TEB is Cancelled | Page 33 | Golden Skate

TEB is Cancelled

adelia said:
It's likely that the ISU will adopt the proposal to use the SP results. Mishin gave an interview last night saying so.
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He also said that if this will happen, they should cancel GPF. Everyone should be in the same conditions or GPF should be cancelled. I honestly don't know how I feel about these his words. :gaah:
 
Moria Polonius said:
That act of violence makes the whole of France suddenly unsafe, at least at the nearest time. Right now, until they figure it out and up the security sufficiently, treating the whole country as unsafe has been deemed the most logical course of action.
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This is CRAZY talk, the exact kind that allows a George W. Bush to ever be elected to office.

Arguing in favor of fear and ignorance. Sure, see where that gets the world.
 
Snow63 said:
Oh, you're right, it's the new one. I hope they will not even consider to cancel it. I'm planning to visit. How egoistic of me :(
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ISU won't cancel GPF, too much money involved.
I also think Mishin was just very upset when he said that.
 
el henry said:
I just can't imagine using only the short, I really can't.

I just keep thinking, what if this had happened back in the day, and the decision was made only on school figures. Would that have been fair? Well, that was what the short was designed to replace.

I do feel deeply sorry for Max, if that is the decision, but that is not why I think it is unfair. If FS were meant to be decided on one program, it would be decided on one program. I would rather see the results discarded altogether than based on the short.

I guess that makes me a majority of one.
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All "solutions" will be unfair.

It's a case of picking which one is the least unfair...
 
el henry said:
I just can't imagine using only the short, I really can't.

I just keep thinking, what if this had happened back in the day, and the decision was made only on school figures. Would that have been fair? Well, that was what the short was designed to replace.

I do feel deeply sorry for Max, if that is the decision, but that is not why I think it is unfair. If FS were meant to be decided on one program, it would be decided on one program. I would rather see the results discarded altogether than based on the short.

I guess that makes me a majority of one.
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This isn't a legitimate comparison. School figures and performances in the short/long programs require totally different sets of skills, and it was exceptionally more common to excel in one and fare poorly in the other. Yes it is true that some skaters prefer the length/structure of one program to another, but at least we are comparing apples to slightly larger apples rather than apples and oranges.

I don't understand why some of the posters keep harping about how unfair it is to only use the short program. That would imply that something about this competition was inherently unequal, when there was literally nothing unequal across the board. These skaters had the same ice, the same judges, the same audience, the same atmosphere, the same lack of a free program. Liza and Chan not making it to the GPF because they performed poorly is not "unfair"; it is because they performed poorly. It really is that simple. Life happens, and they will move on, and so will we.
 
AC96 said:
I don't understand why some of the posters keep harping about how unfair it is to only use the short program. That would imply that something about this competition was inherently unequal, when there was literally nothing unequal across the board. These skaters had the same ice, the same judges, the same audience, the same atmosphere, the same lack of a free program. Liza and Chan not making it to the GPF because they performed poorly is not "unfair"; it is because they performed poorly. It really is that simple. Life happens, and they will move on, and so will we.
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How many more times must this be said? At every other GP event, a skater who has a poor short program for whatever reason - fell, did an invalid jumping pass, whatever - has the opportunity to make up for their poor short program by skating a very good long program. We've seen it a dozen times already this GP, where skaters have made up multiple positions - even gone from skating in the first group of the FS to standing on the podium - by having strong free skates after poor SPs. Equally, there is no guarantee that because someone has had a great SP, that their free skate will keep them in that position.

If this was a standalone event, it would be more understandable. But this event is part of a series and to use the SP results would make the TEB results unequal with the other events in the series. There are also ranking points on the line, and prize money.
 
karne said:
But it's unfair to the skaters at TEB - ALL OF THEM. As was pointed out in the other thread, there have been many cases already this GP series where the final results get a radical shakeup after the FS. It's not the skaters' fault that the competition was cancelled. Why should they be robbed of an opportunity made available to every other skater? The playing field will no longer be level if the SP results are made to stand from TEB.
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Just because there have been radical changes in the standings at other events means nothing about what would have hypothetically happened at TEB. You can cite Skate Canada as an example, and I can cite a random competition like the 2010-2011 GPF when the final standings literally remained exactly the same as the ones from the SP, with Miki placing 5th despite winning the long program by a 5 point margin. The chance that a drastic shift would have occurred cannot be taken for granted; there is also the chance that nothing changed.

Of course any reasonable skating fan, me included, would bet money that Tukt would have made a comeback and placed higher than Roberta. But then again, what reasonable skating fan would have predicted Tukt ever needing to "come back" at all? That she would be 5th and Roberta 3rd? The chance that Roberta would have placed higher was infinitesimally small, and yet, it happened. So chances and probabilities and hypotheticals are unreliable in a sport as unpredictable as figure skating and shouldn't be entertained just because your fav is in trouble. Perhaps in physics or economics or political science, we would rely on the hypothetical, but this is a sport, a competition. What ultimately matters is what HAPPENED, not what would/could have been.
 
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TontoK said:
I have a difficult time seeing why this is hard for some to understand.

The competition was halted midway through. No one's fault. The SD/SP standings will constitute the final result. Nothing else to be done. They're not going to be able to reschedule it... elite skaters' schedules aren't made week-to-week. They're mapped out far in advance.

They're certainly not going to take the most absurd suggestion of factoring in scores that weren't even skated at the event. They're also not going to start taking more people into GPF because they skated too poorly in the SP/SD to earn enough points to qualify.

I suspect there wouldn't be so much drama on the board about it except some people's favorites are now in position to miss the GPF. I can understand. I'm a Max fan, and he's not going to make it.

My disappointment is tempered by the comfort that I'm not one of those 100+ families who will be burying someone killed by these savages.
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We all are mindful that the loss of a loved one is devastating and is on a completely different level from any potential loss of opportunity from TEB for a skater.

That said, I have a difficult time seeing why it is hard for you to understand the following:
If the ISU had been willing to rush to judgment that only the TEB SP/SD results should be used for GPF qualification, it already could/should have announced its final decision.
I agree that the rescheduling scenarios in this thread would be logistical nightmares.
But for the ISU, it apparently is not a no-brainer to simply use the TEB SP/SD results. Contrary to your premature pronouncement of "Nothing else to be done," the ISU apparently wants to take a little time to actually THINK about whether something else should be done -- such as taking other factors into consideration besides the TEB SP/SD results or increasing the number of GPF entries.​
 
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CaroLiza_fan said:
Whoa! This thread was 12 pages long the last time I got a chance to look at it! Now it's 43!!! :jaw:
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We've been busy speculating. complaining about the unfairness of just using the SP results, and arguing about what the ISU should do.

So essentially, business as usual :biggrin:
 
AC96 said:
Just because there have been radical changes in the standings at other events means nothing about what would have hypothetically happened at TEB. You can cite Skate Canada as an example, and I can cite a random competition like the 2010-2011 GPF when the final standings literally remained exactly the same as the ones from the SP, with Miki placing 5th despite winning the long program by a 5 point margin. The chance that a drastic shift would have occurred cannot be taken for granted; there is also the chance that nothing changed.

Of course any reasonable skating fan, me included, would bet money that Tukt would have made a comeback and placed higher than Roberta. But then again, what reasonable skating fan would have predicted Tukt ever needing to "come back" at all? That she would be 5th and Roberta 3rd? The chance that Roberta would have placed higher was infinitesimally small, and yet, it happened. So chances and probabilities and hypotheticals are unreliable in a sport as unpredictable as figure skating and shouldn't be entertained just because your fav is in trouble. Perhaps in physics or economics or political science, we would rely on the hypothetical, but this is a sport, a competition. What ultimately matters is what HAPPENED, not what would/could have been.
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And "what HAPPENED" is that TEB had to be cancelled before the competition was complete.

As your own post explains at length, it is completely unpredictable as to whether the leaders after the SP/SD would have maintained the same placements after the FS/FD.

So why take for granted that they deserve ranking points for GPF qualification based only on the SPs/SDs? It would make no more sense than some of the other ideas in this thread.

It's up to the ISU to decide. Not us.
 
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peg said:
We've been busy speculating. complaining about the unfairness of just using the SP results, and arguing about what the ISU should do.

So essentially, business as usual :biggrin:
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And, of course, this isn't the end. Whatever they decide = another 40 pages on why it isn't a good decision. ;) Then there will be the next 10 years on GS arguing that (insert name)'s gold at the 2015 GPF really shouldn't be counted as (insert name) wasn't there. :p
 
peg said:
We've been busy speculating. complaining about the unfairness of just using the SP results, and arguing about what the ISU should do.

So essentially, business as usual :biggrin:
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:laugh:

TheGrandSophy said:
And, of course, this isn't the end. Whatever they decide = another 40 pages on why it isn't a good decision. ;) Then there will be the next 10 years on GS arguing that (insert name)'s gold at the 2015 GPF really shouldn't be counted as (insert name) wasn't there. :p
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:laugh:

What you have both said is so true!

CaroLiza_fan
 
Is using just the SP results fair? Of course not. We're past the point of looking for a fair solution, we're looking for the solution that is the least unfair and also logistically feasible. Using hypothetical scores for the FS doesn't work since you can never know how someone will perform on a given day. Maybe Max, Patrick, Liza, and T/M would have pulled up in the FS, or maybe they would have bombed that too. Holding a replacement competition just isn't feasible for the time frame. And honestly, GPF doesn't even matter that much. Its unfortunate, but it's not like they're missing out on the Olympics. Denis has never even gotten close to qualifying and he still has two world medals and an Olympic medal. I don't envy the ISU having to sort this out, there's no perfect solution that will make everyone happy.
 
I feel sorry for those who make it to the final based only on the SP/SD results. They (some of them) will probably forever be said that they do not deserve the final (or to that effect). They absolutely have no control over what happened in any case (the terrorist attacks and/or the ISU decision) and they too lost the opportunity to prove they legitimately deserve the final. That said, I am really disappointed that I will not see Chan in the final.
 
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grantrf98 said:
It is fair to assume that ALL posters in this thread have shared their prayers and condolences for those affected in Paris yesterday. So after skimming through every page, I am appalled by those who are shaming and criticizing the posts concerning solutions for TEB and the GPF. Isn't the main purpose of the GS Forum to discuss the sport of Figure Skating? Especially in this thread titled, "TEB is cancelled?" There is another thread titled "Paris Shootings and Explosions," where posters could discuss what they think and how they feel about this horrible tragedy, without mentioning figure skating. I, who mourns all those affected by terrorism, would greatly appreciate the readers of this post not to ridicule me for suggesting a solution to the cancellation of TEB instead of posting about the evil of these terrorist attacks.
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too bad these kinda posts dont get as many likes as the ones shaming GS fans of being FS fans & caring about this trivial thing as fairness or wait for it - 'just' sport! that may actually be HUGE part of these sportsmen's lives for which they train 24/7, spend sleepless nights thinking about the presentation, get horrible injuries (hell think of Yuzu, Lena Berezhnaya story etc.) & lets be honest spend their best years of their life.
Still for some its just insignificant & should be just brushed off as nothing :slink::sad4:

& is thinking of fairness & GPF = being heartless then idk what to say:palmf:

thanks karne for your posts. totally agree. What has being a fan of someone to do with thinking of alternatives of this situation. I made peace with Liza & T/M skip the finals but I still sad for everyone who could, even Chan that Im not a fan of.
 
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