2016 Team Challenge Cup - Gen Info/Pre-chat

[Mathman]

^ I think they probably wanted to have a guarantee as early as possible that some good skaters would actually show up. By going with rankings as of January 1st and requiring acceptances in February, they have time to get their publicity out.

 

[silverfoxes]

I much prefer the World team Trophy format more then this competition. They go by the current season and the countries top skaters for that season usually go and compete. This event basically has the skaters who were highly ranked last season so we get skaters who had bad seasons this year like Nam, Tuk and Voronov and not someone like Medvedeva or the Shibs. Skating changes so much from year to year that this competition will feel like it's a year behind with what's actually happening for the current season that's ending.

Evgenia can still go if the fans vote for her; and Nam, Sergei, and Liza were a little disappointing, but certainly not horrible, this season (especially Liza, if one disregards Nats). Besides, there are other top skaters invited who could never qualify for the WTT, like Denis Ten and Javier. It's impossible to have everyone's favorites there, but there is also the possibility that C/B could decline and the Shibs go anyway.

 

[Mathman]

Evgenia can still go if the fans vote for her;...

The fan vote will be interesting for sure. Since this is U.S. production, is it reasonable to expect that the majority of voters will be from the U.S.? Or will a more figure-skatig conscious country like Japan jump in. Mirai could be the extra North American lady with fan support from both the U.S. and Japan.

For European lady, there is a possibility that Julia has more fans world-wide than Evgenia, especially if a lot of casual fans vote.

 

[ice coverage]

The fan vote will be interesting for sure. Since this is U.S. production, is it reasonable to expect that the majority of voters will be from the U.S.? Or will a more figure-skatig conscious country like Japan jump in. Mirai could be the extra North American lady with fan support from both the U.S. and Japan.

For European lady, there is a possibility that Julia has more fans world-wide than Evgenia, especially if a lot of casual fans vote.

Only skaters competing at Worlds are eligible to be nominated for the fan voting.

So Mirai is not eligible ... unless Ashley, Polina, or Gracie were to withdraw from Worlds in time for Mirai to go instead.

And I take it that it is extremely unlikely that Russia will send Yulia to Worlds.

 

[sabinfire]

Only skaters competing at Worlds are eligible to be nominated for the fan voting.

With Worlds being held in the USA just 3 weeks prior, I don't understand the point of this 'rule'. I'd rather have the selections opened up to a variety of skaters that I hadn't just seen two weekends earlier.

I'm not sure I'll be attending this event. Too much travel, expensive tickets for only 2 days, and a very small selection of skaters. The format of TCC seems a little odd to me and I'm worried it may not live up to expectations.

 

[ice coverage]

With Worlds being held in the USA just 3 weeks prior, I don't understand the point of this 'rule'. I'd rather have the selections opened up to a variety of skaters that I hadn't just seen two weekends earlier. ...

I can think of two possible reasons for the requirement:

(1) For the sake of people like Jammers, who prefer to see the best skaters of the current season, such as Medvedeva.

(2) Fan voting does not end until after Worlds ... so without the rule, Skater X who has not competed since Nationals could be voted in - and perhaps Skater X's body and mind would not be in competition mode the same way they would be if Skater X had competed at Worlds. If voted in, Skater X would have only two weeks or so to prep for TCC.

 

[sabinfire]

(1) For the sake of people like Jammers, who prefer to see the best skaters of the current season, such as Medvedeva.

I'm betting dollars to donuts that Radionova would place ahead of Medvedeva in a fan vote.

 

[LRK]

I'm hoping that the skaters at TCC who will be missing Worlds' - Liza, Jason, Nam, Sergei - will really have a fire in them to go out there and really perform! This is a low-pressure event, so I hope they will all go out there and have fun and entertain the crowd.

It may be wishful thinking on my part, granted - but that is what I'd love to see.

 

[ice coverage]

I'm betting dollars to donuts that Radionova would place ahead of Medvedeva in a fan vote.

I was using Medvedeva as an example from the post by Jammers, who was drawing a contrast to Tukt.

Medvedeva and Radionova both are apples who have had better seasons than oranges such as Tukt and Lipnitskaya.

The fan vote increases the likelihood that some TCC entries will be apples.

 

[sabinfire]

I was using Medvedeva as an example from the post by Jammers, who was drawing a contrast to Tukt.

Medvedeva and Radionova both are apples who have had better seasons than oranges such as Tukt and Lipnitskaya.

The fan vote increases the likelihood that some TCC entries will be apples.

I thought the initial selection based on ISU World Standings was to ensure apples?

It seems the fans have little say here in the 'fan vote'.

How about the countries who aren't sending their 'oranges' to Worlds, like the American ladies? You've got two choices for your 'fan vote': Wagner or Edmunds. Take your time to consider all your options.

 

[ice coverage]

I thought the initial selection based on ISU World Standings was to ensure apples?

It seems the fans have little say here in the 'fan vote'.

How about the countries who aren't sending their 'oranges' to Worlds, like the American ladies? You've got two choices for your 'fan vote': Wagner or Edmunds. Take your time to consider all your options.

If apples = skaters who have had very good results this season, then ISU World Standings (based on the past two seasons + this season) do not guarantee apples.

And as we all know, World Standings are affected by the number of events at which a skater competed.

Some skaters invited on the basis of ISU World Standings are apples: Hanyu and Fernandez, for example.
Others are oranges: Tukt, Nam, Jason, for example.

This year Kristi can nominate as many as three ladies for the Team North America fan voting: Ashley, Polina, and Alaine.
Not unthinkable that Alaine could have an advantage ... if the U.S. vote gets split btwn Ashley and Polina.

 

[sabinfire]

This year Kristi can nominate as many as three North American ladies for fan voting: Ashley, Polina, and Alaine.
Not unthinkable that Alaine could have an advantage ... if the U.S. vote gets split btwn Ashley and Polina.

I just pulled up the official TCC website.

http://www.teamchallengecup.com/athletes
"Selection Process: The final singles athletes (ladies and men) for each team will be determined by a fan vote. Up to five skaters (both ladies and men) will be nominated by the Team Captains from those skaters who are entered in the 2016 ISU World Figure Skating Championships."

Not sure what they mean by "up to five"? Won't NA have less than 5 selections? And the team captain (Yamaguchi) won't be 'nominating' those skaters, as the selection pool will already be decided for them based upon the fact there aren't enough eligible skaters to be selected in the first place. Nice.

 

[ice coverage]

I just pulled up the official TCC website.

http://www.teamchallengecup.com/athletes
"Selection Process: The final singles athletes (ladies and men) for each team will be determined by a fan vote. Up to five skaters (both ladies and men) will be nominated by the Team Captains from those skaters who are entered in the 2016 ISU World Figure Skating Championships."

Not sure what they mean by "up to five"? Won't NA have less than 5 selections? And the team captain (Yamaguchi) won't be 'nominating' those skaters, as the selection pool will already be decided for them based upon the fact there aren't enough eligible skaters to be selected in the first place. Nice.

Yes, Team North America will have fewer options than five, but Team Asia and Team Europe will not.

And I believe (although Mathman previously has disagreed with me) that "up to five" means that in order to make the voting more interesting, Kristi hypothetically could -- for example -- decide to nominate only Patrick and one American man (instead of all three: Adam, Max, and Grant).

I do agree with Mathman that some of the fan voting could be very unpredictable:
The Team Asia captain could nominate Shoma, Han, Boyang, Misha, and one Korean man, for example. Would not be a slam-dunk for anyone, IMHO.

 

[sabinfire]

Reality called, Yamaguchi won't be nominating only one American. And Patrick Chan will be going to TCC, not an American man.

Limiting the options even further from already dreadfully limited options certainly does not make things 'more interesting.'

 

[StitchMonkey]

Something tells me that in future they will change world championship to "ISU Championship" which would open things up a decent amount. I have to say i almost think they should just cheat and add this change this year. I can see the want for some limits, and for training purposes as has been brought up - but allowing for 4CC, Europeans and Junior Worlds seems like a fair compromise which would open it up to a few more interesting choices... especially in North America.

 

[ice coverage]

Reality called, Yamaguchi won't be nominating only one American. And Patrick Chan will be going to TCC, not an American man.

Limiting the options even further from already dreadfully limited options certainly does not make things 'more interesting.'

Agree to disagree about this whole event.

You're entitled to your pessimism about anything and everything related to it, but I don't share it.

[I love Patrick, and would be happy for him to go to TCC, but given how much criticism he has received in a myriad of GS threads, I don't agree that he is a slam-dunk. YMMV.
Adam IMO is far less polarizing than Patrick. Patrick vs. Adam would be a more interesting vote to me than Patrick vs. Adam vs. Max vs. Grant. YMMV.]

ETA:

Eeeek, I forgot about Liam :luv17:, who is one of my favorites. (Sorry, Liam.)
Regardless, I think that Patrick vs. Adam would be a more interesting vote than Patrick vs. Liam vs. Adam vs. Max. vs. Grant.​

 

[sabinfire]

You're entitled to your pessimism about anything and everything related to it, but I don't share it.

[I love Patrick, and would be happy for him to go to TCC, but given how much criticism he has received in a myriad of GS threads, I don't agree that he is a slam-dunk. YMMV.
Adam IMO is far less polarizing than Patrick. Patrick vs. Adam would be a more interesting vote to me than Patrick vs. Adam vs. Max vs. Grant. YMMV.]

That's not pessimism. Patrick Chan is one of the most popular and beloved male skaters of the past decade. The comparatively weak American men's field doesn't stand a chance. Once Rippon finishes ~10th place at Worlds next month, it will be even more obvious.

It's always possible that USFS could pull a Bush v. Gore and 'find' enough votes to get in who they want, but I sincerely doubt it.

 

[ice coverage]

That's not pessimism. Patrick Chan is one of the most popular and beloved male skaters of the past decade. The comparatively weak American men's field doesn't stand a chance. Once Rippon finishes ~10th place at Worlds next month, it will be even more obvious.

It's always possible that USFS could pull a Bush v. Gore and 'find' enough votes to get in who they want, but I sincerely doubt it.

To clarify:
As I said above, I would be happy for Patrick to win the fan vote for Team North America.
So I do not consider your opinion that he will win the fan vote to be an example of your pessimism.

[As an aside:
You must be reading different GS threads than I am.
I agree that Patrick has many fans.
He clearly also has plenty of non-fans on GS, who are big thorns in the sides of his fans (as some of his fans discussed at length in the Four Continents thread, for example).
Esp. if the vote is just Canadian champ Patrick vs. U.S. champ Adam going head to head without the other three North American men, it would not be unthinkable IMO for Adam to win. That is why just Patrick vs. Adam would be more interesting to me than a vote among all five North American men.]

Anyway ... IMO, your overall tone about TCC is pessimistic. Your opinion seems to be that the voting is bound to be un-interesting and that the entire event is bound to be unworthy of anyone's attention.

For me, TCC is something new, so I am curious to see what the voting and the comp are like, and am willing to give everything a chance.

Really don't want to waste your time or mine continuing this conversation. Agree to disagree, as I said above.

 

[4everchan]

I agree with you golden... Patrick has little chance of winning a fan vote if the vote isn't split between 5 skaters.

I am not sure I like the format of this event anyways... It's sort of weird. A lot of Olympic sports are doing mixed team events nowadays, for instance, Luge is doing a relay event...even skiing does it... from all these sports, I think figure skating has the best shot at making a successful mixed team event but by making such complicated rules that clearly do not give the same weight to all four disciplines, it just confuses fans...

I will be very curious to see how many votes are cast. That will be the highlight of the competition for me.

 

[LadyB]

I think every skater/team who wants to/is injury-free to participate should put their names forward and fans should then decide outright for their respective teams, with substitutes in case someone gets injured. We haven't had Worlds yet and talking about TCC. Given the past competitions, skaters have the habit to withdraw with injuries or if they deem a particular comp is not prestigious enough to risk their performance in other, more valued events, e.g. an after-season show with big names...and a bit of money. Anyway, I will acquaint myself with the TCC rules now, while I first and foremost stay excited about Worlds.