doubt (oh, it's early, but it's promising!) And that is on top of everything else elsewhere on the forum. Apparently she is going to turn into a nervous wreck and fall on her face all over the place. It's not just one post or two in isolation - it's the added effect.

And if some can't see it, then so be it. But it would be nice if we were allowed to be fans of Liza here on her own fan thread. And no, this does not mean we can't discuss her - but I hardly see anything positive here any more. It's all Doom & Gloom.

 

[Sweet Dream]

Actually that is OTT IMO too, but this was an exceptional comment, and it appeared after the first post about people being mean and harsh to Liza. The vast majority of critical comments were well-meaning IMO, but as I said, I can well understand where the sensitivity comes from.

I do agree that Liza has much room for improvement in skating. As a reigning WC, it goes without saying that FS lovers do have much higher expectation of her new programs than ever before, but it is pointless to overly criticize a work in process at this stage. I have full confidence in the ongoing training plan of her and Mishin, because both are world class skater and coach, who are making great efforts to completely change the landscape of ladies skating and are moving closer to their aim step by step.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Actually, if you read the thread, the criticism just goes on, and on, and on, for page after page after page. Just sit down and read all those pages in one go - it's pretty relentless. Everyone seems to feel the need to pile on. And this for an early season show at some training camp. It may be normal for this forum, yes - that is, with some skaters, who can do no right, some others are far more likely to get the benefit of the doubt (oh, it's early, but it's promising!) And that is on top of everything else elsewhere on the forum. Apparently she is going to turn into a nervous wreck and fall on her face all over the place. It's not just one post or two in isolation - it's the added effect.

And if some can't see it, then so be it. But it would be nice if we were allowed to be fans of Liza here on her own fan thread. And no, this does not mean we can't discuss her - but I hardly see anything positive here any more. It's all Doom & Gloom.

I do apologize if you feel my concerns(and subsequent fan thread postings) are a bit doom and gloom. I still remain positive about what will eventually be her FS and was probably more so in the more "public" thread. I was just thinking I'd get a more real reaction in this thread than from the other one where people were basically hurling gas on a fire. In that thread I mentioned that I don't think Liza's skating can be fully realized without the jumps. It's so much of her strength and personally I think they give her a burst of power that excels her to a different level.

I have to be honest though and say I do sense like she's feeling pressure to be something bigger going forward. I think Mishin will handle this easy enough. He's pretty strong in that aspect I imagine. My whole thing is...I don't think it's necessary. Liza just needs to focus on Liza and deliver what she feels is right. So be it if it is off putting to others or so be it if it's the same feel as last year.

No need for replies on this but isn't it nice that they've moved on from all the weight talk that was just ridiculous before. Last year at this time her fan thread and other ones about her were littered with that garbage. End rant!

 

[xibsuarz]

I do apologize if you feel my concerns(and subsequent fan thread postings) are a bit doom and gloom. I still remain positive about what will eventually be her FS and was probably more so in the more "public" thread. I was just thinking I'd get a more real reaction in this thread than from the other one where people were basically hurling gas on a fire. In that thread I mentioned that I don't think Liza's skating can be fully realized without the jumps. It's so much of her strength and personally I think they give her a burst of power that excels her to a different level.

I have to be honest though and say I do sense like she's feeling pressure to be something bigger going forward. I think Mishin will handle this easy enough. He's pretty strong in that aspect I imagine. My whole thing is...I don't think it's necessary. Liza just needs to focus on Liza and deliver what she feels is right. So be it if it is off putting to others or so be it if it's the same feel as last year.

No need for replies on this but isn't it nice that they've moved on from all the weight talk that was just ridiculous before. Last year at this time her fan thread and other ones about her were littered with that garbage. End rant!

I agree with everything you've said. Liza's forte are her jumps, powerful with superb technique. They're a vital part of her routines as they're so great, so I've decided to wait until I see the fully-developed program to make an opinion. I also think she is now under the World Champion pressure and people have higher expectations for her (though really, she's doing a 3A, why are people asking for so much more?), but I felt like she's one to cope well with it (based on last season). And of course, Mishin is not someone to yield to the pressure either. I trust they'll make the right choice for her.