The role and influence of gender traits in Figure Skating

[el henry]

De gustibus non est disputandum. I'd rather watch a great tap routine by say The Mills Brothers over Swan Lake any day of the week. Don't mistake questions of personal taste for "objective beauty." One person's "powerful but rough" is another person's "dynamic and exuberant."

As would I. I would love to see Jason or Misha skate to this Mills Bros. classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8myK93FqbYc

and I would find it beautiful.

 

[Mathman]

Here's Joannie Rochette being feminin

instagram.com/p/5lP6SgIlYc/?hl=hi

 

[WeakAnkles]

As would I. I would love to see Jason or Misha skate to this Mills Bros. classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8myK93FqbYc

and I would find it beautiful.

Yay! A Mills Brothers fan. I always preferred them to the Ink Spots.

You want 'beautiful dancing," there's always the Nicholas Brothers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNKRm6H-qOU

But I guess some people would consider them "rough"...

 

[charmblade]

I find it very odd that so many people find lady to be a derogatory term.

I'm a young woman in my 20s who hangs out with a crowd who is generally pretty hip and very pro-feminist and we all use the term lady all the time. I have friends in other states who also use the term as a compliment so I don't think it's particular to my friend group in my city either. I think most of us look at it as a way to take a word that is generally considered feminine and dainty and to embrace it and celebrate that we are women and there's nothing wrong with that. Most of my friends will refer to groups of young women as ladies and nobody bats an eye at this. I feel like most of my friends on Facebook, in different states, and in some pretty varied social groups, use the word lady frequently. So maybe it's making a bit of a cultural resurgence with women in their 20s? I would never be offended by being called a lady.

 

[dorispulaski]

It must be a generational thing. I am just the opposite. Any mature female person is automatically a "lady." Especially any lady who is older than I am.



To me, that language is patronizing. Like saying there is the real football team, and then there is the Powder Puff team.

By the way, in June of this year the University of Tennessee officially changed the name of all of their women's sports teams from the "University of Tennessee Lady Volunteers" to the "University of Tennessee Volunteers Women's Team."

There was a huge outcry from alums and the public. The State Legislature jumped heatedly into the dispute. The University was forced to compromise. Now all of their women's sports team are the "Tennessee Volunteer's Women's Team," except the basketball team, who are the "Lady Vols."

(Their chief rival, the "University of Connecticut Huskies" is still affectionately known as the "Nappy-head Ho's.")

Nonsense. They are known as the Lady Huskies (or the Husky *******, the appropriate name for female huskies)

The Nappy Headed Hos are from Rutgers.

Meanwhile, "ladies" tends to remind me of movie marine drill sergeant Highway of Heartbreak Ridge and Hartmann of Full Metal Jacket, both of whom called recruits " ladies." And yes, it was pejorative.

Their alternative word for recruits was "maggots".

 

[begin]

I find it very odd that so many people find lady to be a derogatory term.

I'm a young woman in my 20s who hangs out with a crowd who is generally pretty hip and very pro-feminist and we all use the term lady all the time. I have friends in other states who also use the term as a compliment so I don't think it's particular to my friend group in my city either. I think most of us look at it as a way to take a word that is generally considered feminine and dainty and to embrace it and celebrate that we are women and there's nothing wrong with that. Most of my friends will refer to groups of young women as ladies and nobody bats an eye at this. I feel like most of my friends on Facebook, in different states, and in some pretty varied social groups, use the word lady frequently. So maybe it's making a bit of a cultural resurgence with women in their 20s? I would never be offended by being called a lady.

I haven't read the entire thread yet but the problem lies in how "lady" is specific to certain narrow gender traits, therefore denoting the entire women's discipline as "ladies' singles" (as opposed to using "women" to correspond with "men's singles") is questionable. Semantics matter imo. In fact I don't think any other Olympic event uses "ladies" to indicate gender.

 

[ice coverage]

... (Their chief rival, the "University of Connecticut Huskies" is still affectionately known as the "Nappy-head Ho's.")

Nonsense. ...

The Nappy Headed Hos are from Rutgers....

What the heck!?!?! Affectionately??? NO, NO, NO.
I frankly am APPALLED that the casual references to N.H.H. in this thread fail to note how the Rutgers women's team felt about the racial slur from Imus.

(emphases added below)
"I would like to express our team's great hurt, anger and disgust toward the words of Mr. Don Imus," Carson [captain of the Rutgers women's team] said. "We are highly angered at his remarks but deeply saddened with the racial characterization they entailed." ...
"Our moment was taken away -- our moment to celebrate our success, our moment to realize how far we had come, both on and off the court, as young women," said sophomore forward Heather Zurich. "We were stripped of this moment by degrading comments made by Mr. Imus last Wednesday. What hurts the most about this situation is that Mr. Imus knows not one of us personally."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/10/imus.rutgers/index.html?eref=yahoo​

A huge public outcry ensued after Imus used the phrase, and he initially was suspended and soon was fired for his highly offensive choice of words.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-fires-don-imus-over-racial-slur/​

The name of the Rutgers women's team used to be Lady Scarlet Knights.
I think it now is simply Scarlet Knights.

 

[charmblade]

I haven't read the entire thread yet but the problem lies in how "lady" is specific to certain narrow gender traits, therefore denoting the entire women's discipline as "ladies' singles" (as opposed to using "women" to correspond with "men's singles") is questionable. Semantics matter imo. In fact I don't think any other Olympic event uses "ladies" to indicate gender.

Oh, I know, I'm not saying that there's not a problem with using the word ladies for an athletic competition, I can definitely see how it should be "Men" and "Women", I was more musing that I'm surprised that so many people think of the term in general as negative.

 

[Mathman]

What the heck!?!?! Affectionately??? NO, NO, NO.

I frankly am APPALLED that the casual references to N.H.H. in this thread fail to note how the Rutgers women's team felt about the racial slur from Imus….

You are right. I am wrong. I sincerely and humbly apologize to you and especially to the Rutger's athletes.

 

[ice coverage]

You are right. I am wrong. I sincerely and humbly apologize to you and especially to the Rutger's athletes.

It's not about me, but thank you for the apology to the Rutgers women, MM. Much appreciated.

 

[usethis2]

I agree. And in a similar vein, one of the most ridiculous charges laid upon female skaters is that they are emotionless and cold because they do not smile - whether or not the music and choreography they are skating to call for smiles. I never hear such criticism when the skater is a man. A ridiculous double standard, IMO.

Well, I disagree. There are ways to express emotion without smiling, and I think both men and ladies are guilty of forgetting that. But there are performances I consider emotionless simply because they are.

What is it that you are disagreeing with? That there is a double standard, or that such a double standard is ridiculous (thus you view different standards as justified)? What you said after "I disagree" is a non sequitor. I did not say that there is no way to express emotion without smiling. I actually prefer that. But that is not what I said in my previous post.

 

[moriel]

I know people will throw stones at me, but my 5 cents
Men are able to perform more demanding elements (even without quads, while the ladies who can do a decent 3A can be counted on fingers, 3A is pretty much a must do element for the top men). While both genders are able to present us beautiful skating equally, and i equally watch them for beautiful skating, i do expect men to show more technically demanding programs, and also watch them for the sole purpose of seeing some crazy jumps.

 

[Alex D]

Oh, I know, I'm not saying that there's not a problem with using the word ladies for an athletic competition, I can definitely see how it should be "Men" and "Women", I was more musing that I'm surprised that so many people think of the term in general as negative.

Lady is actually a common name for teenagers, young women in Columbia. There is a Lady playing in the Columbian football / soccer team and she is amazing, great skills - she even won the player of the match award in Canada this year when they won vs. France.

Their parents btw. gave her that name because of Lady Diana

In FS the term Lady is probably used to describe elegance and charisma. Keep in mind, when the FS society first allowed women to skate, then they were usually a bit "older" so to speak and they were forced to wear elegant dresses. The athletic "idea" came much later I think.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Lady is actually a common name for teenagers, young women in Columbia. There is a Lady playing in the Columbian football / soccer team and she is amazing, great skills - she even won the player of the match award in Canada this year when they won vs. France.

Their parents btw. gave her that name because of Lady Diana

In FS the term Lady is probably used to describe elegance and charisma. Keep in mind, when the FS society first allowed women to skate, then they were usually a bit "older" so to speak and they were forced to wear elegant dresses. The athletic "idea" came much later I think.

Thank you for such a wonderful post. I'm glad others immediately think of positive things when they hear the term lady.

 

[silverfoxes]

In FS the term Lady is probably used to describe elegance and charisma. Keep in mind, when the FS society first allowed women to skate, then they were usually a bit "older" so to speak and they were forced to wear elegant dresses. The athletic "idea" came much later I think.

But that was over a century ago; we don't live in Victorian times any more and I'm quite glad about that. As you said, they were "forced" to wear elegant dresses. Male skaters don't have to fit some antiquated ideal of elegance, so why should a female skater?

 

[Botan]

But that was over a century ago; we don't live in Victorian times any more and I'm quite glad about that. As you said, they were "forced" to wear elegant dresses. Male skaters don't have to fit some antiquated ideal of elegance, so why should a female skater?

Men are also forced to fit certain ideals of elegance, just like the ladies. None of the " butch " skaters would ever receive marks as high for choreo and interpretation as the more elegant or " feminine " skaters like Hanyu or Chan ( with Fernandez being somwhere inbetween ).
The judges do have a preference for those skaters and these ideals are just as antiquated.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Men are also forced to fit certain ideals of elegance, just like the ladies. None of the " butch " skaters would ever receive marks as high for choreo and interpretation as the more elegant or " feminine " skaters like Hanyu or Chan ( with Fernandez being somwhere inbetween ).
The judges do have a preference for those skaters and these ideals are just as antiquated.

:yes::thumbsup::yes:

 

[humbaba]

I know people will throw stones at me, but my 5 cents
Men are able to perform more demanding elements (even without quads, while the ladies who can do a decent 3A can be counted on fingers, 3A is pretty much a must do element for the top men).

Well, it depends on which elements you're talking about. There are some that, generally speaking, women perform better than men. You can also count on fingers the number of men who can do a decent Biellman or layback spin, which are must do elements for top female skaters.

 

[silverfoxes]

Men are also forced to fit certain ideals of elegance, just like the ladies. None of the " butch " skaters would ever receive marks as high for choreo and interpretation as the more elegant or " feminine " skaters like Hanyu or Chan ( with Fernandez being somwhere inbetween ).
The judges do have a preference for those skaters and these ideals are just as antiquated.

I guess that's true, but "butch" guys can still win medals, although the current trend definitely favors more lyrical skaters (unfortunately for my taste). There is still a lot more variety in men's skating than women's. When is a "lady" ever going to skate to AC/DC or the Scorpions?

 

[WeakAnkles]

I guess that's true, but "butch" guys can still win medals, although the current trend definitely favors more lyrical skaters (unfortunately for my taste). There is still a lot more variety in men's skating than women's. When is a "lady" ever going to skate to AC/DC or the Scorpions?

Maybe if it was a string quartet arrangement...