- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
So the theory is based on one, just one, skater who nobody but you thinks is overmarked. lol.
:rofl2: I'd love to know your definition of over-marked. Yeah right, 94 PCS is not overmarked at all, maybe Jason deserve 100!!!
Mishin's opinion on components based on Jin
- Thread starter plushyfan
- Start date
:rofl2: I'd love to know your definition of over-marked. Yeah right, 94 PCS is not overmarked at all, maybe Jason deserve 100!!!
Friendly public service announcement: All this chatter about the trajectory of Jason's PCS or whatever could also be discussed here:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?56694-Reputation-judging-or-threshold-judging
Otherwise I don't see how Jason is the poster child of why we need to adjust the PCS/TES structure.
ETA: Or perhaps he is....at least at U.S. Nationals? Perhaps USFS should consider a system where any skater gets -10 points docked off PCS automatically for having a quadless program or a program without a rotated quad. (But fully rotated quads with falls, sure!)
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?56694-Reputation-judging-or-threshold-judging
Otherwise I don't see how Jason is the poster child of why we need to adjust the PCS/TES structure.
ETA: Or perhaps he is....at least at U.S. Nationals? Perhaps USFS should consider a system where any skater gets -10 points docked off PCS automatically for having a quadless program or a program without a rotated quad. (But fully rotated quads with falls, sure!)
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- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
If you're talking about his FS at 2014 US Nats, I absolutely don't think he was over marked. All you have to do is look at the audience reaction to see that it was the performance of a lifetime. The choreography was very difficult and he executed it beautifully with the exception of a 2ft landing on the second 3A. So yeah, I think he deserved to win the FS, and if the judges felt like 93 was appropriate then so be it.
If you're talking about 2015, I feel less strongly. But even if you conclude Jason was over marked somewhat, you still have to deal with Adam and Josh, who got almost the same PCS as Jason - Adam's was higher. I'm sure you like Adam and Josh better than you like Jason, but surely you don't think they're are as good as Hanyu and Chan? So why aren't you saying their PCS is inflated?
So this is relevant to all the Jason PCS back and forth. Gkelly, does that mean the panel at U.S. nationals (or any nationals competition need to get a slap (proverbial, of course) because their PCS varies greatly from what those skaters may receive internationally? Are they supposed to keep a mental knowledge -- as some posters seem to insist-- that a skater scored a certain figure internationally?
Is there other factors that might lead to national completions have more inflation than international ones?
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- Joined
- Jan 18, 2014
It's interesting how the interview sounds different in English and Russian. In Russian it's clearly pro-Jin but in English not so much. 
It's interesting how the interview sounds different in English and Russian. In Russian it's clearly pro-Jin but in English not so much.
Oh really? Can you explain what the message is in Russian?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
Oh i love Jason fans.. please never change! Biggest entertainment around...
oh, persons who think Jason's PCS is overmarked, I love you and I hope you keep making the same arguments that no one agrees with: best entertainment around!
Now that we are all entertained, I guess we can move on?
The sad thing is, I'm not even a Jason fan, I just don't have anything against PCS. (I will fully admit to bias where Hanyu's concerned, though.) I do have, however, something against ridiculous reasoning apparently supported entirely on overblown personal negative opinion of one skater. But if believing that it's rose-colored fan glasses talking through all the people disagreeing with you will make you feel better, go ahead.
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- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
It's interesting how the interview sounds different in English and Russian. In Russian it's clearly pro-Jin but in English not so much.
Though even in English, I was pretty sure Mishin was pro-Jin.
Though even in English, I was pretty sure Mishin was pro-Jin.
Yes, I don't see why Mishin, the coach of some of our favorite jumpers, would be against a kid who has an awesome quad lutz!!
They're not supposed to mark based on what this skater has scored in the past -- they're supposed to score what gets done on the ice that day.
They would refer to all thousands and thousands of performances they've ever seen to have an idea of what "very good" looks like compared to "good" or "superior" for any skater.
They won't have seen thousands of "superior" or "outstanding" performances even over the course of a long active judging career -- they may have only ever seen dozens or if they're lucky hundreds that deserve scores in the 9s. But if they can recognize what makes a very good performance better than a good one, they can also recognize what makes a superior performance even better than a very good one and score it accordingly.
Off the top of my head, I'd say the main reasons why we would see that would be
1) Not all national judges are international judges -- They may never have had the opportunity to see let alone judge skaters who are better than their nation's best in person -- this really is the best they have ever seen (because skating almost always looks more impressive up close than on video)
2) Historically under 6.0 national scores tended to be inflated not only for the prior reason but also on purpose, to send a message to international judges, and to the skaters themselves, that "our" skaters can contend with the best in the world -- and this thinking may persist despite the change in judging systems
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- Aug 20, 2014
I'm sorry my english is not good but I'm just wondering. Does PCS really that matter in winning under this scoring format??
According to this article, It was a strategy based not so much on artistry but on technical superiority. Nothing in the rules says the program must be an artistic masterpiece.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2014
Though even in English, I was pretty sure Mishin was pro-Jin.
I think in English it's a bit less obvious and that's why some posters assumed that Mishin was bitter about the situation. In fact he really complemented Jin and was positive about his skills and the way his teams makes use of the existing rules. It's just about the translation I guess.
In the rest of the interview that's wasn't quoted here Mishin also said that he considered PChan "the genius of the skating skills"
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
I think Nationals are somewhat more generous to their skaters to give them a boost (look at Jin's Chinese nationals scores!), so Jason's national scores are on the higher side. However, I think at international events, these scores won't matter as much and judges will decide based on the circumstances of the competition. The US Nationals did help to boost Jason over the other American skaters though, I thought Adam Rippon skated better at both SP and FS. It could be because Jason is a more consistent athlete and connects better with the audience.
Jason's PCS is higher than his TES due to his weakness in jumps, in particular the more difficult quads and 3A. This doesn't detract from the quality of his skating, but without a great jump/combo, he won't be able to compete with skaters like Shoma who are bringing both to the table, not to mention Patrick, Denis, Javier and Yuzuru.
Personally, I like watching different skaters bringing their different "game" to the table, it makes it far more enjoyable. I think Jason is mentioned here as the other side of the coin to Jin's high TES and dismal PCS, both skaters appear to lie at the extremes of the TES-PCS spectrum, both face the same challenges of having to develop their respective weaknesses in order to have a shot at the podium.
My only concern with Jason is that he needs to find a better balance in his expressiveness, perhaps less cuteness and more sophistication. I was wowed by his "Prince" SP, I watched that over and over, that showed off much more of his skills and unique skating talent than his more recent forays.
Jason's PCS is higher than his TES due to his weakness in jumps, in particular the more difficult quads and 3A. This doesn't detract from the quality of his skating, but without a great jump/combo, he won't be able to compete with skaters like Shoma who are bringing both to the table, not to mention Patrick, Denis, Javier and Yuzuru.
Personally, I like watching different skaters bringing their different "game" to the table, it makes it far more enjoyable. I think Jason is mentioned here as the other side of the coin to Jin's high TES and dismal PCS, both skaters appear to lie at the extremes of the TES-PCS spectrum, both face the same challenges of having to develop their respective weaknesses in order to have a shot at the podium.
My only concern with Jason is that he needs to find a better balance in his expressiveness, perhaps less cuteness and more sophistication. I was wowed by his "Prince" SP, I watched that over and over, that showed off much more of his skills and unique skating talent than his more recent forays.
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Wait i dont get it... Are you complaining about inflation in general or about certain skaters getting more inflation than others?
Because when i look at USA nationals, not just Jason, but everybody get scores way above what they would get anywhere else.
2014 Nationals
Max Aaron - 259.19 vs 240.22 at US Classic. His best international score outside North America was 227.51 at WTT (which was also giving scores like candy)
Joshua Farris - 267.98 vs 260.01 at 4cc - couldnt find protocols for nationals, but if he was cleanish at 4cc.
Ladies scores at USA nationals >.<
Russia is not selective too, they just inflate their own, everybody lols
Because when i look at USA nationals, not just Jason, but everybody get scores way above what they would get anywhere else.
2014 Nationals
Max Aaron - 259.19 vs 240.22 at US Classic. His best international score outside North America was 227.51 at WTT (which was also giving scores like candy)
Joshua Farris - 267.98 vs 260.01 at 4cc - couldnt find protocols for nationals, but if he was cleanish at 4cc.
Ladies scores at USA nationals >.<
Russia is not selective too, they just inflate their own, everybody lols
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
Also, Jason has received 89+ PCS from an international panel for that "terrible" programme. You must have an explanation for that, too. And it's probably one that has nothing to do with the quality of his skills. And you have yet to address the inflated national PCS for Josh & Adam?
It really does seem like if some facts don't fit in your paradigm, you just ignore them altogether?
It really does seem like if some facts don't fit in your paradigm, you just ignore them altogether?
