2015-16 State of Russian Ladies skating

[silverlake22]

All three have been skating poorly, so don't blame it on the level of depth.

"Poorly" is relative though. They aren't skating to the best of their huge potential, sure, but the level of skating shown by Tuk and Sot at Nationals would easily be on the World Team in any other country. Even in Japan or the US, I think one of them would make it, since I don't feel US and Japan have 4 age-eligible skaters who are as strong as Medvedeva, Radionova, Pogorilaya, and Sotskova all skating cleanly (which all of them did at Russian Nationals), more like 2 or 3 at most.

 

[silverlake22]

Anna's record may be spotty, but that seems to just be her norm, not something puberty related. With regards to Adelina winning everything as a jr really isn't that relevant, as before the Olympics (with the exception of Lipnitskaia) she was competing against skaters she hadn't competed against as a jr (it would be like dragging Hawayek and Baker now). As to her record after her break, as I stated before, I think the reasons behind it whirl physical are not related to puberty.

I just think overly simplistic to boil it down to pre-pubesant= good results, post pubesant= poor(er) results.

Anna didn't start competing internationally until she was 14 and already in the midst of puberty, so I do think, in some ways, it probably had an effect on her performances. Oddly enough, she was most consistent during the 2013-2014 season when she was growing a lot. I know at the time, people assumed Anna was done growing, but if you look at videos and pictures from this season compared to 2013-2014, Anna is visibly a couple inches taller and more mature physically. I mean, it's not as dramatic a transformation as someone like Tuk or Julia, and she doesn't look to have put on much weight, but I was surprised, she has changed quite a bit. She has always looked tall, but at TEB in 2013 you'll see she's a little shorter than Adelina and the same height as Ashley, and now she's taller than both Adelina and Ashley by about 1-2 inches.

I also think, competition nerves and mindset may effect people differently. For someone like Anna or Gracie Gold who weren't superstars at a young age and weren't familiar with the pressures of top level competitions until a relatively "older"age, I think it may come as more of a shock and learning how to compete and deal with the pressure may take longer to develop. In contrast, someone like Radionova has been the best since she was a little kid, is probably used to the attention and pressure of competition, and that level of familiarity and comfort in such situations may be contributing to her ability to say competitive and more relaxed in competition even as her body is going through major changes.

 

[moriel]

Anna didn't start competing internationally until she was 14 and already in the midst of puberty, so I do think, in some ways, it probably had an effect on her performances. Oddly enough, she was most consistent during the 2013-2014 season when she was growing a lot. I know at the time, people assumed Anna was done growing, but if you look at videos and pictures from this season compared to 2013-2014, Anna is visibly a couple inches taller and more mature physically. I mean, it's not as dramatic a transformation as someone like Tuk or Julia, and she doesn't look to have put on much weight, but I was surprised, she has changed quite a bit. She has always looked tall, but at TEB in 2013 you'll see she's a little shorter than Adelina and the same height as Ashley, and now she's taller than both Adelina and Ashley by about 1-2 inches.

I also think, competition nerves and mindset may effect people differently. For someone like Anna or Gracie Gold who weren't superstars at a young age and weren't familiar with the pressures of top level competitions until a relatively "older"age, I think it may come as more of a shock and learning how to compete and deal with the pressure may take longer to develop. In contrast, someone like Radionova has been the best since she was a little kid, is probably used to the attention and pressure of competition, and that level of familiarity and comfort in such situations may be contributing to her ability to say competitive and more relaxed in competition even as her body is going through major changes.

Also, mindset depends big time of one's prsonality. You can train, yes, but it will never change entirely.
There are some folks that naturally have nerves of steel, and others that freak out when something goes wrong. The second case can be trained to not behave like that, but still will have issues from time to time.

 

[Ophelia]

"Poorly" is relative though. They aren't skating to the best of their huge potential, sure, but the level of skating shown by Tuk and Sot at Nationals would easily be on the World Team in any other country. Even in Japan or the US, I think one of them would make it, since I don't feel US and Japan have 4 age-eligible skaters who are as strong as Medvedeva, Radionova, Pogorilaya, and Sotskova all skating cleanly (which all of them did at Russian Nationals), more like 2 or 3 at most.

One of them might've snuck into 3rd in US, but neither would've podiumed in Japan.

 

[winky97]

One of them might've snuck into 3rd in US, but neither would've podiumed in Japan.

I don't think either of them would have snuck into third in the US without the other US girls faltering with those performances.

 

[Ophelia]

^Well there ya go. Point proven.

 

[fcolo]

I don't want to start some bad trolling about eating disorders and habits but I'm a medical student and I've passed my nutrition exam yesterday and I think coaches should REALLY pay attention to what their pupil do eat... Especially for girls around age of puberty cuz as you know is a process that starts only if a certain % of body fat is reached (so that a particular hormone called Leptin can be produced) and there is no way that skaters very thin like Evgenia can be considered healthly by a medical point of view, even for a prepubescent girl. I'm not saying that she is anorexic (is not respectful in any case to imply something like that) but i think taht eating properly from the early days can help girls to go through physical maturation in a more gradually way than maybe hitting it very hard after some holidays or an injury. i think Pogo is a great example of what I mean =) heatlh really comes first, being underweight at that age can drive to serious complications in the next future, especially for the bones
I hope nobody feels disturbed from my post..
and also technique is really important too..

 

[surimi]

I don't want to start some bad trolling about eating disorders and habits but I'm a medical student and I've passed my nutrition exam yesterday and I think coaches should REALLY pay attention to what their pupil do eat... and there is no way that skaters very thin like Evgenia can be considered healthly by a medical point of view, even for a prepubescent girl... being underweight at that age can drive to serious complications in the next future, especially for the bones
I hope nobody feels disturbed from my post..

While I am not disturbed, I disagree with your post except that health comes first and coaches/teams should keep an eye on their students' nutrition. While I've never done any sports on a professional level, I have always, pre-puberty and post-, been thin. And I don't mean just thin, I mean skeletally thin. And believe me, I have long tired of proving to people that I am, in fact, completely healthy, yes, even by my doctors' standards, and that I have never dieted. Some people are just born very thin, so it doesn't make sense to me for not just you but sadly, the majortiy of people, to make sweeping generalizations that just because someone is way too thin to your eyes, they must be unhealthy. Unless you know the person well, there's no way you can know how much and what they eat, and I find it somewhat disrespectful, even with a medical background, to state a person is or is not healthy just by looking at them. What is it they say about one shoe not fitting all? I'm content to watch all body types in skating - for instance, I appreciate seeing Evgenia as well as Anna, Liza or Alena on the ice - and I feel that diversity should be promoted. But not at the expense of making health assumptions about thin skaters.

 

[Tutto]

While I am not disturbed, I disagree with your post except that health comes first and coaches/teams should keep an eye on their students' nutrition. While I've never done any sports on a professional level, I have always, pre-puberty and post-, been thin. And I don't mean just thin, I mean skeletally thin. And believe me, I have long tired of proving to people that I am, in fact, completely healthy, yes, even by my doctors' standards, and that I have never dieted. Some people are just born very thin, so it doesn't make sense to me for not just you but sadly, the majortiy of people, to make sweeping generalizations that just because someone is way too thin to your eyes, they must be unhealthy. Unless you know the person well, there's no way you can know how much and what they eat, and I find it somewhat disrespectful, even with a medical background, to state a person is or is not healthy just by looking at them. What is it they say about one shoe not fitting all? I'm content to watch all body types in skating - for instance, I appreciate seeing Evgenia as well as Anna, Liza or Alena on the ice - and I feel that diversity should be promoted. But not at the expense of making health assumptions about thin skaters.

I am too against generalizations as a rule but I think Fcolo's concern ^ is justifiable in that we know only too well that diets have been used by some athletes & their coaching teams in order to delay/slow down puberty . Yulia, is the good example, and what is worrying that Evgenia is Eteri's student too so if some of us have concerns it is reasonable. But you can be perfectly right and Evgenia is just naturally very thin. Only future can tell.

 

[Tutto]

Lisa changed yet again her short program for a waltz:

http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/1036203148.html

I am more curious about her new ex program which Mishin says is set specially for him to a feisty music from the times of his youth! Why I feel a bit alarmed...

 

[silverlake22]

I don't want to start some bad trolling about eating disorders and habits but I'm a medical student and I've passed my nutrition exam yesterday and I think coaches should REALLY pay attention to what their pupil do eat... Especially for girls around age of puberty cuz as you know is a process that starts only if a certain % of body fat is reached (so that a particular hormone called Leptin can be produced) and there is no way that skaters very thin like Evgenia can be considered healthly by a medical point of view, even for a prepubescent girl. I'm not saying that she is anorexic (is not respectful in any case to imply something like that) but i think taht eating properly from the early days can help girls to go through physical maturation in a more gradually way than maybe hitting it very hard after some holidays or an injury. i think Pogo is a great example of what I mean =) heatlh really comes first, being underweight at that age can drive to serious complications in the next future, especially for the bones
I hope nobody feels disturbed from my post..
and also technique is really important too..

While someone like Evgenia is obviously underweight from a medical point of view, there are full grown women in the sport and outside of it who are the same size. Evgenia said on periscope she was 40 kg and 157 cm, Yuko Kavaguti is 34 and she has the same height as Evgenia but weighs 38 kilos, even less than Evgenia. There are a lot of pairs girls who are in their older teens and twenties that also have similar builds, as do people who are not elite athletes.

My mom had 5 kids and eats like a normal person and at 5'3" she's weighed under 100 lbs/45 kg for most of her life, and is still around that mark now at almost 60. Though she's always been technically underweight, she still went through puberty normally, was able to have kids, and has had very little health problems in her life. Some of this stuff does come down to genetics and eating habits, so really, just because someone is very thin, it doesn't automatically make them unhealthy. My cousin is 15 and she has the same build as Evgenia and about the same height and weight and she actually got her period when she was 12 and even skinnier than she is now. She has some food allergies but eats like any other 15 year old girl, and considering she hit puberty 3 years ago, 90 lbs at 5'3" may be her filled out adult weight, potentially. This stuff depends on so many factors.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Evgenia looks slim but healthy to me. I agree with silverlake that weight alone, within a reasonable range, cannot indicate eating disorders or unhealthy habits.

 

[surimi]

I think Fcolo's concern ^ is justifiable in that we know only too well that diets have been used by some athletes & their coaching teams in order to delay/slow down puberty .

Oh, I don't have any problems with fans' concerns. But statements like 'skater XY is way too thin so there's no way she is healthy' - that's what I do have a problem with, and that's what I reacted to, because unless one knows the skater personally, one cannot know for sure. I'm a firm believer in the 'presumption of innocence' in this case, because I know how that feels to be suspected of being unhealthy and having eating disorders by complete strangers.

On a different note, I was surprised to hear about Liza's change of SP. I'll keep my fingers crossed for her. I'm not sure how it will work out for her, this being the second change within one season, but I'm impressed by her determination to experiment and find a program that fits her like last year's ones. I can't wait to see the waltz.

 

[moriel]

Evgenia looks slim but healthy to me. It just seems to be her natural build.
As a side note, she performs greatly which most likely means she is healthy and feels well.

 

[Amei]

Evgenia looks slim but healthy to me. It just seems to be her natural build.
As a side note, she performs greatly which most likely means she is healthy and feels well.

So did Lipnitskaia 2 years ago. I'm not saying Lipnitskaia is in any way fat, but after she hit 16 things changed. And all the rumors that prior to the Olympics that her meals involved powder drinks instead of actual meals.

 

[moriel]

So did Lipnitskaia 2 years ago. I'm not saying Lipnitskaia is in any way fat, but after she hit 16 things changed. And all the rumors that prior to the Olympics that her meals involved powder drinks instead of actual meals.

Well, most girls change around a certain edge. I personally don't see nothing wrong with Lip, at least in appearence.
She was a girl, then she grew up and filled in. As it happened also with myself around 15-16 years

Kind of... Dunno... I have a feeling folks look for stuff where isn't. It is hard to eat not nearly enough and do lots of training and competing and win. The girls look healthy, active and happy.
Still people just can't get over it somehow.

 

[hippomoomin]

The fact is more naturally thin ladies become top skaters, and all top ladies are either thin or super thin. Sasha Cohen had been very thin till a number of years after she retired. Even when people were talking about Elena looked anorexia last year, I didn't feel she was. I don't think anyone who is unfit can do a decent LP with half of the jumps in the second half. On the other hand, other skaters who look seemingly healthy by size, such as Zijun Li, don't have the stamina to do jumps in the LP, are more worrisome. And by the way, didn't Yuna mention she could not eat as much bread as she wanted in order to control her weight?

 

[silverlake22]

So did Lipnitskaia 2 years ago. I'm not saying Lipnitskaia is in any way fat, but after she hit 16 things changed. And all the rumors that prior to the Olympics that her meals involved powder drinks instead of actual meals.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but trying to delay puberty when a girl is 15 during an Olympic season is sort of understandable, Evgenia will be 18 at the next Olympics, so trying to prevent puberty for that long seems less likely and more problematic health wise. It's different situations and so I tend to think Eteri understands this and is probably not trying to do the same thing with Evgenia. Plus, she's grown up a lot the past season or two already, so it would seem that the goal is to adjust to changes as they happen rather than put them off completely until after 2018. It is possible to deal with them and still do well, look at Elena and Anna as examples, or Polina Edmunds or even Tsurskaya who despite being only 14 has grown a lot already.

I personally do not think Evgenia looks particularly young or unhealthy, yeah she has skinny legs but she always has, otherwise she just looks like a petite and slender 15-16 year old girl. A lot of girls don't start to fill out for a few years after they hit puberty, I was really thin in highschool too. Unless Evgenia suddenly starts showing stamina issues/melts down consistently in competition or media reports come out mentioning she's ill/malnourished, I'm going to assume she's taking care of herself from a health standpoint. Girl clearly has a lot of stamina with all that backloading. Also, keep in mind Elizabet Tursynbaeva is about the same age, just 3 months younger than Evgenia but looks WAY younger. And I don't have any reason to believe Elizabet is ill or anorexic either so, yeah.

As for Julia she was probably going to change to her current shape/size anyways. If the timing of the Olympics was different, then maybe the changes wouldn't have been so sudden but you never really know, both Liza and Adelina grew up suddenly over the course of one season and it wasn't during the Olympic season so the same argument can't be made. Genetics, nutrition, and endocrinology are all very fascinating and complex subjects, so I prefer to have the mindset to assume everything is fine unless there's viable evidence suggesting it isn't. Just my $0.02.

 

[fcolo]

I took evgenia like an example not beacuse she seems particularly young (she is not) but beacuse she is so this. . Well my point wasn't trying to say she is anorexic but only focus aborto the impirtance of eating in a proper way to go trough physical growth in a more armonic way.. I obviously hope everybody is ok =)

 

[Sugarpova]

I'm not sure how it will work out for her, this being the second change within one season

It may not be for this season though