TEB is Cancelled

[tulosai]

visa problem aside, how to you divide them. How do you count their results, are they compete with the 2 remaining GP skaters or other GP skaters from TEB. as we all know scores from different GPs could not be compared.
Therefore, a extra long program session for all TEB skaters is the only solution. Ideally in NHK, cos will have the most time for every party to prepare.

Again, how do you propose to pay for this? By this I mean airfare for all the athletes to get to Japan, room and board for all the athletes once there, additional venue costs, and so on? Who should have to pay? and where are they going to get the money to do so?

 

[SashaJuliaSpins]

Why is it not possible to feel for the victims of Paris and at the same time, care about and support TEB, a French event?

:agree: When tragedy happens, part of coping is helping people that have been affected by the situation directly and indirectly. Let's face it, the skaters have been affected by this tragedy and I for one think it is pretentious to claim that talking about those affected makes you uncaring about the egregious nature of the incident. Take for example, parents die in a tragic accident, making plans for the children's future does not necessarily constitute not caring for the tragedy that just happened. Or better still, providing substitute teachers for classes that lost their teachers does not in any way mean that the dead teachers are being disrespected. LIFE GOES ON, it is a part of coping and dealing with tragedy. Calling people uncaring because they choose to discuss solution to the repercussion of a tragedy, in my opinion, amounts to lack of understanding. So please, let's keep discussing solution to the GP dilemma while also grieving for the senseless tragedy that happened. We are humans, we have the capacity to do both!

 

[xibsuarz]

If the skaters were to be moved to COR or NHK, wouldn't that also be unfair to the skaters that were scheduled in those events in the first place? They have lower chances of making it to the podium. Unless the skaters who were at TEB were not ranked alongside those at COR or NHK and their results were to be accounted separately

 

[yyyskate]

Again, how do you propose to pay for this? By this I mean airfare for all the athletes to get to Japan, room and board for all the athletes once there, additional venue costs, and so on? Who should have to pay? and where are they going to get the money to do so?

that is why I suggested NHK.
my reason for why NHK as I posted before

"Can we add an extra long program session at NHK for these TEB skaters (dont know is any of them will skate in NHK as well).
Japanese loves figure skating and had tons of money. a few extra skaters and one more day of competition wont hurt them much (hotels and officials will be there anyway for NHK). They will love them. and the skaters in TEB will have some time to regroup.
it could also be a special memorial for Paris tragedy. And the gala could be combined."

The logistics for all skaters are paid by GP host IIRC.

I think if do it right, this way could actually generate revenue for NHK (Japanese will pay and watch those TEB skaters, it just like they host an extra small figure skating event).

 

[cheerknithanson]

If the skaters were to be moved to COR or NHK, wouldn't that also be unfair to the skaters that were scheduled in those events in the first place? They have lower chances of making it to the podium. Unless the skaters who were at TEB were not ranked alongside those at COR or NHK and their results were to be accounts separately

I think they're talking about ranking them separately.

 

[StitchMonkey]

And these



Dear Philip, since I know you are looking in this thread, we are sorry for those that have fallen and we are sad for the people of France.

And while I personally agree with the cancelation and use of the short program places as final, people in this thread are discussing posibles paths that could be taken... cheers...

And shame on us for trying to find solutions to problems! Yes it sucks what happened, but life has to go on. What is wrong with trying to find a solution to any problem? It is not like everyone on here is screaming for the full event to take place as planned... he neglected to mention that there is a spectrum of opinions on the issue, many of those that don't want to see it canceled support alternatives (such as a closed event and/or moving it to Sunday) and show far more understanding of nuance than Phill. People should never be shamed for looking for a better solution to a problem rather than ignoring it. I don't like this quantifying of what wrong wins the "should be talked about" race. Just because something worse happened does not mean it does not still suck it was canceled. I don't like the discounting of people's feelings or the implication that finding it sad/wrong to cancel this event somehow means we are not sympathetic to the deaths.

 

[LRK]

This is a figure skating forum - obviously people will be discussing figure skating on it.

Also, I wonder he found it worthwhile to pay attention to something so trivial as a figure skating board, and what was discussed on it?

I think it far worse that he would use this opportunity to be mean, petty and malicious.

 

[desertskates]

First off, I want to say that my thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected by the tragedy in Paris yesterday :cry.
After reading through all the ideas for a solution, I just think that having a replacement event somewhere else will just be too expensive and would cause too many problems logistically.
It think the most reasonable solution is to let the short programs stand as the result, which as we know in the world of skating is not terribly fair. Or to cancel the final. In place of the final, the top skaters from the Grand Prix season could be invited to Barcelona to skate in some sort of spectator event, so they can put their programs out there again. Or they can opt to stay home and train for nationals. Just a random idea.
I do hope the skaters all make it home safely and are happy with whatever decision will be made.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Sorry, but wanting to use people's personal best as an add on to the FP?

I mean, if you want crazy ideas, I've got some : Why not use the Base Value of all the LPs to add to the SP scores?

Come on...

Trying to find one "solution" after another to get one particular skater or another on top or not, just because they did well or not in their SP, that's just madness.



I fully agree that using only the SP scores isn't fair to all the TEB participants, but you know what's not fair either? Everything that happened in Paris. One unfair situation isn't going to create fairness all around. It's terrible, but it is what it is.

As many have said, in all the other sports, results would be stopped when the event is being stopped, and that would be the end of it. That's unfair, I completely agree (I was against cancelling TEB in the first place anyway), but it's still the least unfair of all the solutions. And only the least unfair solution is an acceptable solution.

Using SP scores as TSS is far from the least unfair of all solutions. SP is worth only 1/3 of the TSS. IOW, LP is twice as important in the determination of the final placements.

I've proposed using the LP marks scored this season and believe it's fairer than using PB or just the SP. This will also not incur tie breaking issues the way using SP scores only would. Nothing will be perfect short of the actual proceeding of the event but that's impossible with or without event cancellation.

 

[yyyskate]

I think they're talking about ranking them separately.

yeah, but how do you combine the ranking from 2 GPs for a whole group of TEB skaters, you cannot compare their scores from different GPs?

 

[Daniel1998]

Can we invite all skaters to participate at the COR or NHK in a separate event, or rather, a continuation?

Maybe make one of those events three days, and have the free skates of the TEB athletes on the last day of competition, and add it with their SP scores.

Or would that be too much of a hassle to organize? I don't envy the ISU right about now.

 

[cheerknithanson]

yeah, but how do you combine the ranking from 2 GPs for a whole group of TEB skaters, you cannot compare their scores from different GPs?

I see your point.

But then again, we're all trying to think what a feasible solution would be, and there's not going to be a decision that everyone is happy with.

 

[creaturelover]

Can we invite all skaters to participate at the COR or NHK in a separate event, or rather, a continuation?

Maybe make one of those events three days, and have the free skates of the TEB athletes on the last day of competition, and add it with their SP scores.

Or would that be too much of a hassle to organize? I don't envy the ISU right about now.

issue is money and logistics

 

[Totentanz]

yeah, but how do you combine the ranking from 2 GPs for a whole group of TEB skaters, you cannot compare their scores from different GPs?

For TEB skaters: SP score from TEB + LP score from the other event -> total score and rank them

For Rostelecom or NHK skaters: seperate competition only with the original skaters assigned to that event

 

[whatif]

Can we invite all skaters to participate at the COR or NHK in a separate event, or rather, a continuation?

Maybe make one of those events three days, and have the free skates of the TEB athletes on the last day of competition, and add it with their SP scores.

Or would that be too much of a hassle to organize? I don't envy the ISU right about now.

I don't think there will be huge cost implication to splitting TEB participants between two remaining events. Some of them will be there anyway. By adding 2-4 to each event won't make it too costly and logistically difficult. However these scores of the skaters at that event shall be counted towards TEB results not the one they will be reassigned to.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Can we invite all skaters to participate at the COR or NHK in a separate event, or rather, a continuation?

Maybe make one of those events three days, and have the free skates of the TEB athletes on the last day of competition, and add it with their SP scores.

Or would that be too much of a hassle to organize? I don't envy the ISU right about now.

That might work. Cause I know in baseball (Yes I like baseball as well. Go Nats!) in a few situations, like this past season with a Nats vs. Dodgers game, if there is electrical failure, the game gets suspended and gets picked back up at another day. Usually the next.

Now, yes I know baseball and figure skating are totally different in rules and how they're played out, but I'm saying suspended games/events might be possible.

 

[StitchMonkey]

yeah, but how do you combine the ranking from 2 GPs for a whole group of TEB skaters, you cannot compare their scores from different GPs?

I think the idea is the skaters are NHK skate a SP and A FS and the scores are totaled and ranked against each other.


Then the skaters from TEB skate only a FS and the scores are added to the SP scores from TEB then they are ranked against the other skaters from TEB. Two sets of medals are then giving out to the two separate lists. Think of it like the same judges judging a novice and then junior event.

 

[Daniel1998]

I don't think there will be huge cost implication to splitting TEB participants between two remaining events. Some of them will be there anyway. By adding 2-4 to each event won't make it too costly and logistically difficult. However these scores of the skaters at that event shall be counted towards TEB results not the one they will be reassigned to.

Yes, I agree.

 

[yyyskate]

For TEB skaters: SP score from TEB + LP score from the other event -> total score and rank them

For Rostelecom or NHK skaters: seperate competition only with the original skaters assigned to that event

you still don't get me, you cannot compare a TEB skater's score happened in COR with a TEB skater's score happened in NHK.(because we cannot compare scores from different GP. cos different set of judging panels)
to have a complete extra long program session for the whole group of skaters in one event either COR or NHK is the only fair solution.
I suggest NHK, 1 money issue, 2, more time to prepare for all parties.

 

[eta]

you still don't get me, you cannot compare a TEB skater's score happened in COR with a TEB skater's score happened in NHK.(because we cannot compare scores from different GP. cos different set of judging panels)
to have a complete extra long program session for the whole group of skaters in one event either COR or NHK is the only fair solution.
I suggest NHK, 1 money issue, 2, more time to prepare for all parties.

So what about people from TEB who are already assigned to NHK?