2016 Team Challenge Cup - Gen Info/Pre-chat

[Tyranid]

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm

Wow i completely forgot all about web archives. Thank you very much!

If all fails we can use arithmetic like golden411 suggested (thanks too!).

 

[4everchan]

I do agree that your idea would be beneficial in engaging fans, MM.

Reminds me of when Kori Ade was nominated for an "inspiration" award after Sochi, and running tallies of votes for each nominee were displayed on the website of the company offering the award. At least a couple of Kori's fans on GS kept very close tabs on the horse race, and were doing a lot of cheerleading here on GS, esp. at certain times when it seemed that one or two other nominees were getting votes at a faster rate than Kori. (In the end, Kori did win one of the two awards, IIRC.)

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"Left you cold," eh? [Just noticing your usage of the much-discussed phrase.]

I would be happy if the WTT format were changed to give equal weight to all disciplines.

But for me, awareness of the existing imbalance among disciplines has not prevented me from enjoying WTT, because I am a sucker for the team concept in general. The skaters at WTT in 2012, 2013, and 2015 seemed to enjoy the experience, and I enjoyed watching them enjoy it.
(I wasn't paying attention to skating in 2009, so I missed the first WTT.)

---

Many thanks, NaVi.

you are funny. i didn't take part as much in that left you cold discussion but I would say that there is a big difference in the meaning of that expression when directed at the design of an event versus a specific skater or performance. that's where it's another story altogether, eh ?

 

[silverfoxes]

hehe japan open is very different since it's an invitational event, and if it's a bit biased in some ways, at the same time, kuddos to japan for organizing it and getting fans to see freshly retired and still popular skaters compete alongside current skaters... i think that's why people don't complain as much as it's not proposed as a real "team championship" event... and yes... we do have time to kill

This is an invitational too. Try reading the very first post in the thread.

 

[4everchan]

keep reading invitational not based on current world leaders... very different... it is an event for fans and promotion of figure skating in japan and/or promotion of japanese figure skating.

WTT or WTC imply other things.

This is an invitational too.

 

[silverfoxes]

keep reading invitational not based on current world leaders... very different... it is an event for fans and promotion of figure skating in japan and/or promotion of japanese figure skating.

WTT or WTC imply other things.

And do you complain on behalf of all the skaters that get shut out of WTT because they don't come from strong federations? There is no ideal format. I don't understand the OTT whining about this competition.

 

[4everchan]

nope... unfortunately, even if I enjoy watching skaters from weaker federations, that's not my issue with the format of these team events. I have already explained what I dislike about them feel free to scroll back or not hasta la vista

And do you complain on behalf of all the skaters that get shut out of WTT because they don't come from strong federations? There is no ideal format. I don't understand the OTT whining about this competition.

 

[Skater Boy]

For those who love skating WTT is another chance to see skating. It does kind of evoke memories when skating was in its golden years and there were more world titles than one could imagine. It seemed the slapped the word WORLD on every even (pro ams). Arguably having corporate sponsors in the title of world or national champion makes I sound it is the world event hosed by whoaever company. A sense of less legitimacy. And at least it is Team Asia, Europe and NA. Otherwise I am sure here would be more convoluted rules to help Team Japan since it is really about promoting skating for them. Their pairs and dance are weak and if you got rid of obvious imports even more of a huge abyss. Still weaker federations- doesn't Mexico have some skaters still? Mind you they would not come close to the americans or Canadians at this point.

 

[Mathman]

then don't make a team event if you want to make it into a singles event because the host country doesn't have pairs/dance teams... that's why I dislike it. All countries have weaknesses... why is it that the country that has two weak disciplines still can win it all?

I am not really alarmed with the current format. Not many countries can field two strong dance teams and two strong pairs teams, but many countries (or at least six) can scrounge up two men and two ladies.

The compromise of two men, two ladies, one pairs team and one dance team comprising a national team of eight athletes -- that seems OK to me. What would be the point of throwing in a struggling second string pairs team to make fun of, just to satisfy our notion of symmetry?

 

[shyne]

TCC is a mix of WTT and Japan Open

 

[Mathman]

I'm betting dollars to donuts that Radionova would place ahead of Medvedeva in a fan vote.

Patrick Chan is one of the most popular and beloved male skaters of the past decade. The comparatively weak American men's field doesn't stand a chance. Once Rippon finishes ~10th place at Worlds next month, it will be even more obvious.

That's what will be interesting about this popularity contest. If the majority of voters are from U.S. and Japan, is Radionova better- or worse-liked than Medvedeva? Will the vote occur after the world championship or before? Will the results of worlds sway voters one way or the other?

Chan is certainly a better skater than any of the Americans, but is he more popular with the voters?

Over the last 6 years Chan was beloved by many and excoriated by many others (who piled their dissatisfaction with the IJS squarely on Patrick's head).

Max Aaron has a certain fan base. Larger than Adam Rippon's. Or is it?

I bet the event organizers would like nothing better than spark a fan war. (More likely, though, no one will care one way of the other. )

 

[charmblade]

A quick question (And I apologize in advance if this has already been answered elsewhere): what happen if a fan-chosen skater doesn't want to participate? Can they decline the invitation? Some of the skaters may be tired after Worlds and ready to end the season. I would assume the team captains would check with all skaters before nominating them for the fan vote and make sure they would accept if they are chosen. But do we know this for sure?

 

[4everchan]

i never said i wished for two pair teams and two dance teams from every country

i just said that all four disciplines should be valued the same.

I am not really alarmed with the current format. Not many countries can field two strong dance teams and two strong pairs teams, but many countries (or at least six) can scrounge up two men and two ladies.

The compromise of two men, two ladies, one pairs team and one dance team comprising a national team of eight athletes -- that seems OK to me. What would be the point of throwing in a struggling second string pairs team to make fun of, just to satisfy our notion of symmetry?

 

[Mathman]

i never said i wished for two pair teams and two dance teams from every country

i just said that all four disciplines should be valued the same.

? They are. ? You get 12 points for first, 11 points for second, and so on down in each of the four disciplines.

The only difference is that only 6 pairs and dance teams compete, while 12 men and 12 women compete.

 

[4everchan]

so how is that even ?

? They are. ? You get 12 points for first, 11 points for second, and so on down in each of the four disciplines.

The only difference is that only 6 pairs and dance teams compete, while 12 men and 12 women compete.

 

[Mathman]

i never said i wished for two pair teams and two dance teams from every country

The only difference is that only 6 pairs and dance teams compete, while 12 men and 12 women compete.

so how is that even ?

.

 

[4everchan]

mathman... there's a little confusion.

I am referring to what I wished for. That all 4 disciplines get reworked into a score out of 100.

So if the organizers want to have double the single skaters, they could have each of these 12 worth 50 while each pair/dance team is worth 100.

On top of that, it would take into consideration the margin between different skaters or teams... For instance, the top dance teams can be very close but be far far far ahead of the lower teams while the middle range ladies are all almost scoring the same... So it would be fairer that way... That's why I was suggesting mathematical intervention. Funny how you mathman didn't get my point

 

[ice coverage]

That's what will be interesting about this popularity contest. If the majority of voters are from U.S. and Japan, is Radionova better- or worse-liked than Medvedeva? Will the vote occur after the world championship or before? Will the results of worlds sway voters one way or the other?

Chan is certainly a better skater than any of the Americans, but is he more popular with the voters?

Over the last 6 years Chan was beloved by many and excoriated by many others (who piled their dissatisfaction with the IJS squarely on Patrick's head).

Max Aaron has a certain fan base. Larger than Adam Rippon's. Or is it?

I bet the event organizers would like nothing better than spark a fan war. (More likely, though, no one will care one way of the other. )

I agree that the fan voting should not be assumed to be predictable. Anecdotal, but telling, IMO:

Who woulda thunk that Scimeca/Knierim would win the 2015 USFS Readers' Choice award?
That Kayne/O'Shea would place second in the voting?
And that Jason would place "only" third?
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015/08/07/141767902/scimeca-knierim-win-readers-choice-award

Fans could vote as many times as they wanted for any skater(s) in the top five in all disciplines at 2015 US Nats + the top five US synchro teams.
So Ashley, Gracie, Adam, Josh, the Shibs were among the popular skaters who placed outside the top three.

As for the timing of the TCC voting, the official announcement says:

A pool of up to five (5) Ladies and five (5) Men will be nominated/announced by March 15, 2016 by the organizer from those Skaters who are entered in the 2016 ISU World Figure Skating Championships. Online fan voting will begin with the announcement of the pool of Skaters and conclude one day after the 2016 ISU World Championships (i.e., April 4, 2016).
http://www.isu.org/media/1038/2016-team-challenge-cup-announcement-final_16-02-19_revised.pdf (p. 4)​

Mon April 4 is the day after the Worlds gala.
But ... the TCC website says that voting "will conclude one week after the 2016 World Championships."

http://www.teamchallengecup.com/athletes​

BTW, I hope I have not given anyone the impression that I love every single TCC rule.
For instance, I wish Mirai were eligible for the fan voting.
But given that this year is the inaugural edition of TCC, I am willing to give the rules a chance and to see how they play out.

---

A quick question (And I apologize in advance if this has already been answered elsewhere): what happen if a fan-chosen skater doesn't want to participate? Can they decline the invitation? Some of the skaters may be tired after Worlds and ready to end the season. I would assume the team captains would check with all skaters before nominating them for the fan vote and make sure they would accept if they are chosen. But do we know this for sure?

Per the announcement:

The top Lady and Man vote getter from each team will be invited and have three (3) business days to accept. If the top vote getter declines the invitation, then the next top vote getter will be invited. Invitations will continue in the same manner and the team will be completed once the final Singles Skaters are confirmed. ​

 

[StitchMonkey]

A quick question (And I apologize in advance if this has already been answered elsewhere): what happen if a fan-chosen skater doesn't want to participate? Can they decline the invitation? Some of the skaters may be tired after Worlds and ready to end the season. I would assume the team captains would check with all skaters before nominating them for the fan vote and make sure they would accept if they are chosen. But do we know this for sure?

It is in the rules, but they have something like 3 days (something pretty short) to decline.

 

[sabinfire]

I'm not sure there will be anything interesting to pull out of the fake fan vote. If just one of the NA ladies declines/WD, there will only be a maximum of 2 eligible skaters to choose from. Also, the team captains have the power to manipulate the nominees to influence the voting from the get-go.

Also, I would assume that some fans will choose a 'team' they will be cheering on to win -- it's a team competition, only natural.

For example: Fan X wants to see Team NA win. When they go to vote, they might say -- "I like Rippon the most out of the available options, but Patrick Chan would be the superior skater in this competition, so I will vote for Chan as he will most likely be the best chance for Team NA to win."

Then, when Fan X moves to the Team Europe vote: "Medvedeva would probably be the highest scoring skater for Team Europe, but her tano's are annoying and she's overscored in general. I prefer Radionova, and although she may not place as high as Medvedeva, I'm rooting for Team NA anyway. I'm voting for Radionova."

 

[charmblade]

Thanks golden and Stitch, it's good to see there is a provision written in for that situation.