2016 ISU Championships Predictions Game

[CaroLiza_fan]

Since there are no TV schedule posts or Predictions to make out this week, I thought now would be a good time to start the ball rolling for the ISU Championships Predictions Game.


Rounds

The first thing we have to decide is which championships to include in the Game.

Normally, there are 5 rounds to the ISU Championships Predictions Game:

• The 3 annual “major” Senior Championships (Europeans, 4 Continents, Senior Worlds)
• A major Senior Championship that is not held annually (Olympics, Universiade)
• A team competition (WTT, Olympic Team Event)

However, there are no extra major Senior Championships this season. The next Universiade isn’t until January 2017, while the next Olympics isn’t until February 2018.

So, we have a dilemma:

• Do we just make do with having 4 rounds?
• Or do we add in one, or even both, of the major Junior Championships that are being held this year?

Here are the details (taken from Wikipedia) for the 2 major Junior Championships in question:

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]Date
[/TD]
[TD]Event
[/TD]
[TD]Type
[/TD]
[TD]Level
[/TD]
[TD]Disc.
[/TD]
[TD]Location
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[SUP]th[/SUP] – 21[SUP]st[/SUP] February 2016
[/TD]
[TD]Youth Olympics
[/TD]
[TD]Other int.
[/TD]
[TD]Junior
[/TD]
[TD]All
[/TD]
[TD]Lillehammer, Norway
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[SUP]th[/SUP] – 20[SUP]th[/SUP] March 2016
[/TD]
[TD]World Junior Championships
[/TD]
[TD]ISU Champ.
[/TD]
[TD]Junior
[/TD]
[TD]All
[/TD]
[TD]Debrecen, Hungary
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The thing is, not everybody follows Junior skating. So, it would be unfair on those members who want to do well in the overall Game, but who don’t want to predict on Junior competitions.

On the other hand, last season, there was quite a big demand to make predictions on Junior Worlds.

Personally, if we were to include these Junior Championships in the ISU Championships Predictions Game, I would prefer if they did not count towards the overall score.

However, rather than have them as non-scoring rounds, what we could do is have them count towards a Junior version of the Predictions Game

So, here is my proposal for the make-up of the Games:


ISU Championships Predictions Game

Round 1: European Championships (25[SUP]th[/SUP] – 31[SUP]st[/SUP] January 2016)
Round 2: Four Continents Championships (16[SUP]th[/SUP] – 21[SUP]st[/SUP] February 2016)
Round 3: World Championships (28[SUP]th[/SUP] March – 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] April 2016)
Round 4: Team Challenge Cup (22[SUP]nd[/SUP] – 24[SUP]th[/SUP] April 2015)


ISU Junior Championships Predictions Game

Round 1: Youth Olympics (12[SUP]th[/SUP] – 21[SUP]st[/SUP] February 2016)
Round 2: World Junior Championships (14[SUP]th[/SUP] – 20[SUP]th[/SUP] March 2016)


Rules

Since they have worked so well in the past, I would prefer to keep the rules exactly the same, but with the changes that we had for this year’s National Championships Predictions Game included.

Here is last season’s ISU Championships Predictions Game Rules thread:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?53724

And here is this season’s National Championships Predictions Game Rules thread:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?57597


Scorers

Now for the most important matter to be sorted. You literally cannot have a Predictions Game without scorers.

Having 2 sets of scorers alternating rounds worked well for the ISU Game last season, and for the GP and Nationals Games this season. So, I think we should use that model again.

Of course, I would be more than happy for the scorers for this season’s National Championships Predictions Game to stay on. The only thing is, the American and Canadian Championships are being held at the same time, so all scorers will be in action that week. And the European Championships start 3 days after they finish.

So, if anybody else would like to volunteer to score, please make yourself known in this thread.


Well, that is all I can think of at the moment.

Let me know what you think.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

thank you for starting this!!! As you said, many people do not follow juniors extensively. I am one of these culprits... so I would keep it to the 3 majors... or 4 if people really care about wtt but that's just me... and i will abide by the majority

edit... read too fast long post so i see that there is a will to split seniors and juniors into two... that's great as it makes everyone happy

 

[Layback11]

Sounds like a great plan! I look forward to participating in both.

 

[matmuh]

I would once again like to volunteer as scorer
About including junior competition, i dont mind if they are, not everyone follows every discipline but they still make predictions of those disciplines, its kinda similar to me but i know not everyone will agree, but as you suggested i would still want them to be included some how

 

[rosacotton]

Sound good to me! And I would like to volunteer as a scorer again please.

 

[tulosai]

I can help score any event other than team challenge cup. Any discipline is fine too, but I prefer not men since I don't follow them

 

[Hyena]

This all sounds good to me. I'm happy the junior events are being included and scored in some way (and wouldn't really mind if they were part of the main game, but others disagree and that's fine ).

I'd like to volunteer to score again!

 

[Jombi]

Happy that juniors will be included! If you need more scorers count me in!

 

[ice coverage]

... if people really care about wtt ...

I served as the self-appointed Team Challenge Cup "police" in another thread, so it is only fair for me to do so here (once again with good intentions).

I know you meant no harm, but I think that conflating the names of TCC and WTT runs the risk of confusing people who are unaware that TCC's format will be very different from WTT's.

Seems to me that the difference esp. is worth underlining in this thread ... as perhaps separate predictions will be made for the SP and FS for the TCC men and ladies??

 

[4everchan]

aie aie... my bad... good to have a cop with us i mean TCC i never liked those team events... but as I said, whatever format is chosen, I will oblige... thanks for cracking the whip

I served as the self-appointed Team Challenge Cup "police" in another thread, so it is only fair for me to do so here (once again with good intentions).

I know you meant no harm, but I think that conflating the names of TCC and WTT runs the risk of confusing people who are unaware that TCC's format will be very different from WTT's.

Seems to me that the difference esp. is worth underlining in this thread ... as perhaps separate predictions will be made for the SP and FS for the TCC men and ladies??

 

[invisiblespiral]

Count me in! I think YOG and Junior Worlds are good ideas, and I don't think I can score Euros, because I'm also doing American ladies...

(TCC sounds interesting as well. Can people predict the teams? Also, if I can choose a discipline, dance.)

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I have a confession to make. I have already made out a draft of the rules thread!

Before anybody accuses me of jumping the gun and just being all dictatorial, it wasn't like that. When I was making the amendments to the Nationals Game rules, I was worried that I would forget to put them into the ISU Game rules as well. So, I started making out that thread as well.

It was only when I got to the section about rounds that I realised that there were fewer major championships this year. And, hence, realised that there was a need for a consultation this year.

Anyway, since people are interested in how the TCC is going to work, here is the first draft of what I wrote for it:

Team Challenge Cup

The final round of the ISU Championships Predictions Game this year is the Team Challenge Cup. Unlike the Olympic Team Event, we will know who is competing in advance.

Consequently, we will be able to make predictions for each category as per the normal rules.

However, we will ALSO be predicting on the overall Team result.​

As you can probably tell, it is just an edited version of what I wrote for the WTT last year. All references to countries have been taken out because we are dealing with continental teams, and the bit about "scoring all 6 teams" has been taken out because there are only 3 teams in the TCC!

I have to be honest, I am not totally clear on the rules for the TCC. With all the GP's and then Nationals going on, I wasn't able to keep a good track on what was being posted in Golden's TCC thread, and it has now become rather substantial and confusing.

I did have a look at the announcement PDF, but I have to admit, the way it is worded is even more confusing.

The writers of the PDF seem more obsessed on describing how the event is being scored rather than describing what is actually going to happen on the ice. I am assuming that there are going to be proper Short Programmes and Free Skates, but it doesn't make this clear.

:hpull:

---

Anyway, I am so glad that you like my ideas. And you may be surprised to know that the idea for a Junior Game only came to me when I was in the middle of writing the OP for this thread. I was actually planning on suggesting having the 2 Junior competitions as non-scoring rounds within the ISU Game.

So, in light of this overwhelmingly positive response, I think it is safe to say that it is now concrete that the separate Junior Game is going ahead.

And thank you for those that have volunteered to score. It will be great to have you on board (or, should I say "back on board", seeing as all the volunteers so far are returning scorers! )

CaroLiza_fan

 

[ice coverage]

... I am assuming that there are going to be proper Short Programmes and Free Skates ...

No SP for Pairs, and no SD for Ice Dance.

And the total scores for Men and Ladies are meaningless in terms of TCC itself.
That's why I would think that for Men and Ladies, you might want to consider having separate predictions for the SP and FS.

The SPs for Men and Ladies are basically like a completely separate competition from the free skates for all disciplines, IMO.

The SPs for Men and Ladies have zero bearing on which Team wins the overall Team competition.
The prize money for the SPs also is separate from the prize money for the overall Team competition.
The top Man and top Lady in the SPs will be recognized as SP champions and will receive additional prize money.

ETA (on Jan 4), correction:

The top Man and top Lady in the SPs will be recognized -- but not "as SP champions" -- and will receive additional prize money.
Sorry that my memory of the Announcement was imprecise.
http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...16/04/invitational-challenge-cup-invitational​

Just my two cents.
Plenty of time for you to figure out what you want to do.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

No SP for Pairs, and no SD for Ice Dance.

And the total scores for Men and Ladies are meaningless in terms of TCC itself.
That's why I would think that for Men and Ladies, you might want to consider having separate predictions for the SP and FS.

The SPs for Men and Ladies are basically like a completely separate competition from the free skates for all disciplines, IMO.

The SPs for Men and Ladies have zero bearing on which Team wins the overall Team competition.
The prize money for the SPs also is separate from the prize money for the overall Team competition.
The top Man and top Lady in the SPs will be recognized as SP champions and will receive additional prize money.

Just my two cents.
Plenty of time for you to figure out what you want to do.

WHY ARE THEY MAKING THINGS SO COMPLICATED???!!!

They're going to make a total hash of it, just like they did with the Olympic Team Event.

Like, what was wrong with just using the WTT as a template, and tweeking it so that there were 3 members to each team, to make up for there being less teams.

Simples! :agree:

Oh, this is going to make it a lot more complicated to work the Predictions Game around.

And thank you for the suggestion for a format. At the moment, that does seem like the best idea. But, as you say, at least it is at the end of the season, so there is plenty of time to weigh up all the possibilities.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

WHY ARE THEY MAKING THINGS SO COMPLICATED???!!!

They're going to make a total hash of it, just like they did with the Olympic Team Event.

Like, what was wrong with just using the WTT as a template, and tweeking it so that there were 3 members to each team, to make up for there being less teams.

Simples! :agree:

Oh, this is going to make it a lot more complicated to work the Predictions Game around.

And thank you for the suggestion for a format. At the moment, that does seem like the best idea. But, as you say, at least it is at the end of the season, so there is plenty of time to weigh up all the possibilities.

CaroLiza_fan

i'm also weirded out

why not have 3 games

4cc+euro+wc

juniors

tcc

i think it's self-explanatory why i'd suggest that...it's just easier for casual players to have a game featuring one pool of skaters (seniors vs juniors) and 1 set of rules (isu championships vs tcc weird experimental festival )

just my 2 cents

 

[Snow63]

Oh, Gordon! You're awesome as always
I wish I can help with scoring again. But family matters, you know? I'm afraid that if I'll volunteer and will not come here in a couple of weeks, everybody will hate me

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Oh, Gordon! You're awesome as always
I wish I can help with scoring again. But family matters, you know? I'm afraid that if I'll volunteer and will not come here in a couple of weeks, everybody will hate me

No problem, Sergey. I understand.

On a more general note, your comment reminded me of something I probably should have added.

As Snow63 and any of the other past scorers will vouch for, when allocating who is scoring each round, I always do my best to accommodate the availability and needs of all the scorers.

So, if anybody out there would like to volunteer but can't make the whole Game, don't let that put you off. You would still be more than welcome.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[ice coverage]

... The top Man and top Lady in the SPs will be recognized as SP champions and will receive additional prize money. ...

I have edited my post above to make a small correction:

The top Man and top Lady in the SPs will be recognized -- but not "as SP champions" -- and will receive additional prize money.
Sorry that my memory of the Announcement was imprecise.

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...16/04/invitational-challenge-cup-invitational​

Don't want to lead CL_fan or anyone else astray.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Just bumping this up as Europeans start in a few days time, and I was worrying about the number of volunteers to score.

Of course, the rounds are more spread out than they were during the GP Game and the Nationals Game, so we could get away with having fewer scorers. After all, that is how we used to do it. But, I would prefer it there was more, as that would allow more flexibility in the case of hurdles cropping up unexpectedly.

CaroLiza_fan