Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season | Page 226 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

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Lambari said:
YAAAAAAAS. :cool: Even if Yuzuru's is at core unpredictable some patterns always repeat, slow start of the season but still a much better showing at the FS than previous years. If this is his first then I guess it can only get better by GPF and Worlds, just compare his skate here with Skate Canada 2013. He improved so much within those 2 years and it's impossible to not acknowledge that even if some people still do When I saw previous comments about his performance before I watched it I was thinking that it was a complete jumpfest and "lol which choreo" plus a complete death at the end but he actually handled way better than what I expected I swear some people makes it seem like Yuzuru is some Kovtun sometimes, I can't. Of course not top quality on the elements but I enjoyed a lot. Even If I'm still bummed about the changes at the step sequence, the stare at the judges at the end of it is my everything, I live for his fierce. :laugh: I had slight a feeling that he was ready to kill a man when I saw his face at the K&C and him pissed of at the practice. I feel quite stupid for worrying a bit, he always sort himself out.

So let's list the amount of patterns that repeated :
1) Slow start at the season, hopefully enough for a GPF spot thus far
2) THE LUTZ, WHY. I can't. Someone fix his lutz asap.
3) Chiddy winning his first GP
4) Fierce comeback from the ashes from Yuzuru
5) A bit dead by the end of FS, diva-esque ending with hair flip and serial killer eyes. :laugh2:

Now my wish is that he could show the same amount of quality that he can show on practices, it's quite frustrating that the best of him can only be seen outside of the spotlights, while his FS performance are most of the times quite labored, even though he did a really great job. The real ease and brilliance of his skating can only be seen at his SP and at practices for now, the day that Yuzuru will be able to translate that to a FS it will make all the difference. If he wants the most ambitious program of the world he needs to own it, and I don't want to see it only at his face (he clearly is great in this aspect) I want to see the control coming from his body. This is Patrick's clear advantage over him. Competitions are a beast

I don't get why some fans think that Yuzuru was underscored, how could he deserve 9s at PCS when he was clearly losing steam at the end and didn't perform to his maximum yet? I love Yuzuru but I think it was fair. Patrick won in some serious Yuna-esque fashion, with a GOE/PCS shower and less difficulty and I'm ok with that. Even if i'm not the biggest fan of him as a skater it's crystal clear that his quality is what gave him the win and I think that his presence will serve extremely well for Yuzuru's mentality. Yuzuru will grasp that even with his technical advantage on paper, Patrick will always have the PCS advantage and quality will always win over quantity, it doesn't matter how much points you have on paper. This will force Yuzuru to strive for more clean performances and polish even more his skating, as well as Yuzuru's TES poweress will push Patrick to increase his 3A consistency and implement permanently the 2nd quad at the free.

I'm heartbroken for Dice though, it must be hard to know that even skating pratically 2 clean programs you can't even touch a flawed Patrick and Yuzuru. But it's life, I get his scores, still heartbreaking.

And the mic at the K&C is fascinating, it should be there in every competition.
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I do think he was underscored, but that was happened when you skate so early in the last group, I´m sure if he was 3rd or 4th in to the group he would have had a couple of points more. But that´s ok, it was Yuzuru´s own undoing in the short, here is hoping he gets "revenge" in all other events in the season, specially because I want this two programs clean and nailed, because they are gorgeous...

Edit, to add.

I think Daisuke should change his music, I like piano music, classic and contemporanea, but I´m having a hard time watching his program without tunning out, and it kinds of meade me feel guilty because I know he is giving everything he can, but his music just isn´t doing it for me
 
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I must say that we're in for a threat if this season goes similar to 2013-2014 with Yuzuru staying healthy and SEIMEI improves with each outing. The biggest of the criticisms I've seen about Yuzuru's FS thus far are clearly things that he isn't showing at competition because of the focus in the jumps and that we've seen much better skated at practices, criticisms about the choreography etc. So by the GPF things will ge interesting, I want to see Patrick, Yuzuru and Shoma there. :cool:

cruzceleste said:
I do think he was underscored, but that was happened when you skate so early in the last group, I´m sure if he was 3rd or 4th in to the group he would have had a couple of points more. But that´s ok, it was Yuzuru´s own undoing in the short, here is hoping he gets "revenge" in all other events in the season, specially because I want this two programs clean and nailed, because they are gorgeous...

Edit, to add.

I think Daisuke should change his music, I like piano music, classic and contemporanea, but I´m having a hard time watching his program without tunning out, and it kinds of meade me feel guilty because I know he is giving everything he can, but his music just isn´t doing it for me
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I don't think there's much factor about him skating earlier, he's still OlyChamp and Worls medalist so if you're talking about reputation, skating first doesn't change that much in my opinion, just compare his PCS gap to a skater like Adam Rippon who skated after or Murakami who skated last and still got less PCS, yes I think their PCS should be less than due to SS, speed and TR difference primarly but you get my point. Probably your question is "Why is he getting lower PCS now if we've seen him getting higher PCS with similar if not worse performances?" so I understand your confusion but what I meant is that if we stand by what PCS should mark, which are SS, CH, IN, TR and PE I'm fine with his PCS and I think he deserves that at this point because his performance execution and speed suffered quite a bit at the end.
 
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Lambari said:
I must say that we're in for a threat if this season goes similar to 2013-2014 with Yuzuru staying healthy and SEIMEI improves with each outing. The biggest of the criticisms I've seen about Yuzuru's FS thus far are clearly things that he isn't showing at competition because of the focus in the jumps and that we've seen much better skated at practices, criticisms about the choreography etc.
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I repeat again, in the practice he didn't do full run through so of course his jump quality in practice was better than in competition.
And those who keep saying Yuzuru has "no choreography" or "no transitions" or "empty program" should be remarked as "biased hater" because you can't say things don't exist when they're actually there. You can't say the moon doesn't exist unless you're delusional or blind. They have all the rights to say Seimei is not interesting choreography, that they don't like it, not their taste etc, but saying "no choreography/transitions" is simply shooting into their own foot.

I don't think there's much factor about him skating earlier, he's still OlyChamp and Worls medalist so if you're talking about reputation, skating first doesn't change that much in my opinion, just compare his PCS gap to a skater like Adam Rippon who skated after or Murakami who skated last and still got less PCS, yes I think their PCS should be less than due to SS, speed and TR difference primarly but you get my point. Probably your question is "Why is he getting lower PCS now if we've seen him getting higher PCS with similar if not worse performances?" so I understand your confusion but what I meant is that if we stand by what PCS should mark, which are SS, CH, IN, TR and PE I'm fine with his PCS and I think he deserves that at this point because his performance execution and speed suffered quite a bit at the end.
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Compare to the difficult layout he has done without tons of transitions, his PCS was underscored a bit. I don't think he should win. Silver is right for him. But the PCS is too tight for all the craziness he has put out there on the ice. And I could send you links of Italian FS discussion on Facebook to see how the vast majority of the, think that Yuzuru got too tight PCS. And let's not even mentioned the Russian. Plushy has just said the same on newspaper.
 
Meoima said:
I repeat again, in the practice he didn't do full run through so of course his jump quality in practice was better than in competition.
And those who keep saying Yuzuru has "no choreography" or "no transitions" or "empty program" should be remarked as "biased hater" because you can't say things don't exist when they're actually there. You can't say the moon doesn't exist unless you're delusional or blind. They have all the rights to say Seimei is not interesting choreography, that they don't like it, not their taste etc, but saying "no choreography/transitions" is simply shooting into their own foot.
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Of course, Meoima, I know that he skipped parts of his FS, I watched his practice several times as I've already stated (I love them) but I expect that he does full run throughs at the Cricket Club when he's not saving the energy for the competition, or else there's no much point in training a program that you never condition yourself to do completely. And for me the ideal would be the practice reflecting the competition as much as possible of course , this is what every skater aims too. Is it delusional to think so? Maybe, but I believe Yuzuru is thriving for perfection as he always do even if it seems almost impossible, so I have high expectations for his FS and as a fan I prefer to gush about the amazing parts of his skating but also point the parts that can be improved. :yes:

I agree, SEIMEI has interesting choreo and I love it but I don't think we should label every person that criticizes Yuzuru as "biased hater" just like that. Several of them go overboard indeed on the criticism and saying that he has "no choreo and transitions" is false of course, I agree with you, but I was referring to some valid points that were brought about him improving the slow part of the program, highlighting his arm movements, making the steps go better with the music and I think we should take this into account too so he can show the best SEIMEI that we can possibly witness later in the season. ;)


Meoima said:
Compare to the difficult layout he has done without tons of transitions, his PCS was underscored a bit. I don't think he should win. Silver is right for him. But the PCS is too tight for all the craziness he has put out there on the ice. And I could send you links of Italian FS discussion on Facebook to see how the vast majority of the, think that Yuzuru got too tight PCS. And let's not even mentioned the Russian. Plushy has just said the same on newspaper.
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For me PCS should include not only transitions but also reflect his presentation so I'm ok with that because his presentation suffered, this is the base of my opinion, just that. We disagree of course but that's ok. Interesting also that this Italian FS discussion and Plushenko have a different opinion than mine and that's great. What is FS without different opinion and endless debates about scoring anyway? :laugh: :shrug:
 
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Lambari said:
I agree, SEIMEI has interesting choreo and I love it but I don't think we should label every person that criticices Yuzuru as "biased hater" just like that. Several of them goes overboard indeed on the criticism and saying that he has "no choreo and transitions" is false of course, I agree with you, but I was referring to some valid points that were brought about him improving the slow part of the program, highlighting his arm movements, making the steps go better with the music and I think we should take this into account too so he can show the best SEIMEI that we can possibly witness later in the season. ;)
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Some of the remarks are vastly different from the theme of the program and the music. For example when they criticized his arms movement to be "flapping around too much", it's their opinions but actually those hand movements play important part in elaborating the theme so what should he fix it? Those critics are not professional ice dancer or even professional dance, how relevant they can be? In this case I think Yuzuru should ask for the experts, not armchair judges.

For me PCS should include not only transitions but also reflect his presentation so I'm ok with that because his presentation suffered, this is the base of my opinion, just that. We disagree of course but that's ok. Interesting also that this Italian FS discussion and Plushenko have a different opinion than mine and that's great. What is FS without different opinion and endless debates about scoring anyway? :laugh: :shrug:
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Well to me his interpretation at SC is pretty much so good already, and he will only get better with it.
 
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I think there is no need to worry about anything. At the same time of season in olympic season he was just bombing all quads. he landed 3 here in first real competition attempt. He now knows he can do it, and it's time to build on that in road to GPF
 
Meoima said:
Some of the remarks are vastly different from the theme of the program and the music. For example when they criticized his arms movement to be "flapping around too much", it's their opinions but actually those hand movements play important part in elaborating the theme so what should he fix it? Those critics are not professional ice dancer or even professional dance, how relevant they can be? In this case I think Yuzuru should ask for the experts, not armchair judges.


Well to me his interpretation at SC is pretty much so good already, and he will only get better with it.
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I think when they refer to "arms flapping aroung too much" they actually refer more to his upper body movements at the step sequence that need more control etc, and how some of his hand motions need to be more strong, quick example his little arm motion right before the 4sal was less sharp at SC than at Autumn Classics, it's not the movements in itself it's how they are done, they need more emphasis ans this is nothing related to the theme of the program, this applies to any program with any theme, that's my take on that. But to be very honest I think lots of them still have a very strong image of Yuzuru as some "jump monster with no artistry" which is absolutely false so they tend to go overboard. I think his interpretation is very convincing, it's my favourite thing about him, his presentation that suffers because of tiredness, two different things.
Yuzuru will probably never be the "aesthetically flawless skater" that they want him to be although he has shown incredible improvements every year and will probably continue to do so and that's absolutely fine because Yuzuru is Yuzuru and nothing other than that. So of course I think they should stop the endless harsh rants about his presentation but the way to deal with it is not argueeing forever and shoving our opinions on them, it's just to ignore it. All skaters are different and are loved for different things and hated for others. Yuzuru and his FS program will continue to be loved by several other spectators. ;)
 
Skate order has significant impacts on human judging. This is proven by statisticians. Athletes who compete early will receive lower scores than athletes who perform later even if the athletes that perform later did the exact same thing with the exact same quality. Yuzuru has the champion status. So the impact on him is smaller than skaters who have no champion status. But judges will still hold his score down in order to save room for others, maybe by a few points.

Patrick’s GOE at Skate Canada was almost 11 points higher than Yuzuru’s GOE and his PCS was 6 points higher. His GOE was also 6 points higher and his PCS was also 5 points higher than his own performance of the same program (with similar content) at Japan Open last year. The only justification is the Patrick was so much better than himself last year and Yuzuru yesterday. The question is how do you quantify the quality difference in a fair way. A judge cannot just casually give out 10+ GOE and 5+ PCS. The judging is only fair when the rewards and deductions are equal. Right now, the deduction for fall is only 3 points. (Fall doesn’t impact the PCS too much). So if judges give one performance 6+ GOE and 5+ PCS more than another performance, the judge is saying Patrick’s Skate Canada performance is better than his Japan Open performance even if he falls 3 times at Skate Canada. That’s how it can lead to controversial placements. So if judges want to give out fair scores, the increase in qualitative scores like GOE and PCS can’t be this big even if they believe one performance is much more superior than another clean performance of similar difficulty. The max reward for additional better quality can only be about 3 points. Similarly, Patrick’s LP score suggests even if he falls and get 3 point deduction, he would still score higher than Yuzuru who also had a fall in a much more difficult program (Yuzuru’s BV is almost 14 points higher than Patrick’s BV). So, I do think there is significant inflation in Patrick’s score due to him skating at home.

Judge no.3 is clearly against Yuzuru. I can’t believe any rational judge would give Yuzuru that kind of GOE and PCS. That judge gave Yuzuru 7’s for most components. Those are the same kind of scores Nam received from all judges.
 
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^^ I don't think I even want him to be an easthetically flawless skater. I think this might be what puts me off in Patrick Chan even when he's on: everything is too controlled, too schooled, too perfect for me to feel much. In Yuzuru there's certain rawness that I find very appealing.
 
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Moria Polonius said:
^^ I don't think I even want him to be an easthetically flawless skater. I think this might be what puts me off in Patrick Chan even when he's on: everything is too controlled, too schooled, too perfect for me to feel much. In Yuzuru there's certain rawness that I find very appealing.
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I agree completely :2thumbs: Even if I still think that he could be more controled without taking out his rawness.
 
Haven't caught up with any of the messages here, only JUST watched the men's FS and I think my heart stopped several times, but oh gosh, how brilliant was he and how amazing is that Seimei program? It makes me cry, it's so beautiful. :cry: And excuse me while I go breathe into a bag now to try and slow my heart down, because man that fs event was just too nerve-wrecking. I even did something I have NEVER done before in my life: I fast forwarded through the skates of three other skaters, because I just couldn't stand not knowing if they ended up above Yuzuru or not.
 
Meoima said:
NOOOOOOPEEE! You're my enemy from now on! :hpull: I hate that lettuce thing!
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It's a mermaid thing, not lettuce!:biggrin:

But that reminds me I must check when the Gala is on, I hope the camera angles are good this time.
 
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