TEB is Cancelled

[daphenaxa]

I feel sorry for those who make it to the final based only on the SP/SD results. They (some of them) will probably forever be said that they do not deserve the final (or to that effect). They absolutely have no control over what happened in any case (the terrorist attacks and/or the ISU decision) and they too lost the opportunity to prove they legitimately deserve the final. That said, I am really disappointed that I will not see Chan in the final.

Who are these skaters tho? I am not sure anybody would argue that Shoma or Gracie deserve to be in the finals given how they have skated so far in the season...
And Chan probably gonna make it anyways

 

[Layback11]

Oh, you're right, it's the new one. I hope they will not even consider to cancel it. I'm planning to visit. How egoistic of me

I hope so, too. It's just not right to do that to the skaters who have already earned a spot and were working hard and looking forward to competing.

 

[Layback11]

And, of course, this isn't the end. Whatever they decide = another 40 pages on why it isn't a good decision. Then there will be the next 10 years on GS arguing that (insert name)'s gold at the 2015 GPF really shouldn't be counted as (insert name) wasn't there.

So if Liza/Patrick/Someone else good doesn't make it because of what happened here, we'll never hear the end of it? Oh, joy.

I'm glad this situation benefits Gracie and Yulia or you might be hearing from me too.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Rip, teb 2015.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Deleted.

I tried many times to have RIP, TEB in caps but they always came up the same. I tried a brand new post in case it's a problem with my keyboard or computer. But I got the same as the above post. So it's something with GS.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I just can't imagine using only the short, I really can't.

I just keep thinking, what if this had happened back in the day, and the decision was made only on school figures. Would that have been fair? Well, that was what the short was designed to replace.

I do feel deeply sorry for Max, if that is the decision, but that is not why I think it is unfair. If FS were meant to be decided on one program, it would be decided on one program. I would rather see the results discarded altogether than based on the short.

I guess that makes me a majority of one.

The longer this goes on the more i come to this side. The SP is not "the part before half time" it is a differently structured competition - it would almost be like calling a gymnastics all around champion after they only competed on two apparatus. I actually worry using only the short could lead to more questionable judging in the future if this precedent is set. While right now judges will hold back favorites in the SP because they know they can make it up in the free i wonder if judges might be more tempted to favor the favorites now, while holding back the less favored even more after this incident. I mean did anyone expect Roberta RODEGHIERO to medal here? People scoffed at her even being selected. She gave a great SP and it was/is great to see her in third, but i wonder if some of the judges might have been less generous if they thought for a moment the SP may end up the final standings. Please note I am not saying this *should* happen, but i worry about it.

As others have said nothing is fair, but I am not sure using only the SP is the least unfair option.

 

[tulosai]

Deleted.

I tried many times to have RIP, TEB in caps but they always came up the same. I tried a brand new post in case it's a problem with my keyboard or computer. But I got the same as the above post. So it's something with GS.

Yes unfortunately your post can't be in all caps even if it's a short one. Can't count the number of times I've tried to post

GOOOO LIZA! (or other skater) only to have my post appear as: go liza

I've learned my lesson and just stopped but it is annoying.

 

[YesWay]

While right now judges will hold back favorites in the SP because they know they can make it up in the free i wonder if judges might be more tempted to favor the favorites now, while holding back the less favored even more after this incident. I mean did anyone expect Roberta RODEGHIERO to medal here?

I think such things happen occasionally, but I do not believe skaters are routinely "held back" or "favoured" as you claim.

The more I've learned about scoring, and the more I've heard commentary by actual judges and technical specialists, the more I think so. Some scoring is indeed suspect, but I just don't believe it's as common as some would have us believe.

You hold up Rodeghiero as an example, but did you actually watch her skate? Yes people got surprised, but she produced a surprisingly good skate, and it seems to me she was simply rewarded for that.

If you think the judges were being generous to her, let's hear your assessment of the protocols, the GoE awarded for each element (which GoE bullet points she hit and didn't hit), and your evaluation of her components in terms of the PCS criterias.

If you can make a case in those terms, then perhaps you can justify your claim. If not, then for me it's just unproven/unsubstantiated "hot air"... the sort that in my opinion, comprises 99.99% of all over- and under-scoring claims on Internet forums. I only ever see a handful of people justify such claims "properly", and even those rarely reach consensus...

 

[Tavi...]

For those of you who think using SP results only is unfair: Misha Ge had to withdraw from TEB due to visa problems. He has no short program score to use. He has no chance whatsoever of qualifying for the GPF. Surely that's even more unfair.

To me, some of the proposed solutions - such as adding a TEB participant's FS score from his / her last event to the SP score of TEB - are unfair to every other competitor whose results are based on two full competitions done under different conditions - different competitors, different physical / mental / emotional states, different levels of preparedness, different ice, etc.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Yes unfortunately your post can't be in all caps even if it's a short one. Can't count the number of times I've tried to post

GOOOO LIZA! (or other skater) only to have my post appear as: go liza

I've learned my lesson and just stopped but it is annoying.

Thanks for explaining this.

But it's UNFAIR!!!!!!! Those letters are supposed to be in CAPS!! I want to start a thread to discuss the unfairness of this!!!!

 

[chuckm]

What will happen is that the TEB SP standings will be manipulated using applied FS scores, and the "Medalists" will be:

Gracie, Julip and Liza Losers: Roberta, Kanako
Patrick, Shoma, Maxim Losers: Shoma, Daisuke, Denis
Tat/Max, Peng/Zhang, Evgenia/Vladimir Losers: Vanessa/Morgan, Julianne/Charlie
Piper/Paul, Maddy/Zach, Alexa/Ivan Loser: Maddy/Zach

 

[Lester]

For those of you who think using SP results only is unfair: Misha Ge had to withdraw from TEB due to visa problems. He has no short program score to use. He has no chance whatsoever of qualifying for the GPF. Surely that's even more unfair.

I've been meaning to say this since yesterday. Misha, too, did not get his chance to qualify due to a circumstance out of his control. So unfair things happen sometimes. At least some of the athletes who competed at the first day of TEB still get the chance to go to the final.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Let what happened in TEB stay in TEB.

 

[TheBladeBoys]

We posted this in Videos/Results but figured it would be relevant in this thread. Here are videos of reactions to the Paris attacks and the aftermath of the TEB cancellation announcement. A very sad, emotional day indeed.

Announcement of cancellation; moment of silence/singing of French Anthem; interview with Maé Bérénice Méité and Morgan Ciprès: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8zlqG9cd8o

Vanessa James - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgalH3eejWk

Didier Gailhaguet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXqOupgXjiQ

 

[leafygreens]

The longer this goes on the more i come to this side. The SP is not "the part before half time" it is a differently structured competition - it would almost be like calling a gymnastics all around champion after they only competed on two apparatus. I actually worry using only the short could lead to more questionable judging in the future if this precedent is set. While right now judges will hold back favorites in the SP because they know they can make it up in the free i wonder if judges might be more tempted to favor the favorites now, while holding back the less favored even more after this incident. I mean did anyone expect Roberta RODEGHIERO to medal here? People scoffed at her even being selected. She gave a great SP and it was/is great to see her in third, but i wonder if some of the judges might have been less generous if they thought for a moment the SP may end up the final standings. Please note I am not saying this *should* happen, but i worry about it.

As others have said nothing is fair, but I am not sure using only the SP is the least unfair option.

But you're not doing this for every competition, just for this ONE competition because there was an unforeseen terrorist attack. Of course it's not "fair" but it is what it is.

It's a very weird thing to criticize Roberta because she did better than the others below her. Isn't that why we have IJS, to prevent favoritism judging, to judge what was put on the ice? That is what Roberta did. The others had the same chance to put out a better SP and they didn't. Plus there's no guarantee the others would've done better in the FS. The judges aren't going to inflate SP scoring because of one unforeseen competition cancellation. That's just fear mongering. Everyone always says you can't win with the SP but you can lose with the SP. Maybe this will be a lesson to everyone that the SP counts.

How many more times must this be said? At every other GP event, a skater who has a poor short program for whatever reason - fell, did an invalid jumping pass, whatever - has the opportunity to make up for their poor short program by skating a very good long program. We've seen it a dozen times already this GP, where skaters have made up multiple positions - even gone from skating in the first group of the FS to standing on the podium - by having strong free skates after poor SPs. Equally, there is no guarantee that because someone has had a great SP, that their free skate will keep them in that position.

If this was a standalone event, it would be more understandable. But this event is part of a series and to use the SP results would make the TEB results unequal with the other events in the series. There are also ranking points on the line, and prize money.

Well they're not going to have the chance to make it up this time. There aren't many other options. It's not like anyone wanted to cancel the event. It would be the least fair, of all the options, to disregard the whole event.

I just can't imagine using only the short, I really can't.

I just keep thinking, what if this had happened back in the day, and the decision was made only on school figures. Would that have been fair? Well, that was what the short was designed to replace.

I do feel deeply sorry for Max, if that is the decision, but that is not why I think it is unfair. If FS were meant to be decided on one program, it would be decided on one program. I would rather see the results discarded altogether than based on the short.

I guess that makes me a majority of one.

Figures are completely different than skating a SP and FS. If there had been a terror attack during a competition with figures, maybe they would have took the final rankings from figures, and we would have to respect that. SP is much closer to FS than figures though.

 

[humbaba]

I mean did anyone expect Roberta RODEGHIERO to medal here? People scoffed at her even being selected.

I'm not surprised Roberta did well. She's a solid skater and pretty consistent. I don't understand why she doesn't get more respect.

 

[silverfoxes]

Does anyone know if there will there be any prize money awarded for TEB? If not, maybe those funds could offset adding extra skaters to the final somewhat.

 

[Tavi...]

How many more times must this be said? At every other GP event, a skater who has a poor short program for whatever reason - fell, did an invalid jumping pass, whatever - has the opportunity to make up for their poor short program by skating a very good long program. We've seen it a dozen times already this GP, where skaters have made up multiple positions - even gone from skating in the first group of the FS to standing on the podium - by having strong free skates after poor SPs. Equally, there is no guarantee that because someone has had a great SP, that their free skate will keep them in that position.

If this was a standalone event, it would be more understandable. But this event is part of a series and to use the SP results would make the TEB results unequal with the other events in the series. There are also ranking points on the line, and prize money.

With all due respect, Karne, while skaters frequently do make large moves one way or the other between the short and long programs, quite frequently they don't. For example, although Max made sizeable jumps in placement at 2012 4CC (from 10 to 2, 4th overall) and 2013 Skate America (6 to 2, 3d overall), more often than not over the past 3-4 seasons, his final placement overall has been pretty close to his SP placement. That's certainly been true so far this year.

I understand that it seems inequitable, and that moving up even a place or two at TEB might mean the difference between Max's qualifying or not qualifying for the GPF, and it's truly unfortunate. But simply put, the circumstances are extraordinary.

One other thing: if the ISU does indeed use TEB SP scores to award final placements, they would probably have to alter the tie breakers. Right now the first tie breaker after place is total score. What if that were changed, say, to highest SP score? Someone like Max, whose SP score at SA was quite high, would have a big advantage over someone like Jason or Patrick Chan. No solution is ideal. No solution is fair to everyone.

 

[chuckm]

I'm not surprised Roberta did well. She's a solid skater and pretty consistent. I don't understand why she doesn't get more respect.

Roberta won gold at Lombardia and was 4th at the Denkova-Staviski Challenge. But medaling in a B event isn't predictive of success in the GP: Haruka Imai took silver at the Canadian Autumn Classic but was 10th at Skate America and 9th in the SP at TEB.

 

[SashaJuliaSpins]

First time poster but long time figure skating fan. I haven't had time to read all the posts here, and maybe someone has already proposed this.... What about using the TEB SP scores for placement for top 6 GPF but also giving a "bye" to the skaters/pairs/dance teams that have already medaled in their GP events but wouldn't qualify for GPF based on TEB SP scores? The number of skaters at GPF would be increased to accommodate those allowed to compete based on the bye. I leave to others to calculate fairness/unfairness in terms of affected competitors...I'm just throwing this into the mix. But it seems to me that the skaters and public alike want to see the highest level competition at the GPF.

:thumbsup: I like this! Then they can all skate in the short program and for time sake, TOP 6 can proceed to the free skate!